So Is Trump Gonna Quit Or What ?

[Jeff '79]

Originally Posted by aerovette

Serious question. Do you sincerely believe the statement above, or is this just an impact point or attention grabbing statement?

I'm not going to attack you if you believe it.

I wouldn't write it if I didn't believe it. Yes, I do, as do many others.

[Vandelay Industries]

Originally Posted by Jeff '79

I wouldn't write it if I didn't believe it. Yes, I do, as do many others.

Speaking of living in one's own alternate reality.

[Jeff '79]

Originally Posted by Vandelay Industries

Speaking of living in one's own alternate reality.

I consider myself moderate right.
It's not an alternate reality, it is my reality.
Are you offended by how I perceive the world around me?

[Vandelay Industries]

Originally Posted by Jeff '79

I consider myself moderate right.
It's not an alternate reality, it is my reality.
Are you offended by how I perceive the world around me?

Nope, there is very little in this world that offends me. Interesting choice of words.

What do you think about the prior administration framing innocent Americans for crimes they didn't commit and also trying to sabotage the incoming administration?

[Little Red L98.]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

How do know he “did nothing?” Are you privy to what our intelligence agencies do, or are you just guessing with no facts to back up your guessing? It’s obvious which it is to most of us. If you believe Biden would do anything to Russia you’re seriously delusional.

We had two choices in the last election, bad and worse. The upcoming election presents the same two choices.

Amen to that! Why do the American people and/or the respective parties keep nominating these losers? The “good” ones get knocked out early or they simply don’t throw their hats in the ring for consideration leaving bombastic loser liars who probably don’t care or don’t believe their own rhetoric.

Kids used to grow up wanting to be president. Not so much anymore. Who wants that shit show of a job, especially in the shit show we’re currently in.

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

OK, let's go with that. Then we can't let the same useful idiots who allowed themselves to be used as a diversion for the arsonists and looters to get close to any important landmarks going forward. It's just too dangerous. You'll note that we never see the 'peaceful' protestors' actually stopping the looters, arsonists, and rioters. Why is that? If you were trying to make a peaceful statement, and here's some asshole destroying shit, wouldn't you and the other 'peaceful protestors' stop the asshole destroying shit? If that happened, we wouldn't be here talking about it right now. Cities wouldn't have been burnt down. Statues would still be up. The SRV statue wouldn't be ****ed up right now. See where I'm going with this?

Not true. I witnessed it first hand. But there’s nothing anyone can do to stop someone driven to destroy shit and be an asshole.

[Aerovette]

Some clarity a day after reports of tear gas in Lafayette Square, but questions remain

Dan Friedell

June 2, 2020, 9:30 PM


Authorities have admitted to deploying smoke canisters and PepperBalls. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)
Lafayette Square, across the street from the White House, has been the local epicenter of the last five days of protests in the aftermath of George Floyd’s death in Minneapolis police custody last week.

The statue-dotted green space, just north of the White House, is usually filled with residents and tourists taking a break from work or from a long day of visiting monuments.

But on the evening of June 1, just as President Donald Trump was making a speech about authorities asserting themselves in the face of the Floyd-inspired protests around the country, a combination of shield-wielding police from federal agencies (Secret Service, Park Police, DC National Guard) and nearby Arlington, Virginia, began to push the assembled crowd back past the north side of the square, toward H Street NW and beyond.


The police action came about 15 minutes before the 7 p.m. curfew that D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser had announced earlier Monday.

Both Bowser, D.C. police Chief Peter Newsham and the District’s Attorney General Karl Racine have criticized the action as premature and unwarranted, just a quarter of an hour before the curfew was to commence.

Racine’s Tuesday statement called it “an assault” on peaceful protesters. Bowser called it unprovoked and “shameful.”

Just after the crowd was pushed north, away from the Square, Trump emerged from the White House and walked one block to the historic St. John’s Episcopal Church to take photos with a Bible in his hand.


Trump walked through the park to reach St. John’s Episcopal Church shortly after it was cleared. (AP Photo/Patrick Semansky)
Twenty-four hours later, a number of questions persist about what prompted the police to advance on the protesters.

Who gave the order to push protesters away from Lafayette Square, and when was the order made?

Did police make any effort to warn protesters that they should move back?

Were the police provoked by the protesters?

Was tear gas or another irritant used to break up the crowd of protesters?


A day later, a number of official comments have been made on the issue, along with some non-comments, and the picture about what happened is not much clearer.

To start with the first question, a number of reports came out Tuesday that put the responsibility on U.S. Attorney General William Barr.

CBS News confirmed reporting from The Washington Post that Barr and his office made the decision either late Sunday (May 31) or early Monday to extend the perimeter around the White House. When he arrived in the area on Monday afternoon, he surveyed the square and was disappointed his request had not yet been carried out.

At that point, after talking with police, the move to expand the perimeter started. A Department of Justice official, who spoke with The Washington Post on the condition of anonymity, said “he [Barr] basically said: ‘This needs to be done. Get it done.'”

However, in a statement late Tuesday from the U.S. Park Police Acting Chief Gregory T. Monahan, there was no mention of this conference with Barr. Instead, the Park Police characterized protesters close to the park as being violent and throwing objects such as frozen water bottles and “caustic liquids,” which is what prompted three warnings to move back and an eventual push on the crowd.


WTOP’s reporter on the scene, Alejandro Alvarez, who posted video to Twitter showing Barr evaluating the situation at the north end of the square earlier in the afternoon, said he did not hear three requests from the police that protesters should move back away from the H Street side of the park.


By Tuesday, a larger perimeter around the White House had been created.


According to a CBS News Justice Department source, Barr and his department made the decision to move the crowd back from the square regardless of Trump’s plan to walk to the church for photos.

But, CBS News also reported that Barr and other presidential advisers wanted Trump to make the walk in a “show of strength” after reports surfaced over the weekend that he had retreated into a White House bunker during Friday night’s protests.

Adding more detail to the events in the park Tuesday was Arlington County, which sent a release discussing its decision to recall officers it had detailed to D.C. to support the National Park Police. The county memo reinforced the assertion that “demonstrators were ordered to leave the area” about 10 minutes before the “redirection” began.


D.C. police Chief Newsham, in his discussion of Monday’s incident during a Tuesday news conference, also noted that “federal law enforcement officers” gave warnings to disperse.

The next question is, how did the police “redirect” the crowd? In its release, Arlington County noted its officers did not “unholster their batons, or fire rubber bullets or tear gas at the protesters.” (Note: Later Tuesday, Arlington amended its release to remove the reference to “batons.” Arlington County confirmed to WTOP that its officers did unholster batons.)

But, why were reports circulating that tear gas was used?


Earlier Tuesday, WTOP’s Neal Augenstein tweeted that he had asked the Secret Service for some clarification “several times.”


The response? “For operational security reasons, the US Secret Service does not discuss our protectees, our protective means and methods.”

Augenstein continued his reporting Tuesday afternoon, getting this response from Acting United States Park Police Chief Gregory T. Monhan.



“No tear gas was used by USPP officers or other assisting law enforcement partners to close the area at Lafayette Park,” Monahan said via a release from the National Park Service.

As Arlington County’s release noted, its officers were attempting to move the crowd with “their presence” and not any irritants.

Why, then, did multiple reporters describe the irritant in the area a tear gas, and why was it deployed?

Deeper reporting reveals that protesters did begin to get arrested, throwing water bottles, rocks and other projectiles at the oncoming police.

“As many of the protesters became more combative, continued to throw projectiles, and attempted to grab officers’ weapons, officers then employed the use of smoke canisters and pepper balls.” Monahan’s statement also described “caches of glass bottles, baseball bats and metal poles hidden along the street.”

PepperBall is in fact a brand name touted on the company’s website as “your complete nonlethal solution.” The balls themselves resemble paint balls, and can be “launched” from different devices, most of which resemble weapons.


Promotional material calls PepperBalls “the most effective chemical irritant available” and can create a 12-foot cloud that can affect the eyes, nose and throat of those who are in the way.

A Google search shows that PepperBalls were recently used to break up a crowd at the University of Dayton in early May. News reports from that incident also note a confusion between the PepperBalls and tear gas.

Newsham noted in his news conference Tuesday that D.C. police was only made aware of Trump’s planned walk to the church moments before it happened, and even then, it was only called “presidential movement in the area” of Lafayette Square.

Reporters are still working to verify information provided by the authorities on Tuesday.

The Justice Department, according to CBS News, continues to refer all questions about the forceful tactics used Monday night to the agencies that carried them out.

Reporting from The Washington Post and WTOP’s Alvarez reveals that from what they could see, the demonstration had been peaceful before the police initiated the move just before 7 p.m.

I cannot find any reference to the NG being trucked in just for the purpose of Trump's walk. However, I would imagine that George Bush had a path cleared for him to visit Ground Zero (He was not invited). Had there been protesters, I have no doubt they would have been dealt with swiftly.

[Jeff '79]

Originally Posted by Vandelay Industries

Nope, there is very little in this world that offends me. Interesting choice of words.

What do you think about the prior administration framing innocent Americans for crimes they didn't commit and also trying to sabotage the incoming administration?

Previous administrationS, I think you meant to say.
All have had their suspect idiosyncrasies.
I can't think of one administration since I've been alive to witness them, yes, including Reagan, that was pristine.

[Jeff '79]

Originally Posted by aerovette

Some clarity a day after reports of tear gas in Lafayette Square, but questions remain

Dan Friedell

June 2, 2020, 9:30 PM


Authorities have admitted to deploying smoke canisters and PepperBalls. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)
Lafayette Square, across the street from the White House, has been the local epicenter of the last five days of protests in the aftermath of George Floyd’s death in Minneapolis police custody last week.

The statue-dotted green space, just north of the White House, is usually filled with residents and tourists taking a break from work or from a long day of visiting monuments.

But on the evening of June 1, just as President Donald Trump was making a speech about authorities asserting themselves in the face of the Floyd-inspired protests around the country, a combination of shield-wielding police from federal agencies (Secret Service, Park Police, DC National Guard) and nearby Arlington, Virginia, began to push the assembled crowd back past the north side of the square, toward H Street NW and beyond.


The police action came about 15 minutes before the 7 p.m. curfew that D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser had announced earlier Monday.

Both Bowser, D.C. police Chief Peter Newsham and the District’s Attorney General Karl Racine have criticized the action as premature and unwarranted, just a quarter of an hour before the curfew was to commence.

Racine’s Tuesday statement called it “an assault” on peaceful protesters. Bowser called it unprovoked and “shameful.”

Just after the crowd was pushed north, away from the Square, Trump emerged from the White House and walked one block to the historic St. John’s Episcopal Church to take photos with a Bible in his hand.


Trump walked through the park to reach St. John’s Episcopal Church shortly after it was cleared. (AP Photo/Patrick Semansky)
Twenty-four hours later, a number of questions persist about what prompted the police to advance on the protesters.

Who gave the order to push protesters away from Lafayette Square, and when was the order made?

Did police make any effort to warn protesters that they should move back?

Were the police provoked by the protesters?

Was tear gas or another irritant used to break up the crowd of protesters?


A day later, a number of official comments have been made on the issue, along with some non-comments, and the picture about what happened is not much clearer.

To start with the first question, a number of reports came out Tuesday that put the responsibility on U.S. Attorney General William Barr.

CBS News confirmed reporting from The Washington Post that Barr and his office made the decision either late Sunday (May 31) or early Monday to extend the perimeter around the White House. When he arrived in the area on Monday afternoon, he surveyed the square and was disappointed his request had not yet been carried out.

At that point, after talking with police, the move to expand the perimeter started. A Department of Justice official, who spoke with The Washington Post on the condition of anonymity, said “he [Barr] basically said: ‘This needs to be done. Get it done.'”

However, in a statement late Tuesday from the U.S. Park Police Acting Chief Gregory T. Monahan, there was no mention of this conference with Barr. Instead, the Park Police characterized protesters close to the park as being violent and throwing objects such as frozen water bottles and “caustic liquids,” which is what prompted three warnings to move back and an eventual push on the crowd.


WTOP’s reporter on the scene, Alejandro Alvarez, who posted video to Twitter showing Barr evaluating the situation at the north end of the square earlier in the afternoon, said he did not hear three requests from the police that protesters should move back away from the H Street side of the park.


By Tuesday, a larger perimeter around the White House had been created.


According to a CBS News Justice Department source, Barr and his department made the decision to move the crowd back from the square regardless of Trump’s plan to walk to the church for photos.

But, CBS News also reported that Barr and other presidential advisers wanted Trump to make the walk in a “show of strength” after reports surfaced over the weekend that he had retreated into a White House bunker during Friday night’s protests.

Adding more detail to the events in the park Tuesday was Arlington County, which sent a release discussing its decision to recall officers it had detailed to D.C. to support the National Park Police. The county memo reinforced the assertion that “demonstrators were ordered to leave the area” about 10 minutes before the “redirection” began.


D.C. police Chief Newsham, in his discussion of Monday’s incident during a Tuesday news conference, also noted that “federal law enforcement officers” gave warnings to disperse.

The next question is, how did the police “redirect” the crowd? In its release, Arlington County noted its officers did not “unholster their batons, or fire rubber bullets or tear gas at the protesters.” (Note: Later Tuesday, Arlington amended its release to remove the reference to “batons.” Arlington County confirmed to WTOP that its officers did unholster batons.)

But, why were reports circulating that tear gas was used?


Earlier Tuesday, WTOP’s Neal Augenstein tweeted that he had asked the Secret Service for some clarification “several times.”


The response? “For operational security reasons, the US Secret Service does not discuss our protectees, our protective means and methods.”

Augenstein continued his reporting Tuesday afternoon, getting this response from Acting United States Park Police Chief Gregory T. Monhan.



“No tear gas was used by USPP officers or other assisting law enforcement partners to close the area at Lafayette Park,” Monahan said via a release from the National Park Service.

As Arlington County’s release noted, its officers were attempting to move the crowd with “their presence” and not any irritants.

Why, then, did multiple reporters describe the irritant in the area a tear gas, and why was it deployed?

Deeper reporting reveals that protesters did begin to get arrested, throwing water bottles, rocks and other projectiles at the oncoming police.

“As many of the protesters became more combative, continued to throw projectiles, and attempted to grab officers’ weapons, officers then employed the use of smoke canisters and pepper balls.” Monahan’s statement also described “caches of glass bottles, baseball bats and metal poles hidden along the street.”

PepperBall is in fact a brand name touted on the company’s website as “your complete nonlethal solution.” The balls themselves resemble paint balls, and can be “launched” from different devices, most of which resemble weapons.


Promotional material calls PepperBalls “the most effective chemical irritant available” and can create a 12-foot cloud that can affect the eyes, nose and throat of those who are in the way.

A Google search shows that PepperBalls were recently used to break up a crowd at the University of Dayton in early May. News reports from that incident also note a confusion between the PepperBalls and tear gas.

Newsham noted in his news conference Tuesday that D.C. police was only made aware of Trump’s planned walk to the church moments before it happened, and even then, it was only called “presidential movement in the area” of Lafayette Square.

Reporters are still working to verify information provided by the authorities on Tuesday.

The Justice Department, according to CBS News, continues to refer all questions about the forceful tactics used Monday night to the agencies that carried them out.

Reporting from The Washington Post and WTOP’s Alvarez reveals that from what they could see, the demonstration had been peaceful before the police initiated the move just before 7 p.m.

I cannot find any reference to the NG being trucked in just for the purpose of Trump's walk. However, I would imagine that George Bush had a path cleared for him to visit Ground Zero (He was not invited). Had there been protesters, I have no doubt they would have been dealt with swiftly.

Barr, and all of Trump's moppets, are beholdent to Trump, or, as you see everyday, are FIRED !
Don't think for a moment that Trump didn't give the order.
Even if he didn't, my reality, and many others, saw it that way.
It could have been handled in a very different way, but Trump decided to use the Hammer and Sickle.
He made the USA look very bad in the eye of the world and US citizens.
Nice spin though.

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by Jeff '79

Barr, and all of Trump's moppets, are beholdent to Trump, or, as you see everyday, are FIRED !
Don't think for a moment that Trump didn't give the order.
Even if he didn't, my reality, and many others, saw it that way.
It could have been handled in a very different way, but Trump decided to use the Hammer and Sickle.
He made the USA look very bad in the eye of the world and US citizens.
Nice spin though.

Ahhh, ok. The "facts don't matter" approach. It's all about how you feel, not the truth. Glad that's out of the way.

You are the epitome of the Democratic party. Was your vote for Trump an accident? It sure sounds like it. On what basis did you vote for him if your expectation was that he would simply be a conformist cuck? Or was it simply a vote against Hillary and not intended as "support" for Trump. I can understand that. I'm sure your vote for Biden will be on the same basis.

[Anjdog2003]

When President Trump wins again in 2020, we'll have four more years of whining, another attempt on impeachment, three women back in 1984 that said President Trump fondled them, hopefully Pelosi will pass away, and Joe Biden will run for city councilmen of Dear Head Montana on saving the Dolphins in Montana.

[Jeff '79]

Originally Posted by aerovette

Ahhh, ok. The "facts don't matter" approach. It's all about how you feel, not the truth. Glad that's out of the way.

You are the epitome of the Democratic party. Was your vote for Trump an accident? It sure sounds like it. On what basis did you vote for him if your expectation was that he would simply be a conformist cuck? Or was it simply a vote against Hillary and not intended as "support" for Trump. I can understand that. I'm sure your vote for Biden will be on the same basis.

Are those really the facts???
You DO NOT KNOW THAT.
The BS that spews from the present administration is all totally not believable at this point.
Trump flat out lies about everything. It comes naturally to him.

[Jeff '79]

Originally Posted by Anjdog2003

When President Trump wins again in 2020, we'll have four more years of whining, another attempt on impeachment, three women back in 1984 that said President Trump fondled them, hopefully Pelosi will pass away, and Joe Biden will run for city councilmen of Dear Head Montana on saving the Dolphins in Montana.

I wish the Dems had a better candidate.
Ya, it sucks that I have to vote for him to eliminate the narcissistic sociopath that lives in 1200 Penn Ave., but that's just the way it is after seeing his botching the protests, the Covid thing, and the Russian thing.
Hell ! I wish another Republican could run against him because I'd vote for that person....
Oh, btw... Pelosi...

[DAB]

Eric Holder saying he's Obama's "wingman", that was ok.

I expect appointed officials to have the same overall view as Trump, they report to him. you wouldn't hire someone who wanted to do things differently from how you wanted to do them. the President is charged to faithfully enforce the laws, not the AG, the President. his power and authority is delegated to the AG, and a president should expect his AG to pursue things that the president wants pursued. remember Jack and Bobby Kennedy?

[Jeff '79]

Originally Posted by DAB

Eric Holder saying he's Obama's "wingman", that was ok.

I expect appointed officials to have the same overall view as Trump, they report to him. you wouldn't hire someone who wanted to do things differently from how you wanted to do them. the President is charged to faithfully enforce the laws, not the AG, the President. his power and authority is delegated to the AG, and a president should expect his AG to pursue things that the president wants pursued. remember Jack and Bobby Kennedy?

Yes, but if he's doing something inherently against the law, would you expect someone with moral turpitude to agree and follow ?

I was 3 days old when JFK was assassinated, so there's that

[Millenium Vette]

Originally Posted by Jeff '79

I wish the Dems had a better candidate.
Ya, it sucks that I have to vote for him to eliminate the narcissistic sociopath that lives in 1200 Penn Ave., but that's just the way it is after seeing his botching the protests, the Covid thing, and the Russian thing.
Hell ! I wish another Republican could run against him because I'd vote for that person....
Oh, btw... Pelosi...

I agree, the head of the EPA needs to go......

[DAB]

Originally Posted by Jeff '79

Yes, but if he's doing something inherently against the law, would you expect someone with moral turpitude to agree and follow ?

I was 3 days old when JFK was assassinated, so there's that

well, congress is free to impeach him whenever they see fit.

if an official doesn't agree with something, they can have a private meeting, express their concerns, and either get with the program or resign.

" inherently against the law" - what do you have in mind? like setting up the incoming Nat'l Security Director with BS crimes? the president has a fair amount of leeway in doing things, they all do. he doesn't report to the AG, the AG reports to him. or maybe using a private email server for official business? when a .gov account exists for that very purpose, at no charge to the official?

[Jeff '79]

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...030216010.html

The guy is a cartoon character at this point.

[Jeff '79]

Originally Posted by DAB

well, congress is free to impeach him whenever they see fit.

if an official doesn't agree with something, they can have a private meeting, express their concerns, and either get with the program or resign.

" inherently against the law" - what do you have in mind? like setting up the incoming Nat'l Security Director with BS crimes? the president has a fair amount of leeway in doing things, they all do. he doesn't report to the AG, the AG reports to him. or maybe using a private email server for official business? when a .gov account exists for that very purpose, at no charge to the official?

See post #47

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by Jeff '79

I wish the Dems had a better candidate.
Ya, it sucks that I have to vote for him to eliminate the narcissistic sociopath that lives in 1200 Penn Ave., but that's just the way it is after seeing his botching the protests, the Covid thing, and the Russian thing.
Hell ! I wish another Republican could run against him because I'd vote for that person....
Oh, btw... Pelosi...

I could never find it in my soul to support a party or candidate that supports or allows:


Disrespecting the flag
Defying the Constitution
Shitting in the streets and on the sidewalks
Condemning prayer
Removing history
Rioting
Disrespecting the police
Spitting on/hitting people for their support of Trump
Throwing rocks/bottles/bricks/fireworks/etc.
Disrespecting THE OFFICE of the President
Breaking the law
Doing drugs
Sneaking in to the country
Fighting with teachers
Punching customers
Destroying other people's property
Persecution
Censorship


...but if that's your thing, the freedom America affords, allows you to support these things.

[DAB]

Originally Posted by aerovette

I could never find it in my soul to support a party or candidate that supports or allows:


Disrespecting the flag
Defying the Constitution
Shitting in the streets and on the sidewalks
Condemning prayer
Removing history
Rioting
Disrespecting the police
Spitting on/hitting people for their support of Trump
Throwing rocks/bottles/bricks/fireworks/etc.
Disrespecting THE OFFICE of the President
Breaking the law
Doing drugs
Sneaking in to the country
Fighting with teachers
Punching customers
Destroying other people's property
Persecution
Censorship


...but if that's your thing, the freedom America affords, allows you to support these things.

killing babies...