Dem: US credit down because of military spending

[Chris Fowler]

Originally Posted by Exotix

Hey Barney ... remind us again what the cost of Bush's wars are ... you know, what Bush borrowed from China and put the rest on a credit card for the American people to pay off so Cheney could loot the U.S. Treasury because it was his due and what the hell ...

*Deficits don't Matter*

Combined cost, to date, is less than the total deficit for this year.

Cost for Iraq, to date, is less than the cost for the stimulus last year.

Cost of War to the United States | COSTOFWAR.COM

[Exotix]

Originally Posted by Chris Fowler

Combined cost, to date, is less than the total deficit for this year.

Cost for Iraq, to date, is less than the cost for the stimulus last year.

Cost of War to the United States | COSTOFWAR.COM

How do you know given this data ...



Lost & Unaccounted for in Iraq ~ $9 billion of US taxpayers' money and $549.7 milion in spare parts shipped in 2004 to US contractors.
Also, per ABC News, 190,000 guns, including 110,000 AK-47 rifles.

Lost and Reported Stolen ~ $6.6 billion of U.S. taxpayers' money earmarked for Iraq reconstruction, reported on June 14, 2011 by Special inspector general for Iraq reconstruction Stuart Bowen who called it "the largest theft of funds in national history."
(Source - CBS News) Last known holder of the $6.6 billion lost: the U.S. government.

Missing ~ $1 billion in tractor trailers, tank recovery vehicles, machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades and other equipment and services provided to the Iraqi security forces.
(Per CBS News on Dec 6, 2007.)

Mismanaged & Wasted in Iraq ~ $10 billion, per Feb 2007 Congressional hearings

Halliburton Overcharges Classified by the Pentagon as Unreasonable and Unsupported ~ $1.4 billion

Amount paid to KBR, a former Halliburton division, to supply U.S. military in Iraq with food, fuel, housing and other items ~ $20 billion

Portion of the $20 billion paid to KBR that Pentagon auditors deem "questionable or supportable" ~ $3.2 billion

U.S. Annual Air-Conditioning Cost in Iraq and Afghanistan ~ $20.2 billion
(Source - NPR, June 25, 2011)

[Joecooool]

Originally Posted by Exotix

How do you know given this data ...



Lost & Unaccounted for in Iraq ~ $9 billion of US taxpayers' money and $549.7 milion in spare parts shipped in 2004 to US contractors.
Also, per ABC News, 190,000 guns, including 110,000 AK-47 rifles.

Lost and Reported Stolen ~ $6.6 billion of U.S. taxpayers' money earmarked for Iraq reconstruction, reported on June 14, 2011 by Special inspector general for Iraq reconstruction Stuart Bowen who called it "the largest theft of funds in national history."
(Source - CBS News) Last known holder of the $6.6 billion lost: the U.S. government.

Missing ~ $1 billion in tractor trailers, tank recovery vehicles, machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades and other equipment and services provided to the Iraqi security forces.
(Per CBS News on Dec 6, 2007.)

Mismanaged & Wasted in Iraq ~ $10 billion, per Feb 2007 Congressional hearings

Halliburton Overcharges Classified by the Pentagon as Unreasonable and Unsupported ~ $1.4 billion

Amount paid to KBR, a former Halliburton division, to supply U.S. military in Iraq with food, fuel, housing and other items ~ $20 billion

Portion of the $20 billion paid to KBR that Pentagon auditors deem "questionable or supportable" ~ $3.2 billion

U.S. Annual Air-Conditioning Cost in Iraq and Afghanistan ~ $20.2 billion
(Source - NPR, June 25, 2011)

I'm shipping several dozen units a month into Afghanistan. I now only ship air freight because so much shit was getting stolen in Pakistan off the trucks.

Many times my freight bill is more than my equipment cost.

Which shows another example of waste. We have hundreds of C141's and C5's, why are we shipping so much shit on DHL???

[Exotix]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

I'm shipping several dozen units a month into Afghanistan. I now only ship air freight because so much shit was getting stolen in Pakistan off the trucks.

Many times my freight bill is more than my equipment cost.

Which shows another example of waste. We have hundreds of C141's and C5's, why are we shipping so much shit on DHL???

Yes it starts adding up ... what about all those luxury hotels Bush & Cheney built in Kuwait from Az Zawi to Kuwait Bay to Iran by declaring them Iraq War military spending by putting in civilian secretarys who needed 8 SUV's then after 10 miles of driving they were deemed end-life and were simply burned in burn pits so more could be ordered at $250,000 each ?

[high desert]

Even when you factor in the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, defense spending is under 5% of GDP. This is an historically low percentage and is in no way responsible for the debt our country faces. It's entitlements stupid!
Frank knows this, but liberals have to pander to their base. Party over country is the Democrat creed.

Cliffs:: Liberals suck.

[Joecooool]

Originally Posted by high desert

Even when you factor in the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, defense spending is under 5% of GDP. This is an historically low percentage and is in no way responsible for the debt our country faces. It's entitlements stupid!
Frank knows this, but liberals have to pander to their base. Party over country is the Democrat creed.

Cliffs:: Liberals suck.

Why can't the cuts come from all sectors? Why do republicans only want cuts from social security and medicare? You do realize there is a shit load of old republicans getting social security and medicare right? Its not just poor liberals.

This is the same stupid crap those tea party congressmen push and almost caused this country to default.

Everyone suffers means everyone. Cuts in entitlements, cuts in the military and increases in taxes are the only things that will keep us from driving off a cliff. Why can't you guys understand this?

[Exotix]

Originally Posted by high desert

Even when you factor in the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, defense spending is under 5% of GDP. This is an historically low percentage and is in no way responsible for the debt our country faces. It's entitlements stupid!
Frank knows this, but liberals have to pander to their base. Party over country is the Democrat creed.

Cliffs:: Liberals suck.

It's true Military Spending gives birth to inventions and technology passed on to Americans ... problem is, it's the poor people who buys them ...

[R.Zaragoza]

Originally Posted by Exotix

It's true Military Spending gives birth to inventions and technology passed on to Americans ... problem is, it's the poor people who buys them ...

Are you talking about guns?

[Exotix]

Originally Posted by R.Zaragoza

Are you talking about guns?

No need to get smart-azz about it you know what I'm talking about ... I hear the Apple stock *bubble* is destined to burst and crash sometime in the near-future ... what's the word on that ... or are you gonna schmooze me like my Merrill Lynch broker tried to do back in 2006 ?

[ChasC5]

Originally Posted by high desert

Even when you factor in the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, defense spending is under 5% of GDP. This is an historically low percentage and is in no way responsible for the debt our country faces. It's entitlements stupid!
Frank knows this, but liberals have to pander to their base. Party over country is the Democrat creed.

Cliffs:: Liberals suck.

Wow ... I agree with most of what you say ... except the highlighted part.

I honestly do beleive it's people who beleive they are entitled ... that is what is causing all the hysteria and fear in this country.

But I'm sure this to .. will pass.

[Peter Pan]

We have a spending problem, not a taxing problem, however if you libs want taxes raised, I am all for it as long as we get those not in poverty of the 47% of Americans not paying Federal Income Taxes paying there fair share, oh while we are at it GE is not paying there fair share and Obama is in bed with the CEO or is it the other way around

Every part of the budget needs to be looked at for cuts and as a retired veteran the military needs to be looked at for waste and the countrys we keep safe need to poney up $$, and I will only list a few, Germany, Japan and Korea, time to get the budget to the black and spending is the biggest problem not taxes

[ChasC5]

Originally Posted by Peter Pan

We have a spending problem, not a taxing problem, however if you libs want taxes raised, I am all for it as long as we get those not in poverty of the 47% of Americans not paying Federal Income Taxes paying there fair share, oh while we are at it GE is not paying there fair share and Obama is in bed with the CEO or is it the other way around

Every part of the budget needs to be looked at for cuts and as a retired veteran the military needs to be looked at for waste and the countrys we keep safe need to poney up $$, and I will only list a few, Germany, Japan and Korea, time to get the budget to the black and spending is the biggest problem not taxes

Yes we have a spending problems ... always did, but most did or wouldn't see it when their candidate was in office ... now we have no choice.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Peter Pan

oh while we are at it GE is not paying there fair share..

And again... I will quote the previous times I have responded to this comment from you.

You have said this multiple times now.

The article stating that GE paid zero taxes (and actually instead recieved money) that was originally published by the N.Y. Times has been shown time and time again to be simply false.

The truth about GE's tax bill - Fortune Features

The truth about GE’s tax bill - The Washington Post

Personally I believe what the writers at Fortune have to say over the NY Times.

GE uses very aggressive tax avoidance strategies. Nobody would deny that, but that is about where his article stops being correct.


Consider that GE currently has ~135,000 American employees and since the beginning of 2009, with almost every single American corporation downsizing, GE has created ~8,000 new jobs in the U.S. and has invested over a billion dollars into American production facilities.

Seems to me like this is as close to proof as you will ever get that lower corporate taxes drives hiring and leads to more revenue.

- More products made in America
-135,000 people worth of income taxes collected.
-135,000 people not on unemployment.
-135,000 families not on food stamps, welfare, etc.

You point at GE as what is wrong with this country. Looks to me like GE is one of the few corporations actually helping the economy right now.

Proctor and Gamble, Boeing, L-3, Siemens, Hewlett-Packard ... you name it... ALL of them are cutting American jobs. Why? Because it is cheaper and more profitible for them to go elsewhere. If you want jobs to stay here or to be created here you have to make it profitible for companies to do so. It is a very simple concept. The point of business is to make money, and they will go to where that is most likely to happen. Don't blame the companies for leaving. Blame the government and the lawmakers that are forcing them to.

Taxing business is simply not the answer. If you tax business, the only thing that happens is that those businesses either A.) pass on that price in their products or B.) pack up and go somewhere else. It is simple economics. We have union workers getting paid $25/hr to do minimum wage jobs. We have forced spending on healthcare programs, unemployment programs, etc, etc, etc. We have made it an absolutely stupid business decision to stay here. Until that changes, businesses will continue to leave, unemployment will continue to rise, and the economy will continue to suffer.

Please enlighten me as to how you see what is pretty much the only major corporation in the US that is investing money here, as well as pretty much the only one that is hiring here as the villain in all of this?

[VITE1]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

Why can't the cuts come from all sectors? Why do republicans only want cuts from social security and medicare? You do realize there is a shit load of old republicans getting social security and medicare right? Its not just poor liberals.

This is the same stupid crap those tea party congressmen push and almost caused this country to default.

Everyone suffers means everyone. Cuts in entitlements, cuts in the military and increases in taxes are the only things that will keep us from driving off a cliff. Why can't you guys understand this?

Gates starts outlining cuts to save $100 billion for defense

So we already cut 100 Billion from their budget. Yet the rest grow and grow. Where is the shared pain?

Where are the Welfare cuts? Where are the cuts to SSDI ( which was never funded and both Dem and Pubs Senators said was underfunded).

And there you go again about increased taxes. How about looking at the history of tax rates VS revenue in this country. Raise the tax rates and revenue does not go up. In most cases it goes DOWN. Do it now and people and business with money move it out and then you got nothing.

[BuckyThreadkiller]

Originally Posted by ChasC5

The Military Budget; if you don’t support it, you’re weak and Un-American.

It’s how our Politicians play their little games in their own personal Money Sand-Box.

As opposed to "targeting the poor" or "balancing the budget on the backs of the elderly"?

Spinning - it's easy and fun - try it with your favorite position.

[BuckyThreadkiller]

Originally Posted by Exotix

Heck they aren't even Reaganites anymore after *How many times was the Debt-Ceiling Raised by The Gipper ?*

That's because when a Republican President asks a Democratic Congress to raise the debt ceiling, they see it as nothing more than adding more checks to the checkbook.

But when a Republican Congress happens along then there is some actual consideration of the costs involved, debate ensues, hand wringing even.

It should be against the law for there to be a national debt. Until that happens we are fundamentally screwed because people will vote for the folks that send them someone else's money in return for doing nothing.

[Peter Pan]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

And again... I will quote the previous times I have responded to this comment from you.



Please enlighten me as to how you see what is pretty much the only major corporation in the US that is investing money here, as well as pretty much the only one that is hiring here as the villain in all of this?

Samuels said at a tax forum in February that GE needs a tax system that will let it compete effectively with giant, foreign-based multinationals like Mitsubishi, Siemens (SI), and Phillips. However, their effective tax rates for earnings purposes last year were 40%, 31% and 26% respectively, compared with 7% for GE. (GE says its tax rate's been artificially low the past few years, and will soon rise.)

From the Fortune add, I will now show GE is only paying 7% and not there fair share vs not paying any taxes at all, but then GE has not come to bat publically on this issue, why? Because they do not pay there fair share vs this taxpayer who is not a millionare. Millionare's pay much more than 7% as Obama wants there level to go from 35% to 39%

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Peter Pan

Samuels said at a tax forum in February that GE needs a tax system that will let it compete effectively with giant, foreign-based multinationals like Mitsubishi, Siemens (SI), and Phillips. However, their effective tax rates for earnings purposes last year were 40%, 31% and 26% respectively, compared with 7% for GE. (GE says its tax rate's been artificially low the past few years, and will soon rise.)

From the Fortune add, I will now show GE is only paying 7% and not there fair share vs not paying any taxes at all, but then GE has not come to bat publically on this issue, why? Because they do not pay there fair share vs this taxpayer who is not a millionare. Millionare's pay much more than 7% as Obama wants there level to go from 35% to 39%

Great. You still didn't answer the question.

Please enlighten me as to how you see what is pretty much the only major corporation in the US that is investing money here, as well as pretty much the only one that is hiring here as the villain in all of this?

The answer is simple. They aren't the villain and they are a living example of what needs to be done for a corporation to be profitable here. You want to bring the economy back? YOU HAVE TO MAKE BUSINESSES WANT TO BE HERE. It is a simple concept.

Not to mention, you forgot one other very important little part of my comment that is absolutely true. Taxing business does NOTHING other than hurt the consumer. If they pay more out in taxes, they charge more for the product which meant that the non-millionaire is the one who ends up paying anyway. It isn't too hard to figure that out. GE just lost $$ per refrigerator in Energy Star program tax credit cuts. The same amount was lost by Kenmore, Whirlpool, and all other American brands. Do a little research. What happened to the price of refrigerators in the last 6 months? Here's a hint. All American brands increased prices to consumers for products that went unchanged. Funny how that works.

Or the other option is to tax the hell out of them and then watch the layoffs happen, the business moved overseas, and in the end you are left with ZERO revenue.

[Peter Pan]

Not to mention, you forgot one other very important little part of my comment that is absolutely true. Taxing business does NOTHING other than hurt the consumer. If they pay more out in taxes, they charge more for the product which meant that the non-millionaire is the one who ends up paying anyway. It isn't too hard to figure that out.

So why are the oil companies evil? The Federal Govt makes more per gallon of gas I use then they do? Or the insurance companies that avg 5-10% profit, what small business can make it with those margins? Not the one I run, that is why I have zero employees vs 2 in 2008, profit margin of 10% I would be out of business.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Peter Pan

So why are the oil companies evil? The Federal Govt makes more per gallon of gas I use then they do? Or the insurance companies that avg 5-10% profit, what small business can make it with those margins? Not the one I run, that is why I have zero employees vs 2 in 2008, profit margin of 10% I would be out of business.

I have never been on the "evil oil company" bandwagon.