The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread

[Vandelay Industries]

Do only suckers buy EVs? Brakes and tires on EVs release 1,850 times more particle pollution compared to modern tailpipes.

[Onebadcad]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Nobody knows what the price will be for the top trim.. With cold thrusters etc., I can't see how it could be under $1M but I'd expect a low 7 second 1/4 mile time. Certainly not a car that would be legal at the drag strip except for private track rentals.

I do not see anyone paying $1M for a roadster regardless of power and 0-60/0-100 times.

I think maximum sales, and profits, would be around a $250K selling price.

My b-i-l has been eyeing this for years, and doubt he is a buyer at $1M.

For $1M I would get a 911, a McLaren, C8Z, BlackWing V, C7ZR1 and Escalade.

[Onebadcad]

Originally Posted by Vandelay Industries

Do only suckers buy EVs? Brakes and tires on EVs release 1,850 times more particle pollution compared to modern tailpipes.

The dirty hidden secrect that your GOV does not want you to know.
They hired the china vaccine folks to help hide it from you.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Equally skilled drivers, a Model Y Performance will post better lap times on a road course than a X5, guaranteed.

And yet more opinion and conjecture with no facts to back it up. You have that skill mastered.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

And yet more opinion and conjecture with no facts to back it up. You have that skill mastered.

Here is a Model Y Performance vs. a Sports Car (C8 Vette) on a road course..
Yes, the Vette is slightly faster but if the MYP can hang with a Vette, a X5 won't stand a chance.

YouTube (Short URL)

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

You understand that performance and luxury are 2 different things?

You do understand that performance and luxury can exist at the same time?

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Also, let's compare actual luxury features. Which features for example does a X5 have that a Model Y does not have?

1 is built like a 1993 Geo Metro both in terms of build quality and materials. 1 is built like a modern high end luxury vehicle. I'll let you guess which is which.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Ratings are biased. Usually, brands that advertise do better in reviews if they are advertising on the reviewers site.

Keep telling yourself that's why the Tesla didn't even make the list.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

We were talking about Performance SUV's and you bring a list of Luxury SUV's

WE? Who in the hell is WE? WE weren't. You're the only one that keeps using these idiotic "categories" (that you can't even define) to try to spin shit.

The Tesla Model Y is a basic ass piece of shit SUV that happens to go fast in a straight line.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Equally skilled drivers, a Model Y Performance will post better lap times on a road course than a X5, guaranteed. Yes, there are many components to performance and all components combined make the Model Y a better performing car. The Model Y will post better lap times and run better times at the 1/4 mile. BTW, the Model X is almost 1000 lbs heavier than the Model Y..

Stick to talking about things that you actually know something about. When it comes to anything even remotely related to a road course, you are absolutely f**king clueless. Even if it could manage to run 1 lap faster, it sure as shit can't do it for any amount of time. You are completely incapable of understanding anything beyond a singular number. 1 lap doesn't make something a better performance vehicle. Horsepower doesn't make something a better performance vehicle. 1/4 doesn't make something a better performance vehicle. Despite your inability to grasp anything beyond that, it is not that simple. If you watch that video and don't see the problem with the Tesla, there is nothing else left to say. You really are completely incapable of critical thinking at even the most basic level. Clearly no amount of facts or information is going to change that.

The most absurd part, the thing that is absolutely mind blowing at this point... is that you still can't get it through your f**king head that none of that shit matters to 99% of the people buying SUVs. People buying a BMW or a Mercedes care about the seats. They care about the type of leather. They care about how it looks (lol Tesla), they care about how it feels. They care about the wheels. They care about about a very long list of things that aren't horsepower. Go ask a few X5M owners whether they care that the Tesla is faster in a straight line. They don't walk into a BMW dealership and ask how much horsepower the X5 has. They don't ask what the skidpad number is. They don't ask how fast it can run a lap on whatever track. That shit. Doesn't. Matter.

I've met some dense people in my life but holy shit, you are on a whole new level.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Onebadcad

I do not see anyone paying $1M for a roadster regardless of power and 0-60/0-100 times.

I think maximum sales, and profits, would be around a $250K selling price.

My b-i-l has been eyeing this for years, and doubt he is a buyer at $1M.

For $1M I would get a 911, a McLaren, C8Z, BlackWing V, C7ZR1 and Escalade.

The Roadster will be sold out for many years. This won't be a high volume production vehicle and regardless of price, if it is the world's quickest car, every millionaire/billionaire who likes cars will get one as they want the latest and greatest.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

You do understand that performance and luxury can exist at the same time?



1 is built like a 1993 Geo Metro both in terms of build quality and materials. 1 is built like a modern high end luxury vehicle. I'll let you guess which is which.



Keep telling yourself that's why the Tesla didn't even make the list.



WE? Who in the hell is WE? WE weren't. You're the only one that keeps using these idiotic "categories" to try to spin shit.

The Tesla Model Y is a basic ass piece of shit SUV that happens to go fast in a straight line.



Stick to talking about things that you actually know something about. When it comes to anything even remotely related to a road course, you are absolutely f**king clueless. If you watch that video and don't see the problem with the Tesla, there is nothing else left to say. You really are completely incapable of critical thinking at even the most basic level. Clearly no amount of facts or information is going to change that.

The most absurd part, the thing that is absolutely mind blowing at this point... is that you still can't get it through your f**king head that none of that shit matters to 99% of the people buying SUVs. People buying a BMW or a Mercedes care about the seats. They care about the type of leather.
They care about a long list of things that aren't horsepower. They don't walk into a BMW dealership and ask how much horsepower the X5 has. They don't ask what the skidpad number is. They don't ask how fast it can run a lap on whatever track. That shit. Doesn't. Matter.

I've met some dense people in my life but holy shit, you are on a whole new level.

You are stuck in the past. Build quality has come a long way and current production Model Y are considerably better built than when they were first released. Tesla doesn't advertise and therefore won't get preferential treatment from reviewers. Follow the money.. It's that simple. Performance and Luxury are 2 different things. I remember when I had my Testarossa. That car was bare bones with virtually no luxury features except for power windows but nobody cared because of it's performance. The Model Y is a performance vehicle and a RAV 4 or CRV are not. That's just a fact and that's regardless if RAV 4 buyers care about performance or not. For most people, a car purchase is to buy a necessity that has to perform a certain function. Budget oriented buyers will go for a RAV 4 or CRV and those who care more about performance will go with the Model Y .

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Budget oriented buyers will go for a RAV 4 or CRV and those who care more about performance will go with the Model Y .

Yup, because there are no other SUVs except those. I guess someone who cares about performance doesn't even consider the Durango SRT Hellcat, which is interesting. This just keeps getting sillier with every response you post.

[Onebadcad]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Equally skilled drivers, a Model Y Performance will post better lap times on a road course than a X5, guaranteed. Yes, there are many components to performance and all components combined make the Model Y a better performing car. The Model Y will post better lap times and run better times at the 1/4 mile. BTW, the Model X is almost 1000 lbs heavier than the Model Y..

The Model S Plaid with enhancements ran a 7:25 at The Ring.
The BMW X5 ran a 7:42, I do not know the trim or if had enhancements, cannot confirm if a M-Series.
Could not find a Model X or Y Ring time.

2024 X5M Competition ran a 2:58 at Lightning Lap:

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Onebadcad

The Model S Plaid with enhancements ran a 7:25 at The Ring.
The BMW X5 ran a 7:42, I do not know the trim or if had enhancements, cannot confirm if a M-Series.
Could not find a Model X or Y Ring time.

2024 X5M Competitionran a 2:58 at Lightning Lap:

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/

Got to be a X5M. Not a chance that a regular X5 ran that fast.. X5M certainly can.. Huge difference in performance. A X5M can play with the big boys..
A X5M is not in the same class as a Model Y Performance. The X5M belongs in a class with the MX Plaid, Urus, RSQ8

[Steve_R]

Meanwhile, in related EV news, Hertz is hurting bad after betting on EVs, Ford and GM can't sell their EVs, and Fisker just announced they're "pausing production" because of a cash shortage and "weak demand" for EVs.

But hey, EVs are the future according to idiots in the government.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

Meanwhile, in related EV news, Hertz is hurting bad after betting on EVs, Ford and GM can't sell their EVs, and Fisker just announced they're "pausing production" because of a cash shortage and "weak demand" for EVs.

But hey, EVs are the future according to idiots in the government.

Hertz issue is that commercially used cars don't have a warranty. Fisker is hurting like all other EV makers not named Tesla because Tesla is killing them on price. Hard to sell a car if you can get the competitors car with more power and space for over $10k less

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

...those who care more about performance will go with the Model Y .

The average age of a Tesla Model Y owner is almost 50 (yes, that's true). You actually think that the middle class mid-level managers, suburban soccer moms, and accountants that make up the majority of the Model Y driving demographic bought them ... because they are faster?!?!

Holy shit.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Vandelay Industries

Do only suckers buy EVs? Brakes and tires on EVs release 1,850 times more particle pollution compared to modern tailpipes.

I'm not sure where that article pulled their facts from..

13000 miles on a set of tires

I changed tires on my Kona Electric at 38k miles
I had 26500 miles on my Model Y LR when I traded it in and it still had like 30% tread remaining.
I changed tires on my Model X Plaid at 30k miles, mostly because the rear tires were worn on the inside due to the factory negative camber. (and those 30k miles included many drag strip launches). I installed camber spacers to get more even wear on my new set of tires. I should get 40k miles out of my new set of tires.
The only time I can see tires only lasting 13k miles is a Model S Plaid with 21" wheels that constantly does launches and drives super hard.. Other than that, I can't see any EV only getting 13k miles out of a set of tires.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

The average age of a Tesla Model Y owner is almost 50 (yes, that's true). You actually think that the middle class mid-level managers, suburban soccer moms, and accountants that make up the majority of the Model Y driving demographic bought them ... because they are faster?!?!

Holy shit.

Anyone, regardless of age can appreciate passing power, even if you aren't into any type of racing.

[Unsuspicious]

I've never driven a car that was unable to pass normal traffic. If you feel the need to pass at 40 over because it tickles your tiny pickle to blow by another car, you're grasping for justification.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

The X5M belongs in a class with the MX Plaid, Urus, RSQ8

Oh holy shit.

Are you really saying that this f-ing thing built out of the same materials as a Hyundai or Kia:







Is in the same class as THIS... because it can go fast in a straight line?

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Anyone, regardless of age can appreciate passing power, even if you aren't into any type of racing.

Just to clarify, you actually believe that as a majority, the average 50 year old guy buying the Model Y... is doing it because it has more horsepower?

Come on man. Even you can't believe something that stupid.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Oh holy shit.

Are you really saying that this f-ing thing built out of the same materials as a Hyundai or Kia:







Is in the same class as THIS... because it can go fast in a straight line?

The URUS is almost 3 times the price of a Model X Plaid. It better has better materials and brakes considering the $$ you are paying.