The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I consider myself an expert car buyer...

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

...



Look how fast that righteous indignation and all of that bullshit about ethics, morals, and integrity just flew out the window...



What in the hell are you even arguing?



You're lying.

It's that simple. You're making shit up.

And the best part of it is that after all of your talk of being a "seasoned buyer", you are too ignorant to realize that you fell for the most misleading bullshit in the entire auto industry. Carfax. Do you know who told you that it was a red flag? Carfax told you. Let that sink in for a minute. Carfax marketing told you that not having a Carfax is a red flag. Where do you think Carfax inputs come from?

Carfax is garbage.



Stop lying.

Changing an ECU (I assume that's what you meant) doesn't change the mileage. That's not how it works. Maybe you should try to educate yourself before posting more ignorant nonsense.



If you think Carfax prevents you from getting screwed...

Can't lie. You falling that hard for blatantly misleading marketing after all of this really makes me laugh.

I don't really know how the mileage was changed. I made an assumptions. What I know for a fact is that the mileage on the car did not match the carfax reported mileages. That's a fact and not a lie. Believe what you want but this really happened. Carfax isn't perfect cut odometer rollbacks can be detected and any reported accidents will also be on the carfax.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Because Carfax.

I also inspect the car, including checking for oil leaks, smoke from the tail pipe, signs of an accident damage etc.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

How many cars have you bought?? I bought over 70, mostly used cars.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

...any reported accidents will also be on the carfax.

Totally, absolutely, 100% WRONG! That is what many people, including you, believe but it's not true. Not even close.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Onebadcad

carfax is only as good as items that were reported, it is VERY COMMON on many, if not most, carfaxes that MANY things went unreported.

It's way worse than that.

Some 18 year old tech at a dealer fat fingers 180k miles instead of 18k on a service ticket which then goes into the 3rd party database mining before being sent off to Carfax... guess what Carfax does when they see an oil change at 180k and the next one at 21k?

What happens when a minimum wage clerk at the auction house enters the wrong mileage on a title transfer (which happens a solid 25% of the time BTW)

If that mileage is higher... Boom!! Odometer fraud!!!! (Well, at least according to Carfax).

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Onebadcad

carfax is only as good as items that were reported, it is VERY COMMON on many, if not most, carfaxes that MANY things went unreported.

For instance, your neighbor's body shop fixes your front-end collision, you tell him not to put it on carfax, he agrees as no one else will know.

Another, you take your bent frame pickup truck to vladimar's suspension shop after your wife goes airborne for 50 feet off a speed bump.
vlad advises he can get it back to 90% factory spec, gives you a price, gives you another price, a little higher, so that he will report the damage and inadequate repair, you agree to the higher price as you want to sell it once repair it done. vlad agrees but only if you pay him upfront AND give him a jug handle of smirnoff's, you agree, all is good, the sucka who buys your truck will never know.

carfax IS NOT golden!!

Nobody said that it's PERFECT. However, in many cases, things like odometer rollback and major accidents will show up. Any time there is a major accident that is included in a police report, it will show on the carfax.
Sure, if someone crashes their car against a post and police is not involved and they fix the car themselves at home, it won't show but that doesn't account for most accidents. In most cases, Carfax gives you a lot of information.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

Totally, absolutely, 100% WRONG! That is what many people, including you, believe but it's not true. Not even close.

If there was a police report, it will be on the carfax.
If insurance was involved, it will be on the carfax.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

How many cars have you bought?? I bought over 70, mostly used cars.

And I have bought and sold thousands. I have sent hundreds of vehicles to auction. I have bought hundreds more. I have bought private party. I have countless trade-ins. I have sold thousands to individuals, other dealers. Motorcycles, cars, trucks, campers, RVs.

70? That's cute.

What's your point?

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

If there was a police report, it will be on the carfax.
If insurance was involved, it will be on the carfax.

100% false.

It's that simple. FALSE.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

If there was a police report, it will be on the carfax.
If insurance was involved, it will be on the carfax.

Wrong. Again. You have a lot more trust in CarFax than you should have.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I also inspect the car, including checking for oil leaks, smoke from the tail pipe, signs of an accident damage etc.

Well I'd sure as hell hope you would notice a car smoking and leaking oil.

You also didn't mention any of the things that are clear signs of fraud or odometer rollback.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

And I have bought and sold thousands. I have sent hundreds of vehicles to auction. I have bought hundreds more. I have bought private party. I have countless trade-ins. I have sold thousands to individuals, other dealers. Motorcycles, cars, trucks, campers, RVs.

70? That's cute.

What's your point?

I asked Steve, not you. I know that you used to have a dealership.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

Wrong. Again. You have a lot more trust in CarFax than you should have.

The irony of that after arguing for a week that dealers are "misleading" is absolutely spectacular.

[sublime1996525]

Originally Posted by dvarapala

Even UniqueDoug - an actual car dealer - was confused by the wording on a stealership advertisement offering "Up to $13,000 off."

If a car dealer get flummoxed what chance does Joe Sixpack have?

Is UD really a good example?

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I asked Steve, not you. I now that you used to have a dealership.

(*) And am still a buyer for 2 different dealers.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

100% false.

It's that simple. FALSE.

Maybe not ALL cases but most..

https://www.davinciautomotive.com/un...story%20report.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

(*) And am still a buyer for 2 different dealers.

I thought that most dealers get their cars from Mannheim auctions and trade ins.

[RedLS1GTO]

Carfax is an absolute fraud and there is a special place in hell waiting for the assholes that run it.

They provide garbage information. They absolve themselves of any culpability for misinformation (of course via that whole fine print thing). They market themselves in a way that holds dealers and individuals hostage... just like is seen here. If you don't have a Carfax, it's a red flag. I have seen hundreds, yes hundreds of vehicles come across as "Potential Odometer Rollback". Do you know how many actually were?

1. Exactly 1. And it was a custom motorcycle that didn't even have an OEM odometer on it.



Carfax has convinced the world that they are the protector of truth. They are the largest source of false information in the entire industry. F**k Carfax.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Well I'd sure as hell hope you would notice a car smoking and leaking oil.

You also didn't mention any of the things that are clear signs of fraud or odometer rollback.

As for odometer rollback, if you have many entries showing mileage going up , there is little chance that all of those entries were done in error.
Yes, errors do happen if someone mistypes something but it would look like this..

2019 20000 miles
2020 21000 miles
2021 23000 miles
2022 10000 miles
2023 26000 miles..

Obviously, the 2022 mileage may have been typed in incorrectly but if you have a car that had the mileage go up consistently over many years and then the car is sold with 100k miles less on the odometer, this is fraud.