The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

I'm sure I could probably piece it together with a scan through the last 2 pages, but what is your proposed solution for the "TP" issue?

How about...can't sell without a retail license? That would be a start.

I'd prefer that the seller just get their ass kicked and left bloody by the roadside, but there's probably no legal precedent for that.

I fully support the TP companies raising prices to cover overtime, to cover the reallocation of resources to ramp up production, and revenue losses for other products that have to be ramped down to increase TP production. That is all reasonable.

The douchebag with a Ryder truck full of TP at $35.00 a roll can go **** a broken brick.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Aerovette

How about...can't sell without a retail license? That would be a start.

Well, for starters, that's already a thing. You need a retail license, tax certificates, etc (usually both at the state and local level) to legally sell just about anything.

Originally Posted by Aerovette

I'd prefer that the seller just get their ass kicked and left bloody by the roadside, but there's probably no legal precedent for that.

I fully support the TP companies raising prices to cover overtime, to cover the reallocation of resources to ramp up production, and revenue losses for other products that have to be ramped down to increase TP production. That is all reasonable.

The douchebag with a Ryder truck full of TP at $35.00 a roll can go **** a broken brick.

So... the answer is to beat them up?

It's already illegal to do what you describe.

https://www.constantcontact.com/blog...ness-licenses/

[ptindall]

Originally Posted by Aerovette

I fully support the TP companies raising prices to cover overtime, to cover the reallocation of resources to ramp up production, and revenue losses for other products that have to be ramped down to increase TP production. That is all reasonable.

What about raise them a little more for some profit, is that okay?

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by LATB

And you want the government to step in and make sure that doesn’t happen.

I support a law that standardizes listing prices of vehicles. You know very well that dealerships try to mislead in their listing. Sure, not all of them do but many do.. Listing a price with discounts that most can't get is misleading customers. Listing the price of a car but omitting that the car has had dealer add ons done that add thousands to the cost is another example. Some dealers list cars and the price listed does not include dealer add ons.. Then you show up, the same car is thousands of $ more for cheap items that the dealer added at a huge mark up. It is 100% clear that those tactics are meant to mislead customers to get them into the door so that their sales game can bamboozle them into buying something that they don't want or need. Just because most people are stupid and ignorant still doesn't make it right to take advantage of that and mislead them.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Kevin68

Sorry, you do not support free markets nor understand them. Prices are simply a signal - information - about the relative scarcity of a good. That is how producers know what to produce and in what quantity.

You think you know which price or profit margin is too high or excessive is too much, but that is not a the same number for everyone. Price is relative to supply and demand. Low supply/high prices/high demand are three ways of saying the same thing. Distort any one of them and chaos ensues.

If you CREATE a shortage so that you can sell your item for more is unethical and wrong. The supply shortage on toilet paper was CREATED.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by ptindall

Stop lying.

Protecting customers from being misled is not opposing a free market.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

And by "fine print" you mean really big at the top of the page.

And by "not ok" you mean that you want government to regulate private businesses and control all content on websites.


Admit it, the price for your "marked up" car was on the website... and you didn't take the time to look before you drove your 80 miles.

Their website only showed MSRP, not sales price. The only price on their website said: $48000 MSRP. No sales price was listed on any of their vehicles. All that it showed was MSRP.
Again, all that was done to get people into the door so that they can use their sleazy sales game on them. Unfortunately, too many people get bamboozled by sales people.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I support a law that standardizes listing prices of vehicles. You know very well that dealerships try to mislead in their listing. Sure, not all of them do but many do.. Listing a price with discounts that most can't get is misleading customers. Listing the price of a car but omitting that the car has had dealer add ons done that add thousands to the cost is another example. Some dealers list cars and the price listed does not include dealer add ons.. Then you show up, the same car is thousands of $ more for cheap items that the dealer added at a huge mark up. It is 100% clear that those tactics are meant to mislead customers to get them into the door so that their sales game can bamboozle them into buying something that they don't want or need. Just because most people are stupid and ignorant still doesn't make it right to take advantage of that and mislead them.

You really are spun up about nothing.

Those add on’s are negotiable. And everyone knows it. Many are happy to pay for pinstripes and fabric protection. If those add on’s are something that you don’t want you can negotiate or move on to another vehicle/dealership.

[ptindall]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Protecting customers from being misled is not opposing a free market.

That's not the only thing you've been arguing for. And I only read about 1/4 of what you type.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

If you CREATE a shortage so that you can sell your item for more is unethical and wrong. The supply shortage on toilet paper was CREATED.

So if you had the only available rental home in your area and there were a dozen people who wanted it including some who would willingly pay more than you expected, you would not make the market adjustment and lease for the higher amount?

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

And by "fine print" you mean really big at the top of the page.

And by "not ok" you mean that you want government to regulate private businesses and control all content on websites.


Admit it, the price for your "marked up" car was on the website... and you didn't take the time to look before you drove your 80 miles.

What's wrong with requiring to list the price that anyone will qualify for?

They can add all the conditional discounts in the description instead of the other way around?

That's not anti free market. That's protecting customers from being misled.

Example:

Total vehicle price before sales tax: $49000 (this is the number that should be required to come up in any autotrader/cars.com etc. etc. search

Break down:
Vehicle price: $47000
Dealer add ons: $1500
Dealer Fee: $1000
Destination charge: $1500

Less Discount applicable to all:
$2000 manufacturer rebate

Available conditional discounts:
$7500 EV Tax credit (for individuals making under $150k or couples making under $300k)
$2000 trade in credit (if you trade in a car worth more than $5000)
$1000 financing discount (if you finance with us, you will get $1000 off the price)
$1000 dealer discount for First Responders (you most be currently employed as first responder (fire fighter, police, ambulance)
$500 student discount. You have to be currently enrolled in college

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Protecting customers from being misled is not opposing a free market.

Again, you have not posted any evidence of this misleading claim.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I support a law that standardizes listing prices of vehicles. You know very well that dealerships try to mislead in their listing. Sure, not all of them do but many do.. Listing a price with discounts that most can't get is misleading customers. Listing the price of a car but omitting that the car has had dealer add ons done that add thousands to the cost is another example. Some dealers list cars and the price listed does not include dealer add ons.. Then you show up, the same car is thousands of $ more for cheap items that the dealer added at a huge mark up. It is 100% clear that those tactics are meant to mislead customers to get them into the door so that their sales game can bamboozle them into buying something that they don't want or need. Just because most people are stupid and ignorant still doesn't make it right to take advantage of that and mislead them.

So to clarify, you want the government to regulate what can be posted on the internet as well as printed media. You want that regulation revolve around any information that could be deemed to be "misleading" using the dumbest person as the standard... even if what is posted is 100% true and factual.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I was always a capitalist.. I thought that I was a conservative but I really never was. I've always been a Libertarian.

You are neither of those things.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by LATB

So if you had the only available rental home in your area and there were a dozen people who wanted it including some who would willingly pay more than you expected, you would not make the market adjustment and lease for the higher amount?

I will charge whatever fair market rent in my area is for a home of that size/bedrooms.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I will charge whatever fair market rent in my area is for a home of that size/bedrooms.

And that is exactly what car dealers do. Why is it ok for you but not for them?

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

What's wrong with requiring to list the price that anyone will qualify for?

They can add all the conditional discounts in the description instead of the other way around?

That's not anti free market. That's protecting customers from being misled.

Example:

Total vehicle price before sales tax: $49000
Break down:
Vehicle price: $47000
Dealer add ons: $1500
Dealer Fee: $1000
Destination charge: $1500

Discount applicable to all:
$2000 manufacturer rebate

Available conditional discounts:
$7500 EV Tax credit (for individuals making under $150k or couples making under $300k)
$2000 trade in credit (if you trade in a car worth more than $5000)
$1000 financing discount (if you finance with us, you will get $1000 off the price)
$1000 dealer discount for First Responders (you most be currently employed as first responder (fire fighter, police, ambulance)
$500 student discount. You have to be currently enrolled in college

Are you really having a hard time understanding what's wrong with THE F**KING GOVERNMENT regulating and dictating what is posted on the internet?

Libertarian.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Are you really having a hard time understanding what's wrong with THE F**KING GOVERNMENT regulating and dictating what is posted on the internet?

Libertarian.

Government should protect customers. That's not an interference in a free market. That's protecting customers from being MISLED!

[MadInNc]

GrandSportCS. = 0
WGAF. = (infinite). Winning

[Kevin68]

You are 100% free to tell him to **** a broken brick. I would too. But somebody isn't.

Locking people down and telling them to not go to work is what created the TP crisis. The hoarders were reacting to it.

And since the strawmen are coming out to play, yes, your hunger level should be a consideration in what you are willing to pay for food (but you are under no obligation to disclose). You and GSC3 want mommy to protect you from the bad man.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Government should protect customers. That's not an interference in a free market. That's protecting customers from being MISLED!

"Libertarian"

OK. What's the penalty for someone posting a "misleading" advertisement? "Misleading" of course being something that clearly spells out exactly what is happening but is somehow beyond your crayon and construction paper comprehension level.