The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

For at least the tenth time, what new law or regulation would prevent that? The Odometer Disclosure form is mandated by the government for this very reason. If people choose not to read it that's on them. No additional law or form will change that.

I can't even figure out what you're arguing for or against any more as your argument keeps changing.

There is no law from stopping that. I agree with you. I just brought this up to document cases from my experience with used car dealers. Obviously, I didn't make it to doing the paperwork after I found that the mileage on the car was fraudulent. This doesn't mean that other methods of misleading can't be stopped. I understand that you won't be able to stop all misleading and fraud but at least it can be reduced.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

There is no law from stopping that. I agree with you. I just brought this up to document cases from my experience with used car dealers. Obviously, I didn't make it to doing the paperwork after I found that the mileage on the car was fraudulent. This doesn't mean that other methods of misleading can't be stopped. I understand that you won't be able to stop all misleading and fraud but at least it can be reduced.

Okay, we're making progress. What "other methods of misleading" need to be stopped, and what new law (be specific) will stop it"

I think you keep arguing that some people are dishonest. I agree with that, but there is no law you can pass that will make dishonest people suddenly change. If that were the case we wouldn't need jails or police. Trying to regulate honesty and ethics doesn't work, it just costs money and feels good to some people.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Never said that anybody stops a customer from reading. That's usually not the reason why they don't read it. It's often to save time or lazyness. I personally read virtually every line of what I'm signing.

Great. Stop acting like that is the responsibility of anybody other than the person signing the paperwork.

It is the dealer's responsibility to provide factual information. It's not the dealer's responsibility to somehow force people to read it and it sure as shit is not the government's responsibility.

[sublime1996525]

Fisker is making huge cuts on the Ocean. Now is the time to buy….
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a6...le-bankruptcy/

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by sublime1996525

Fisher is making huge cuts on the Ocean. Now is the time to buy….

...an orphaned car whose manufacturer is about to go out of business and thus stop producing replacement parts.

Better hope nothing ever breaks and you never get into an accident.

* Fisker

[MadInNc]

.

[jw38]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Every time I traded a car, someone looked at it. I'm pretty sure that they also ran some kind of car check/carfax on it.
As for the axle issue. It is a known issue on older Model X that was fixed with the 2022 refresh. As for road noise, I only got a ride in an older Model X many years ago, and I don't recall any noise. My 2022 Model X is very quiet, even at higher speed.. All you hear is the some wind noise.. No tire or motor noise. I usually travel on the fastest route, so, no issues with chargers.
I wonder if your friend had the factory tires. Going with certain tires can increase sound level. The factory tires are designed to be silent.

They look at them and run checks on them because you look untrustworthy. After all, you do drive a Tesla.

Big deal that it was fixed with the refresh. Five sets of front CV joints in 84k miles absolutely sucks, and even though Tesla knows it's a design flaw, the cost of the repair, at $2000 each time, is on the customer. Oh yeah, the "beta" self-driving crap that my friend paid for still doesn't work. Does he get a refund? Nope.

Fuck Tesla...and FUCK JOE BIDEN!

[roadpilot]

Originally Posted by jw38

They look at them and run checks on them because you look untrustworthy. After all, you do drive a Tesla.

Big deal that it was fixed with the refresh. Five sets of front CV joints in 84k miles absolutely sucks, and even though Tesla knows it's a design flaw, the cost of the repair, at $2000 each time, is on the customer. Oh yeah, the "beta" self-driving crap that my friend paid for still doesn't work. Does he get a refund? Nope.

Fuck Tesla...and FUCK JOE BIDEN!

My thread was cancelled at CF for my statement.
Since joe biden became President(?) I use a small/little b
when refering to him. He is nor worth a capital B.
I think you should do the same. He is a little b.

[sublime1996525]

Originally Posted by dvarapala

...an orphaned car whose manufacturer is about to go out of business and thus stop producing replacement parts.

Better hope nothing ever breaks and you never get into an accident.

* Fisker

Stupid autocorrect. And I agree! It is kind of a bummer though because I do think it's a good looking EV.

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by roadpilot

My thread was cancelled at CF for my statement.
Since joe biden became President(?) I use a small/little b
when refering to him. He is nor worth a capital B.
I think you should do the same. He is a little b.

Kindly move the political commentary to the PR&C section. Thank you.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

1) require ads for a vehicle to have a price
2) that price can't have any conditional discounts taken out of. Available discounts with eligibility criteria should be listed in the ad
3) the price can have discounts taken out (like factory rebate) that every buyer can get.
4) any dealer add ons have to be included in the listed price

There should be no car ads without a price listed.

Why would anyone not wanting to mislead people be opposed to that?

Interesting.

How many of those does the front page of Tesla.com violate?

[Onebadcad]

Originally Posted by dvarapala

Kindly move the political commentary to the PR&C section. Thank you.

Most threads either start political, or gravitate towards politics.
I understand the forum formatting, but there are not enough non-pol threads daily.

Time for me to revive my Here To Help threads,,,

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Interesting.

How many of those does the front page of Tesla.com violate?

That is not a for sale listing. Click on SHOP AVAILABLE.

It will show the pre tax credit price in large print and the one reduced by the credit in small print with the disclaimer.

Also, 97% of people are eligible for the tax credit, so, a vast majority.

[GTOguy]

Real products that have value don't need government incentives and rebates to lure customers. Real products sell like hotcakes.....I.E.--the hemi Challengers and Chargers that are discontinued because Chrysler wants to go belly up. And will.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by GTOguy

Real products that have value don't need government incentives and rebates to lure customers. Real products sell like hotcakes.....I.E.--the hemi Challengers and Chargers that are discontinued because Chrysler wants to go belly up. And will.

It's not car makers fault that government created the EV tax credit. The original EV tax credit was passed by a Republican congress under GWB.

[GTOguy]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

It's not car makers fault that government created the EV tax credit. The original EV tax credit was passed by a Republican congress under GWB.

You have to ask yourself what the government's motive is. And then you have to accept the fact that without incentives and credits, and government funded charging stations, very few EV's would even be sold.
It's all smoke and mirrors. And, worst of all, is insidious. All based on a false green agenda that 50% of the planet bought into.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Also, 97% of people are eligible for the tax credit, so, a vast majority.

You have said multiple times that the discount must apply to EVERYBODY. Not the majority, EVERYBODY. Those are YOUR words. Apparently except Tesla. For Tesla, "vast majority" is close enough.

Remember this?

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

3) the price can have discounts taken out (like factory rebate) that every buyer can get.

How about this?

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

The wording I would add is that advertised prices can only include discounts that everyone is eligible for. Conditional discounts should be listed separately and not be taken out of the purchase price. Furthermore, dealer add ons installed on the car also need to be included in the advertised price.

So which is it? Everybody? Or "vast majority"?

They are using intentionally MISLEADING advertising with fine print to draw customers. Exactly what you claim to despise. Unless of course Tesla.



Meh. Close enough.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by GTOguy

You have to ask yourself what the government's motive is. And then you have to accept the fact that without incentives and credits, and government funded charging stations, very few EV's would even be sold.
It's all smoke and mirrors. And, worst of all, is insidious. All based on a false green agenda that 50% of the planet bought into.

Governments motive is the same regardless of party. It is to make their corporate donors money.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Governments motive is the same regardless of party. It is to make their corporate donors money.

And you're clearly ok with that.

Because "Libertarian".

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

You have said multiple times that the discount must apply to EVERYBODY. Not the majority, EVERYBODY. Those are YOUR words. Apparently except Tesla. For Tesla, "vast majority" is close enough.

Remember this?



How about this?



So which is it? Everybody? Or "vast majority"?

They are using intentionally MISLEADING advertising with fine print to draw customers. Exactly what you claim to despise. Unless of course Tesla.



Meh. Close enough.

I showed you an actual for sale listing. The large price did not have the tax credit taken out.