Shoot 'em up Texas Style

[Z06PDQ]

AUSTIN — Texas is preparing to give college students and professors the right to carry guns on campus, adding momentum to a national campaign to open this part of society to firearms.

More than half the members of the Texas House have signed on as co-authors of a measure directing universities to allow concealed handguns. The Senate passed a similar bill in 2009 and is expected to do so again. Republican Gov. Rick Perry, who sometimes packs a pistol when he jogs, has said he's in favor of the idea.

Texas has become a prime battleground for the issue because of its gun culture and its size, with 38 public universities and more than 500,000 students. It would become the second state, following Utah, to pass such a broad-based law. Colorado gives colleges the option and several have allowed handguns.

Supporters of the legislation argue that gun violence on campuses, such as the mass shootings at Virginia Tech in 2007 and Northern Illinois in 2008, show that the best defense against a gunman is students who can shoot back.

"It's strictly a matter of self-defense," said state Sen. Jeff Wentworth, R-San Antonio. "I don't ever want to see repeated on a Texas college campus what happened at Virginia Tech, where some deranged, suicidal madman goes into a building and is able to pick off totally defenseless kids like sitting ducks."

Until the Virginia Tech incident, the worst college shooting in U.S. history occurred at the University of Texas, when sniper Charles Whitman went to the top of the administration tower in 1966 and killed 16 people and wounded dozens. Last September, a University of Texas student fired several shots from an assault rifle before killing himself.

Similar firearms measures have been proposed in about a dozen other states, but all face strong opposition, especially from college leaders. In Oklahoma, all 25 public college and university presidents declared their opposition to a concealed carry proposal.

"There is no scenario where allowing concealed weapons on college campuses will do anything other than create a more dangerous environment for students, faculty, staff and visitors," Oklahoma Chancellor of Higher Education Glen Johnson said in January.

University of Texas President William Powers has opposed concealed handguns on campus, saying the mix of students, guns and campus parties is too volatile.

Guns occupy a special place in Texas culture. Politicians often tout owning a gun as essential to being Texan. Concealed handgun license holders are allowed to skip the metal detectors that scan Capitol visitors for guns, knives and other contraband.

Guns on campus bills have been rejected in 23 states since 2007, but gun control activists acknowledge it will be difficult to stop the Texas bill from passing this year. "Things do look bleak," said Colin Goddard, assistant director of federal legislation for the Brady Campaign Against Gun Violence, who was in Austin recently to lobby against the Texas bills.

Goddard was a student at Virginia Tech when he was shot four times in his French class. Student Seung-Hui Cho killed 32 people, including 10 in Goddard's classroom, before shooting himself. Goddard dismisses the idea that another student with a gun could have stopped the killer.

"People tell me that if they would have been there, they would have shot that guy. That offends me," Goddard said. "People want to be the hero, I understand that. They play video games and they think they understand the reality. It's nothing like that."

But Derek Titus, a senior at Texas A&M who has a state license to carry a concealed handgun, said someone with a gun that day could have improved the chances of survival.

"Gun-free zones are shooting galleries for the mass murderers," Titus said. "We do not feel that we must rely on the police or security forces to defend our lives."

Texas enacted its concealed handgun law in 1995, allowing people 21 or older to carry weapons if they pass a training course and a background check. The state had 461,724 license holders as of Dec. 31, according to the state Department of Public Safety.

Businesses, schools and churches can set rules banning guns on their premises. On college campuses, guns are prohibited in buildings, dorms and certain grounds around them.

Opponents of campus gun rights say students and faculty would live in fear of their classmates and colleagues, not knowing who might pull a gun over a poor grade, a broken romance or a drunken fraternity argument.

Frankie Shulkin, a first-year law student at the University of Texas, said he doesn't think he'd feel safer if other students in his classes had guns.

"If I was taking an exam and knew the person next to me had one, I don't know how comfortable I would feel," Shulkin said. "I am in favor of guns rights and your typical conservative guy, but the classroom thing bugs me."

Wentworth said he heard the "blood on the streets" warnings when Texas first passed the concealed handgun law. "They said we'd have shootouts at every intersection," he said. "None of that has happened."

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[Z06PDQ]

[Bill]

The thing about concealed handguns is.......they are concealed. You don't know who is packing when you are out and about in public, and you won't know who may be packing on campus.

Where's the problem? Everybody currently knows that schools are a great place for mayhem if you want to go out in a blaze of glory precisely because they are "gun-free" zones.

All we would be doing is reducing crime by making one less thing illegal.

Think of all the things that are illegal, yet hurt no one else. If we could repeal all those laws, think of what Texas could save in criminal justice costs.

[Z06PDQ]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

Where's the problem?

I remember Charles Whitman. I remember the Luby's massacre. I carry occasionally, but if a criminal thinks I might be armed he's going to blow my shit away immediately if he's smart. it's getting like Tombstone or Dodge City all over again.

[Broken Wind]

good

[Z06PDQ]

Originally Posted by Broken Wind

good

for what? more blood & guts? should we arm our kinder students?

[73sbVert]

Originally Posted by Z06PDQ

I remember Charles Whitman. I remember the Luby's massacre. I carry occasionally, but if a criminal thinks I might be armed he's going to blow my shit away immediately if he's smart. it's getting like Tombstone or Dodge City all over again.

Yeah, that was predicted every time that another state eased their carry restrictions. Blood running through the streets, shoot ups over parking spots, etc.

NONE of it ever happened. And to boot, the crime rates DROPPED.

To date, 40 states have very loose gun control laws, and they have the lower violent crime rates too. Those states and cities with the toughest gun control laws have the highest crime rates.

Go figure. When people are able to protect themselves, the criminals move to other pastures, where the sheep are not armed.


I've said it before and it bears repeating:

Anti-gunners believe that armed, we are all potential murderers.
Pro-gunners believe that unarmed, we are all potential victims.

I for one refuse to be a victim.

[Z06PDQ]

Originally Posted by 73sbVert

NONE of it ever happened.

be sure & tell that to Gabby Giffords.

[73sbVert]

[thkauffman]

Originally Posted by Z06PDQ

be sure & tell that to Gabby Giffords.

Somebody got killed with a car. We should outlaw those.

[RetiredSFC 97]

Originally Posted by Z06PDQ

I remember Charles Whitman. I remember the Luby's massacre. I carry occasionally, but if a criminal thinks I might be armed he's going to blow my shit away immediately if he's smart. it's getting like Tombstone or Dodge City all over again.

I would stay out of Dodge City or Tombstone then if you're scared.

[Y2Kvert4me]

Originally Posted by Z06PDQ

be sure & tell that to Gabby Giffords.

Because no one anywhere has ever been shot where guns are prohibited.

[Z06PDQ]

Originally Posted by RetiredSFC 97

I would stay out of Dodge City or Tombstone then if you're scared.

I'm not "scared." are you? I am armed to the teeth & I will protect me & mine with extreme prejudice if need be. just because I don't want college kids packing heat when some of them have just reached puberty & have a helluva lot of growing up to do doesn't mean I'm a chicken shit.

[73sbVert]

Originally Posted by Z06PDQ

I'm not "scared." are you? I am armed to the teeth & I will protect me & mine with extreme prejudice if need be. just because I don't want college kids packing heat when some of them have just reached puberty & have a helluva lot of growing up to do doesn't mean I'm a chicken shit.

So it's ok that you are armed and can protect yourself and your friends/loved ones, but others can't simply because they are young or on a campus?

Sorry, does not compute. I've met quite a few college kids that were a hell of a lot more 'mature' than some folks twice their age.

[Z06PDQ]

Originally Posted by 73sbVert

So it's ok that you are armed and can protect yourself and your friends/loved ones, but others can't simply because they are young or on a campus?

Sorry, does not compute. I've met quite a few college kids that were a hell of a lot more 'mature' than some folks twice their age.

and we've ALL met a lot of college kids that can barely show up for class because they aren't even ready to participate in the real world,much less arm themselves. admit it. where do we draw the line? grade school?

[73sbVert]

Originally Posted by Z06PDQ

and we've ALL met a lot of college kids that can barely show up for class because they aren't even ready to participate in the real world,much less arm themselves. admit it. where do we draw the line? grade school?

So their lives are worth less to protect than others?

Where do you draw THAT line?

[RetiredSFC 97]

Originally Posted by Z06PDQ

I'm not "scared." are you? I am armed to the teeth & I will protect me & mine with extreme prejudice if need be. just because I don't want college kids packing heat when some of them have just reached puberty & have a helluva lot of growing up to do doesn't mean I'm a chicken shit.

Why? You let them vote, that's a helluva lot more dangerous than packing heat by a well trained college kid.

heck RIM and some of his buddies fought for the right for them to vote. Well they didn't actually fight, they just layed down on the floor and kicked like babies actually.

But

I kinda doubt they're going to start passing out heat at Summer Welcome!

[Z06PDQ]

Originally Posted by 73sbVert

So their lives are worth less to protect than others?

Where do you draw THAT line?

the "line" was passed a long time ago. do we take ourselves back to the 1800's or do we progress? ....oh yeah...I forgot...you guys hate that word "progress" because it's in Progressive.

[Z06PDQ]

Originally Posted by RetiredSFC 97

Why? You let them vote, that's a helluva lot more dangerous than packing heat by a well trained college kid.

heck RIM and some of his buddies fought for the right for them to vote. Well they didn't actually fight, they just layed down on the floor and kicked like babies actually.

But

I kinda doubt they're going to start passing out heat at Summer Welcome!

*I* "let them vote?" show me how taking several human lives at a frat party is worse than voting for a black man with a funny name?

[Vette Jockey]

Originally Posted by Y2Kvert4me

Because no one anywhere has ever been shot where guns are prohibited.

Yes, Chicago and Washington, D. C. are such shining examples of a lowered homicide rate due to firearm prohibition, and let us not forget about England.