The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by SurfnSun

I have owned white cars for the last decade or more.

I got a black loaner SUV from Cadillac this week, no tinted windows. I was stunned by how much hotter that car is. I can only imagine that windshield with no tint being terrible.

I love black cars but the difference in how hot the car gets is huge.
One thing that is important to me is the color of the seats. Black leather seats are the worst. I have burnt myself so many times when I had my F150 FX2 Supercrew. While light seats require more work to keep them looking clean, I would not want to go back to any dark colored seats. Makes a huge difference.
My Model X has this huge windshield. I have a reflective cover for the upper part of the windshield that I install late spring and only remove it in November. It makes a huge difference when it comes to AC use. With the cover installed, my AC has to work a lot less hard.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Come on... There is a reason why virtually every highway exit has food joints. It's because most people stop for food on road trips.

Yes. And there's a reason that almost every one of them are called FAST food and they have have drive-thrus.

What you somehow can't seem to grasp is the difference between stopping, and stopping for an hour or more. It's not the same thing.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

They don't travel shotgun style without breaks

Nobody said that people don't take breaks.

STOP. MAKING. SHIT. UP.

There it is. There's EXACTLY what I was talking about. There's that bullshit fallacy that you keep pushing to try to minimize the negative aspects. You can't help it. Stopping for food or a piss break is NOT the same things as stopping for an hour because you have to go charge your car multiple times on a trip.

I eat just as many "hot meals" as you do on a trip. I'm 100% certain that I actually eat better given that I can stop anywhere I want and am not limited to places with chargers. I can also do it in a fraction of the time. I don't drive "shotgun style". I take plenty of breaks. I stop. I rest when needed.
You somehow being incapable of comprehending the difference between stopping as needed ... and sitting for hours because your car forces you to do so is beyond absurd.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

If you are a business, you need your work vehicles to perform a job. It does not matter if they have perfect panel gaps or if the cup holder doesn't stay retracted or that weatherstripping is coming loose.
Not sure about frequency of engine failure but it is a statistical FACT that the average car lasts 200k miles.

https://cascadecollision.com/blog/wh...%2C000%20miles.

Statistical fact? You do know what that term means, right?

Your version of a "statistical FACT" is a website for a body shop with no actual statistics that claims "interior detailing is key to the longevity of your vehicle"?

Holy shit.

There is absolutely nothing whatsoever in there that is a "statistical FACT".

Regardless of any of that, what point do you think that makes?

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

It doesn't really matter what the cause is that cars are scrapped. It's usually because repairs at that mileage exceed the value of the car. That's when most cars are scrapped.

Who in the hell is talking about SCRAPPING the car? You are trying to deflect... as usual... from the very simple truth that shit is going to break, and when it does, it is more expensive.

You keep pushing this no maintenance, infinite reliability narrative. It's absolute bullshit.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I owned very very few cars that I owned past 150k miles. Last high mileage cars were my wife's Grand Caravan which we kept to 220k or 230k miles or so and a Silverado 1500 V6 that had 170k miles. I had so many issues with that truck.. Engine and transmission were fine but lots of issues with injectors, fuel system and many other issues. I was wrenching on that thing all the time. Had I paid a mechanic for all the work I did, I would have exceeded the value of the truck many times.

Oh look. Another deflection and another sample size of 1. Shocking.

I've driven a 1999 Yukon to 300k miles with nothing whatsoever that prevented it from driving. My last Yukon is with the new owner and going strong at 260k. My 01 Yukon was at 250k the last I saw it.

I put less maintenance dollars in all 3 of them combined than it would take to replace 1 Tesla motor. What's your point?

Which brings us right back to the topic that you keep trying to deflect from.
Your argument that a fleet of Cyber"trucks" will go hundreds of thousands of miles without needing any maintenance and without breaking is complete f**king bullshit.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Yes. And there's a reason that almost every one of them are called FAST food and they have have drive-thrus.

What you somehow can't seem to grasp is the difference between stopping. And stopping for an hour or more. It's not the same thing.

Go into any of those fast food joints at breakfast, lunch and dinner time and you will see that the INSIDE is packed just like the drive through. While many use the drive through, many also eat inside, especially those with kids.

Nobody said that people don't take breaks. There it is. There's EXACTLY what I was talking about. There's that bullshit fallacy that you keep pushing. Stopping for food or a piss break is NOT the same things as stopping for an hour because you have to go charge your car multiple times on a trip.

Nobody in a Tesla charges 1 hours. Even when I charged from 3% to 98%, it only took 45 mins. On a FULL DAY of driving, 1000 miles, I had 2 long stops (45 mins for breakfast and lunch) and a 20 min stop for a quick snack and an 11 minute bathroom stop. That's not much different than the stops we did with our gas cars. Do you have more food choices with a gas car? Sure, but you get plenty of choices with a Tesla as well. As I said, even before EV's, we usually stopped at least a total of 2 hours for a 1000 mile trip.

I eat just as many "hot meals" as you do on a trip. I don't drive "shotgun style". I take plenty of breaks. How you can't seem to comprehend the difference between stopping ... and sitting for hours is absurd.

Nobody is sitting for hours. If you only charge to 80%, most charges are under 25 minutes. I choose to charge to a higher charge because it works better for my travel style of having less but longer stops. With 2 kids, meals take more time.

Statistical fact? You do know what that term means, right?

Your version of a "statistical FACT" is a website for a body shop with no references and no actual statistics that claims "interior detailing is key to the longevity of your vehicle"?


Holy shit.

There is absolutely nothing whatsoever in there that is a "statistical FACT".

Regardless of any of that, what point do you think that makes?

Just because "some" vehicles last longer doesn't make it the rule.. I can post many different links which all say the same. The average car lives 200k miles before it is scrapped..

https://www.progressive.com/answers/...es-a-car-last/

Who in the hell is talking about SCRAPPING the car? You are trying to deflect... as usual... from the very simple truth that shit is going to break, and when it does, it is more expensive.

You keep pushing this no maintenance, infinite reliability narrative. It's absolute bullshit.

Scrapping is the end of the life of most vehicles.

Oh look. Another deflection and another sample size of 1. Shocking.

I've driven a 1999 Yukon to 300k miles with nothing whatsoever that prevented it from driving. My last Yukon is with the new owner and going strong at 260k. My 01 Yukon was at 250k the last I saw it.

I put less maintenance dollars in all 3 of them combined than it would take to replace 1 Tesla motor. What's your point?

Which brings us right back to the topic that you keep trying to deflect from.
Your argument that a fleet of Cyber"trucks" will go hundreds of thousands of miles without needing any maintenance and without breaking is complete f**king bullshit.

As I said, I can provide many links. The average car lasts 200k miles.

I personally would not consider keeping any vehicle past 150k miles. Things will break. Even if motor and transmission still run.. There are things that break. Starter motor, air conditioning etc. etc. Many repairs for a high mileage car often means that it will get scrapped because if someone can't do their own work, the repair bill often exceeds a high mileage car's value.

[RedLS1GTO]

I'm not going to dive back in to what is without question the dumbest f**king argument in the history of the internet about eating "hot meals" and traveling with kids other than to say that you're completely full of shit. The number of people that use drive-thrus is significantly higher than those who go in. No. Normal people, kids or not, don't go sit for an hour in McDonalds multiple times per trip.

Which leads us to this:

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I personally would not consider keeping any vehicle past 150k miles. Things will break. Even if motor and transmission still run.. There are things that break. Starter motor, air conditioning etc. etc. Many repairs for a high mileage car often means that it will get scrapped because if someone can't do their own work, the repair bill often exceeds a high mileage car's value.

What in the hell is your point? You keep making the claim that the Cyber"truck" will somehow perform a fleet role for hundreds of thousands of miles with no maintenance and nothing breaking. Which is absolute bullshit.

You keep talking about how other cars break. You really think that none of that shit is going to break on a Tesla? You really think that a car with the build quality of a Geo is somehow going to miraculously last longer than everything else on the road? Guess what. It will break. And when it breaks on a Cyber"truck" it's going to cost a hell of a lot more than an F150.

I am truly shocked that you deflected completely from that point.

Again.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

I'm not going to dive back in to what is without question the dumbest f**king argument in the history of the internet about eating "hot meals" and traveling with kids other than to say that you're completely full of shit. The number of people that use drive-thrus is significantly higher than those who go in. No. Normal people, kids or not, don't go sit for an hour in McDonalds multiple times per trip.

Which leads us to this:



What in the hell is your point? You keep making the claim that the Cyber"truck" will somehow perform a fleet role for hundreds of thousands of miles with no maintenance and nothing breaking. Which is absolute bullshit.

You keep talking about how other cars break. You really think that none of that shit is going to break on a Tesla? You really think that a car with the build quality of a Geo is somehow going to miraculously last longer than everything else on the road? Guess what. It will break. And when it breaks on a Cyber"truck" it's going to cost a hell of a lot more than an F150.

I am truly shocked that you deflected completely from that point.

Again.

So, you think that a business with a truck fleet will keep them until they have 200k++ miles on them? I doubt it. They will likely sell their high mileage trucks and get new ones every few years. A business that has multiple trucks can use the write off they get. A break down of a truck means loss of productivity. The Cybertruck has a better warranty than any other truck.
Larger businesses replace their fleet every 3 years or so.
At 50k miles per year, this means that most of the Cybertrucks will have powertrain warranty for the entire time
https://www.ntea.com/NTEA/NTEA/Membe...%20fleet%20age.

It's not necessarily the Cybertruck. The F150 Lightning is a great option too and can be bought for just over $42k.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

... The payment on the Cybertruck is $900. If the company uses each truck for 55k miles per year, ... For the first 72 months, the saving is only $354 PER TRUCK, $3540 for 10 trucks. After 72 months, the savings is $654 per truck per month or $7848 per truck per year or $78480 of savings for all 10 trucks per year.

Will you make up your mind as to what the hell your argument actually is?

First... you argue thta the Cyber"truck" will save $78k per year AFTER 72 MONTHS of 55k MILES PER YEAR.

Those are your words. Your math. It is not twisted. It is not spun. It is what YOU said.

After 72 months. 55k miles per year. AFTER 330k miles, businesses would be saving $7848 per year.

But now...

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

So, you think that a business with a truck fleet will keep them until they have 200k++ miles on them? I doubt it.

...

Larger businesses replace their fleet every 3 years or so.
At 50k miles per year, this means that most of the Cybertrucks will have powertrain warranty for the entire time

You doubt it? You're not only the one said it, you used it as the entire basis for the stupid ass argument about how much you could save with a fleet of them.

That was a quick change from maintenance free massive savings for a fleet of 10 after 6 years to having to replace them every 3 years to keep them in warranty.


So much for those big savings.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Will you make up your mind as to what the hell your argument actually is?

First... you argue thta the Cyber"truck" will save $78k per year AFTER 72 MONTHS of 55k MILES PER YEAR.

Those are your words. Your math. It is not twisted. It is not spun. It is what YOU said.

After 72 months. 55k miles per year. AFTER 330k miles, businesses would be saving $7848 per year.

But now...



They're going to sell them after 3 years and buy new ones.

Many large businesses do just that. They sell every few years as they don't want down time due to trucks breaking down. Also, from a tax perspective, a larger company can use the write offs that new trucks provide.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Many large businesses do just that. They sell every few years as they don't want down time due to trucks breaking down. Also, from a tax perspective, a larger company can use the write offs that new trucks provide.

So which is it?

Originally Posted by YOU

If the company uses each truck for 55k miles per year ... After 72 months, the savings is $654 per truck per month or $7848 per truck per year or $78480 of savings for all 10 trucks per year.

Originally Posted by ALSO YOU

They sell every few years as they don't want down time due to trucks breaking down.

You're arguing against yourself at this point.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

So which is it?




You're arguing against yourself at this point.

I nowhere said that they will keep them that long. If they'd do that, that would be their savings. Some may keep them that long, others won't.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I nowhere said that they will keep them that long. If they'd do that, that would be their savings. Some may keep them that long, others won't.

You never said it? Really? That's your argument?

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

The only items in there are to test the brake fluid every year and to replace the cabin air filter. That's it for the life of the car. ....

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I wouldn't care if after 7 years, you only get 440 miles..

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

In 7 years...

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

If the company uses each truck for 55k miles per year,...For the first 72 months, the saving is only $354 PER TRUCK... After 72 months, the savings is $654 per truck...

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Teslas last a very long time if properly taken care off. Especially at a business where they are charged daily, that should not be an issue. The new 4680 cells should last over 500k miles ... No maintenance on Cybertrucks.

You never said it??? It was the entire basis of your absolutely idiotic argument about how much a company could save.

Holy shit.

[RedLS1GTO]

Now why don't you go ahead and re-do your math including the depreciation of the Cyber"trucks" vs. the F150 over 3 years.

Just for fun, let's include the insurance premiums to cover a fleet of $80k trucks vs a fleet of $40k trucks. Although based on your previous comments about dealerships, we already know that you don't have the slightest clue how business insurance policies work.

In the end, the answer is very simple. The argument that you keep trying to make that a company, be it landscaping, plumbing, construction, or anything else big or small will somehow save money by switching to a fleet of Cyber"trucks" vs a fleet of F150s or any other 1/2 ton is absolute bullshit.

You make shit up. You twist. You change. You deflect. You simply dismiss facts that you don't like. You minimize every negative. You are absolutely incapable of acknowledging the flaws of EVs. You are hellbent on trying to make some absurd argument that they are an amazing solution. The zealotry towards the subject is disturbing. You do everything you possibly can to support your narrative. You do absolutely everything except accepting reality.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

You never said it? Really? That's your argument?








You never said it??? It was the entire basis of your absolutely idiotic argument about how much a company could save.

Holy shit.

All I presented was the math behind it. Those who will keep them that long will likely experience those savings. I personally rarely keep vehicles past their warranty but I'm not a large business.

BTW, Cybertruck production is ramping up nicely..

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Now why don't you go ahead and re-do your math including the depreciation of the Cyber"trucks" vs. the F150 over 3 years.

Just for fun, let's include the insurance premiums to cover a fleet of $80k trucks vs a fleet of $40k trucks. Although based on your previous comments about dealerships, we already know that you don't have the slightest clue how business insurance policies work.

In the end, the answer is very simple. The argument that you keep trying to make that a company, be it landscaping, plumbing, construction, or anything else big or small will somehow save money by switching to a fleet of Cyber"trucks" vs a fleet of F150s or any other 1/2 ton is absolute bullshit.

You make shit up. You twist. You change. You deflect. You simply dismiss facts that you don't like. You minimize every negative. You are absolutely incapable of acknowledging the flaws of EVs. You are hellbent on trying to make some absurd argument that they are an amazing solution. The zealotry towards the subject is disturbing. You do everything you possibly can to support your narrative. You do absolutely everything except accepting reality.

We don't know the depreciation of the Cybertruck yet. Right now, they are selling well above the price that Tesla is selling them for.

BTW, it doesn't have to be a Cybertruck. F150 Lightning start in the low $40k range for individuals and just around $50k for businesses. Only down side of the F150 is 50k miles shorter battery warranty.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

We don't know the depreciation of the Cybertruck yet. Right now, they are selling well above the price that Tesla is selling them for.

How is a Tesla, any new Tesla, “selling well above the price that Tesla is selling them for?”

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

How is a Tesla, any new Tesla, “selling well above the price that Tesla is selling them for?”

I'm talking about resale prices.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I'm talking about resale prices.

Huh? According to various sources (since Tesla won’t say) there are maybe 1,500 Cybertrucks on the roads. That’s not much of a resale market.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

Huh? According to various sources (since Tesla won’t say) there are maybe 1,500 Cybertrucks on the roads. That’s not much of a resale market.

That's why resale prices are high. We will find out in a few years how resale prices will end up. One thing is certain. Those who bought the Founders edition for a $20k premium will lose a lot if they keep it until there is no longer a wait to get one.

[TheHammer]

WTF is Founders Edition? Owners that overpaid to be the first year of **** ups edition? 1st year Beta losers?

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by TheHammer

WTF is Founders Edition? Owners that overpaid to be the first year of **** ups edition? 1st year Beta losers?

Gotta pay extra to own an early version of the ugliest vehicle ever made.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

You never said it? Really? That's your argument?









You never said it??? It was the entire basis of your absolutely idiotic argument about how much a company could save.

Holy shit.

Taken out of context. I said that if there was a 500 to 600 mile version, I would keep the truck longer. There is no such version yet.