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Old 03-23-2011, 6:06pm   #21
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I'd like to see a graph on this one ... response to Cantors' *19th Century neoclassical economics* spiel and pander at Stanford today on *GOP Cut & Grow* economics ..


You'll never see any graphs for proof
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Old 03-24-2011, 9:42am   #22
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I'd like to see a graph on this one ... response to Cantors' *19th Century neoclassical economics* spiel and pander at Stanford today on *GOP Cut & Grow* economics ..


Could you post the logic behind those stances? I'm really curious what kind of creative math they are using to support that.
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Old 03-24-2011, 10:02am   #23
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Could you post the logic behind those stances? I'm really curious what kind of creative math they are using to support that.
These are the *Lies* coming from the entire right-wing for job creation and stimulus of America ... specifically the Tea Party who want to eliminate Govt. for the sole purpose of destroying govt. even further and to the place that their is absolutely no recovery or *establishment of govt.* in the future ...

The last time this *19th Century neo-classical economic adventurism* was perpetuated was during the Gilded Ages of the Robber Barons circa early 1900's (see child labor laws) ... until the 1929 Crash and First Great Depression ...

I never saw so many criminally insane congressional conservatives looking to be dragged out of office, so fast, for absolutely no reason other than to garnish the right-wing fanatic extremist vote who cling to every utterance of Beckerhead & Rushbo .... and where the wealthiest simply kick-back, pay Rove for blatant lie commercial ads (See SCOTUS ruling on campaigns) and hope the sheeple fall for it ...
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Old 03-24-2011, 10:05am   #24
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Could you post the logic behind those stances? that.
Apparently not.
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Old 03-24-2011, 10:20am   #25
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These are the *Lies* coming from the entire right-wing for job creation and stimulus of America ... specifically the Tea Party who want to eliminate Govt. for the sole purpose of destroying govt. even further and to the place that their is absolutely no recovery or *establishment of govt.* in the future ...

The last time this *19th Century neo-classical economic adventurism* was perpetuated was during the Gilded Ages of the Robber Barons circa early 1900's (see child labor laws) ... until the 1929 Crash and First Great Depression ...

I never saw so many criminally insane congressional conservatives looking to be dragged out of office, so fast, for absolutely no reason other than to garnish the right-wing fanatic extremist vote who cling to every utterance of Beckerhead & Rushbo .... and where the wealthiest simply kick-back, pay Rove for blatant lie commercial ads (See SCOTUS ruling on campaigns) and hope the sheeple fall for it ...
Okay, I understand your stance, but where are the numbers to back this up.

I want proof (either way).

How does government create prosperity and jobs? Where does that money come from?

I'm also curious where you heard they were rolling back all labor laws to the point where my niece (who is 2) will be working in the sweat shop in 5 years.
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Old 03-24-2011, 10:28am   #26
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Okay, I understand your stance, but where are the numbers to back this up.

I want proof (either way).

How does government create prosperity and jobs? Where does that money come from?

I'm also curious where you heard they were rolling back all labor laws to the point where my niece (who is 2) will be working in the sweat shop in 5 years.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/#42238783
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Old 03-24-2011, 10:35am   #27
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I know it's petty, but I want to smack the guy for mispronouncing Occam's Razor.
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Old 03-24-2011, 4:16pm   #28
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Okay, I'm getting a chance to really think about the video, and what I'm seeing is the idea that somehow, through taxing and spending and government jobs, we're creating wealth (according to the individuals in that video). I don't see government spending as a way to create wealth, rather it's a way to transfer it, since it offers services rather than innovates new technologies and develops new markets. The only real areas where it *might* accomplish that is through the funding in NSF and NIH, and even then, the investment is rather small comparatively.

The idea of forcing big business to spend the money or encouraging them to is ludicrous. If there is anything that has been shown forth by government, their ability to control how businesses operate successfully is an absolute and abject failure. Governments are subject to the rule of the market, so when they try to mess with it, it doesn't work. This is the source of crony capitalism, which means that businesses will get in bed with politicians for the short term, because it will make them money, but then they will get out as soon as it stops serving their immediate needs.

The whole idea of comparing tax breaks for big business to 1984 has to be the craziest damn thing I've ever heard. 1984 = big oppressive government, where the idea that Cantor had at the beginning of the video is to decrease the size of government. Now if they will actually do that is yet to be seen, but the initial idea that Chris and Robert had was just nuts.

The idea that somehow letting this government funding continue and will stimulate the economy is a shell game. Yeah, it might work for a little while, but it won't last. It's smoke and mirrors and will only serve for a short time and will not sustain continued growth. Why? Because in it's very essence it is wealth transfer, and not creation. It will just be another bubble. Such short sighted thinking is stupid. Period.

Discussing basic mathematics of economics and comparing it to a religion is a disservice to any points Matthews is trying to make. It weakens it as a red herring. People are underwater in their houses = so what in my book. It's only money lost if you actually sell your house, or if you try to borrow against it for some reason. Sometimes investments go badly, and if you can't deal with that, than capitalism is clearly not your game.

Last edited by Entropy; 03-24-2011 at 4:27pm.
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Old 03-24-2011, 4:41pm   #29
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Discussing basic mathematics of economics and comparing it to a religion is a disservice to any points Matthews is trying to make.

It weakens it as a red herring.

People are underwater in their houses = so what in my book.

It's only money lost if you actually sell your house, or if you try to borrow against it for some reason.

Sometimes investments go badly, and if you can't deal with that, than capitalism is clearly not your game.
That's it ?

This is your response to the GOP/Tea Party *grand* job creation and taking America back through War on Women by eliminating the IRS who they also want to police women so to arrest women who want the right to choice ?
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Old 03-24-2011, 5:35pm   #30
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That's it ?

This is your response to the GOP/Tea Party *grand* job creation and taking America back through War on Women by eliminating the IRS who they also want to police women so to arrest women who want the right to choice ?


What are you talking about?

I was just responding to the video you posted.
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Old 03-24-2011, 5:47pm   #31
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What are you talking about?

I was just responding to the video you posted.
Here's what you said ...

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Discussing basic mathematics of economics and comparing it to a religion is a disservice to any points Matthews is trying to make.

This is exactly the point ... when you voted the GOP/Tea Party in on jobs creation ... (or the Dems lack of due to GOP filibustering on every stimulus issue for the last 2 years ...) .. you got baffled with BS because now the GOP/Tea Party says you voted them in on *conservative core values* ...

Eliminating Abortion rights and make the IRS police women while eliminating the IRS is *Conservative (Taliban) Religion* as the main economic theme thus far ...

Time to stop playing dumb on VBPR&C ...


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Old 03-24-2011, 6:24pm   #32
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Here's what you said ...




This is exactly the point ... when you voted the GOP/Tea Party in on jobs creation ... (or the Dems lack of due to GOP filibustering on every stimulus issue for the last 2 years ...) .. you got baffled with BS because now the GOP/Tea Party says you voted them in on *conservative core values* ...

Eliminating Abortion rights and make the IRS police women while eliminating the IRS is *Conservative (Taliban) Religion* as the main economic theme thus far ...

Time to stop playing dumb on VBPR&C ...


Do not confuse me with the religious right, I have nothing to do with them.

I vote for economic liberty to the full extent, and I find any sort of attack on personal liberty abhorrent.

If you find it necessary to paint with a broad brush, so be it. But to assume that I am one of their ilk is a critical mistake on your part.

I understand your disgust, as in the voting booth we must choose between someone robbing our pocket book or robbing our basic ability to make the choices we desire socially. A terrible choice, but clearly one that divides us.

I have chosen to go economically, and hoping that those I vote for will leave me alone socially. A vain hope as you point out...
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Old 03-24-2011, 6:36pm   #33
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Do not confuse me with the religious right, I have nothing to do with them.

I vote for economic liberty to the full extent, and I find any sort of attack on personal liberty abhorrent.

If you find it necessary to paint with a broad brush, so be it. But to assume that I am one of their ilk is a critical mistake on your part.

I understand your disgust, as in the voting booth we must choose between someone robbing our pocket book or robbing our basic ability to make the choices we desire socially. A terrible choice, but clearly one that divides us.

I have chosen to go economically, and hoping that those I vote for will leave me alone socially. A vain hope as you point out...
There is no middle of the road ... (despite that Libertarian Bill Daniels thinks he is ... ) ... you're either an Obama socialist/communist/national socialist fascist or a GOP/Tea Party socialist/communist/national socialist fascist ...


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Old 03-24-2011, 6:37pm   #34
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There is no middle of the road ... (despite that Libertarian Bill Daniels thinks he is ... ) ... you're either an Obama socialist/communist/national socialist fascist or a GOP/Tea Party socialist/communist/national socialist fascist ...


I think you are incorrect. That is my opinion...
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Old 03-24-2011, 6:46pm   #35
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There is no middle of the road ... (despite that Libertarian Bill Daniels thinks he is ... ) ... you're either an Obama socialist/communist/national socialist fascist or a GOP/Tea Party socialist/communist/national socialist fascist ...


I will be in that middle of the road, and I will do my best to convince those around me.

At one point in history we had to have a king...
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Old 03-24-2011, 6:56pm   #36
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I think you are incorrect. That is my opinion...
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I will be in that middle of the road, and I will do my best to convince those around me.

At one point in history we had to have a king...
The only way out of this one is to not vote ...
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Old 03-24-2011, 7:00pm   #37
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The only way out of this one is to not vote ...
So stay home, we got you covered...
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Old 03-24-2011, 7:42pm   #38
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What are you talking about?
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Old 03-24-2011, 7:55pm   #39
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So stay home, we got you covered...
That will work just fine
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:28pm   #40
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The only way out of this one is to not vote ...
NOW you understand the frustrations I feel as a voter,

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