The Empire Strikes Back: Israeli Missiles hit Iran

[Bill]

Originally Posted by ptindall

I guess you don't read Bill Daniels posts where he says to completely retract from everything.

I have stated we need to end all foreign aid. I stand by that. Why should we borrow money to give it away to people who aren't even American? Let those countries borrow their own money. If that's your idea of completely retract from everything, then OK, yeah, I guess that's my position.

Call it force majeure.

After decades of supporting basically the whole world, we'll finally get to see who is a friend and who was the equivalent of "mom tied a pork chop around my neck so the dog would play with me."

[Tikiman]

Originally Posted by Bill

I have stated we need to end all foreign aid. I stand by that. Why should we borrow money to give it away to people who aren't even American? Let those countries borrow their own money. If that's your idea of completely retract from everything, then OK, yeah, I guess that's my position.

Call it force majeure.

After decades of supporting basically the whole world, we'll finally get to see who is a friend and who was the equivalent of "mom tied a pork chop around my neck so the dog would play with me."

Name one other country that taxes the living shit out of their people so that they can send that money to the United States. Even when we have natural disasters, nobody sends us money. Ever.

[Tikiman]

Originally Posted by Aerovette

Agree.

As for the bold part, remember, the Dems think Trump loves Russia so of course they will throw every dollar at an effort to attack a friend of Trump's.

Which is odd when you consider the tens of millions the Biden family have received from Russia.

I wonder how they reconcile that.

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by Tikiman

Which is odd when you consider the tens of millions the Biden family have received from Russia.

I wonder how they reconcile that.

It can all go away...for 15%.

[ptindall]

We had a relatively very peaceful 70 years thanks to American dominance, projection of power, and foreign policy. Now we are seeing what happens when America begins to retract. It only gets worse the more we pull back.

End all aide to Ukrain? Okay. Russia takes it. I guess you are good with that. If Russia moves on Poland, I guess you will be okay with that too? Sure they are a NATO ally, but **** 'em, Washington said we shouldn't have strategic allies and they don't send us any money or troops.

End all aide to Isreal? Okay. Would Isreal even exist today if we had gone with that policy from the start? Is that okay with you?

American foreign policy and the "military industrial complex" are favorite targets of the left for decades and now for the far right, but neither give any credit to how much better they have made the world. Neither have a plan that would result in a better future. Its US power that keeps the peace. Defund the police and get them out of the bad neighborhoods is an easy comparison. Very short sighted with very bad consequences.

[Aerovette]

Blinken is on TV now building a chasm between us and Israel.

Some friends we are. I would no longer want us as an ally. We are more of a liability at this point.

[Ronins2ndCuzzin]

Originally Posted by Aerovette

Blinken is on TV now building a chasm between us and Israel.

Some friends we are. I would no longer want us as an ally. We are more of a liability at this point.

He's trying not to lose the Pro-Palestinian voters.

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by Ronins2ndCuzzin

He's trying not to lose the Pro-Palestinian voters.

Pro-Palestinian = Pro Iran

I have no use for them.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by ptindall

We had a relatively very peaceful 70 years thanks to American dominance, projection of power, and foreign policy. Now we are seeing what happens when America begins to retract. It only gets worse the more we pull back.

Really? I recall a bunch of wars, police actions, and other misadventure by the US that populated a significant amount of real estate at Arlington National Cemetery and other cemeteries.


End all aide to Ukraine? Okay. Russia takes it. I guess you are good with that. If Russia moves on Poland, I guess you will be okay with that too? Sure they are a NATO ally, but **** 'em, Washington said we shouldn't have strategic allies and they don't send us any money or troops.


The Ukraine was virtually always a part of Russia. Did you miss the no notes, contemporaneous history lesson Putin gave about the Ukraine during the Tucker Carlson interview? If you missed it, watch it, and consider that none of our "history experts" refuted Putin's history lesson, which was complete with names and dates. Brandon can't speak one paragraph without getting something wrong. Putin spoke for a half hour on the geopolitical history of Russia. I love Trump, but I bet even Trump couldn't do that with respect to American history, at least, not without a bunch of prep work.

And "Russia rolls into Poland" is a red herring.....of course that's not going to happen, precisely because of NATO. Look at the trouble Russia is having in Ukraine right now, due entirely to NATO intervening in a NON NATO country. So if you really believe Russia is, or wants to invade Poland, I'm just going to put you in John Bolton territory.....not a realist.

End all aide to Israel? Okay. Would Israel even exist today if we had gone with that policy from the start? Is that okay with you?

Yes, it's fine. But even if you have the opinion that we should have supported Israel, how long is enough? 10 years? 20? 75? At some point, if you can't take the training wheels off, you deserve to fail. We're long past that point. They deserve to fail, since they can't wean themselves off US taxpayer money.

American foreign policy and the "military industrial complex" are favorite targets of the left for decades and now for the far right, but neither give any credit to how much better they have made the world. Neither have a plan that would result in a better future. Its US power that keeps the peace. Defund the police and get them out of the bad nieghborhoods is an easy comparison. Very short sighted with very bad consequences.

I have a plan.....start closing bases, say 5-10% a year overseas, repatriate those troops and equipment, and put those resources on our southern border, to defend OUR country.

You are so intent on keeping the peace.....look at Bosnia. We backed the Muslims there. How'd that work out for ya? Domino theory? We racked up an L in Vietnam and a push in Korea.

When France pulled out of Vietnam, we should have just stayed out of it. If they couldn't win, why did we think we could win?

How about Afghanistan? Everyone from Alexander the Great to the USSR tried their hand there and got sent packing by 6th century savages. We should have gone with the shock and awe portion, then left, with a warning that if anything else happened, the shock and awe next time would be nuclear.

Even the Iran/Iraq quagmire. Wouldn't it have been better if we just let them play amongst themselves? They were natural foils for each other, and when Muslims are occupied fighting against other Muslims, they don't have time to attack us. Instead we deposed Mossadeq, installed the Shah, funded Saddam, toppled Saddam, tried nationbuilding in Iraq and.....how'd all that go for ya?

Some guy said one time, "walk softly, but carry a big stick." Smart fellow, that one.




Edit: And let's talk about that projection of power. We're supposed to protect US interests, meaning commerce, US flagged shipping, embassies and consulates, etc. Remember Benghazi? The MINUTE it was clear the Libyan government wasn't going to honor their treaty obligations by defending our consulate, the various rescue missions should have been scrambled, including the F-16's from Aviano, Italy. They could have at least strafed the mob, and dropped a few bombs in the vicinity just for some shock and awe, letting the mob know America was there and not OK with them attacking diplomats.

But that didn't happen. I don't recall what other rapid response teams we had, but they were apparently called off, too. So what good IS all that forward projection if we aren't going to use it in defense of.....America?

[ptindall]

Really? I recall a bunch of wars, police actions, and other misadventure by the US that populated a significant amount of real estate at Arlington National Cemetery and other cemeteries.

Yes, really. Historically speaking, the world has been quite peacefull since the end of WWII. You could argue that a strong US is not why, but to say that we have not been in a historically peaceful time since WWII is just false.

Did you miss the no notes, contemporaneous history lesson Putin gave about the Ukraine during the Tucker Carlson interview?

No, I watched the whole thing. I noticed immediately how much weight he put on single, seeming insignificant events and quotes from long ago to build his narrative. But you chose to buy it and agree with Putin that Ukraine doesn't exist at all as a independant country, therefor him invading it is just fine. Great.

none of our "history experts" refuted Putin's history lesson"

Flat out FALSE. Here is a book written before the interview that completely refutes Putin's version of history.

https://www.simonandschuster.com/boo.../9781668013724

"Russia rolls into Poland" is a red herring.....of course that's not going to happen, precisely because of NATO. Look at the trouble Russia is having in Ukraine right now, due entirely to NATO intervening in a NON NATO country

Here is a perfect example of you trying to have it both ways. You want US to stop helping Ukraine and all NATO allies, yet you cite NATO and US aide to Ukraine as the reason Russia can't attack Poland. If you had your way, your own reason Russia can't expand further is gone.

I have not read the rest of your post (althought I did notice you would prefer Kim Jong Un to rule over the 51,000,000 South Koreans) For one, your use of blue text instead of properly multi-quoting makes it difficult and time consuming to respond and I don't care to expend the energy to go over every conflict since WWII that are all peanuts compared to the carnage before the US became the dominant world power.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by ptindall

Yes, really. Historically speaking, the world has been quite peacefull since the end of WWII. You could argue that a strong US is not why, but to say that we have not been in a historically peaceful time since WWII is just false.



No, I watched the whole thing. I noticed immediately how much weight he put on single, seeming insignificant events and quotes from long ago to build his narrative. But you chose to buy it and agree with Putin that Ukraine doesn't exist at all as a independant country, therefor him invading it is just fine. Great.



Flat out FALSE. Here is a book written before the interview that completely refutes Putin's version of history.

https://www.simonandschuster.com/boo.../9781668013724



Here is a perfect example of you trying to have it both ways. You want US to stop helping Ukraine and all NATO allies, yet you cite NATO and US aide to Ukraine as the reason Russia can't attack Poland. If you had your way, your own reason Russia can't expand further is gone.

I have not read the rest of your post (althought I did notice you would prefer Kim Jong Un to rule over the 51,000,000 South Koreans) For one, your use of blue text instead of properly multi-quoting makes it difficult and time consuming to respond and I don't care to expend the energy to go over every conflict since WWII that are all peanuts compared to the carnage before the US became the dominant world power.

While you are worried about the Russian bear that can't even take the Ukraine after what, a year and a half, the actual threat, China, runs wild. Belt and Roads? That's China buying up resources and governments all over the world, including, if you haven't noticed the Brandon family's "business," OUR government.

After the fall of the USSR, we should have sought good relations with Russia and the now, at least on paper, independent satellite nations, Belarus, Georgia, the Ukraine, etc. Instead, we kept on expanding NATO, pushing NATO closer and closer to Russia. If you were Russia, would you take NATO expansion as a threat to you? As an American, did you take USSR expansion in Cuba and select South American countries like Venezuela as a threat?

Western and Eastern White nations should have banded together after the collapse, as Whites are a minority world wide. But that didn't happen. Why? Who didn't want that? Who prevented that from happening? Putin named names during the Tucker interview. Was he lying? Perhaps. I have in mind others. Yet, everything he said made sense, it makes sense that we shouldn't HAVE to have an adversarial enemy approach to Russia, a country with a fraction of our economy, and an even smaller fraction when we consider NATO as a whole.

Remember Hillary's duplicitous "reset button?" Trump actually tried to improve relations with Russia, but was prevented by a united uniparty that smeared Trump as a Russian agent for literally years.

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by 6spdC6

My grandmother, now long dead was a member of some religion that said in the year 2000 would be the beginning of the end for the world. After that date things would go from bad to worse! They believed that the final trouble would start in the middle east and as time went by, get much worse.

Sure, religious cults have all sorts of predicitons. Their track record of accuracy isn't so great however - just ask D'OHH! of the Heaven's Gate cult.

[VatorMan]

Russia via Ukraine and Iran are doing to the US what we did to them during the Reagan years. Force the US to build so much military hardware we bankrupt ourselves.

[ptindall]

Originally Posted by Bill

Western and Eastern White nations should have banded together after the collapse, as Whites are a minority world wide. But that didn't happen. Why?

Again, I did not read you whole post. I may sometime in the future. But I caught this line I can answer quicky. The answer is because race is not the defining factor of of US foreign policy. Russian and US interests are often at odds. Maybe that's why we chose not to share our military technology with Russia despite the oh-so-important fact that we share a skin color.

[DDSLT5]

Nuke those ****s. Get it done.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by ptindall

Again, I did not read you whole post. I may sometime in the future. But I caught this line I can answer quicky. The answer is because race is not the defining factor of of US foreign policy. Russian and US interests are often at odds. Maybe that's why we chose not to share our military technology with Russia despite the oh-so-important fact that we share a skin color.