Shareholder versus Stakeholder Capitalism

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

250 Americans with their families were now out of work and the only ones that got wealthy were the investors who are already very wealthy.

Had we any type of a union at the time, we could have saved these people's jobs.

...and Whirlpool just recently closed it's Evansville, IN plant because union wages, i.e. people getting paid $50+/hr to drive screws with pneumatic drivers, made the business not even remotely close to profitable. It wasn't material costs. It was the HUMAN cost that closed them up...

1100 people with their families were now out of work and the only ones that got wealthy were the union leaders who of course all found new positions at other plants.

Of course we've been down this road and I know that there is absolutely zero chance of you ever actually comprehending the simple concept that when employees cost more than the value that they add, the company is doomed to fail.

[repo]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Of course we've been down this road and I know that there is absolutely zero chance of you ever actually comprehending the simple concept that when employees cost more than the value that they add, the company is doomed to fail.

Exactly.I love all the Capitalism haters. I wonder where they have their money invested?

[NB2K]

[QUOTE=BuckyThreadkiller;541036]I can agree with this point.

I would wager that holding companies along with mergers and acquisitions have eliminated more jobs in this country than automation and off shore outsourcing.

I'm not a fan of government oversight, but I believe that if banks were required to only be banks, mortgage companies could only be mortgage companies, and insurance companies only provide insurance, there would be a damn sight more people working in the United States.

It is far too easy for a company to increase profits by acquiring its competitors than by outperforming them and building a better widget. That should be the role of government oversight, to make the marketplace equal for all businesses.[/QUOTE]

I agree.

I will add this:

We have let large corporations but their own tax laws and favorable legislation.

I don't GAS if anyone agrees w/ me or not, it's a damn fact.

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

Originally Posted by repo

Did they get paid every week? Do employees have obligation when they call in fake sick, fake injuries, or jump to anther company in a heart beat?

Repo, do you work for a corporation? How many employees? Publicly held? A bunch of fossils on the board?

[SteelCityBlue]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Please explain to me how a company that employs 135,000+ Americans and in turn infuses BILLIONS into the American economy is the bad guy.

They have four floors of accountants whose sole job it is to screw the government out of money they should be paying. They are beyond dishonest.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by SteelCityBlue

They have four floors of accountants whose sole job it is to screw the government out of money they should be paying. They are beyond dishonest.

The evil tax evaders!!

Who do you think pays taxes? A big company? I hope you are smarter than that. No. It is the consumer. It is ALWAYS the consumer. Raise their taxes, and to close the gap, they raise prices on everything from appliances to jet engines to trains, your costs go up to fly as well as for every product that has any component shipped by rail. Thousands of small businesses funded by GE Capital lose their financial backing... Raise their taxes and the BILLION dollars that they invested in American infrastructure over the last 2 years goes away. The 8,000 jobs added (when nobody else is adding jobs) go away. The plants close (like everybody else) because it isn't profitable to do business here and 100k+ American jobs overseas.

Yep, make them pay their "fair share" and see how that works out.

I really hope you don't think it is as simple as "making them pay taxes".

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

RedLS1GTO, Larry, Joecooool, who do you hold responsible for the current economic condition of our country? Who's fault?

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Thomas

RedLS1GTO, Larry, Joecooool, who do you hold responsible for the current economic condition of our country? Who's fault?

The honest answer is that I don't give a s**t whose fault it is. It is EVERYONE'S fault. If you are looking for me to point a finger at a political party, I can't because they are all full of crap. Anybody who thinks that it is the fault of 1 person or even 1 party, i.e. the "Blame Bush" crowd, is an idiot IMO.

The fault is with the government as a whole who has made it so that it is not profitable to start/expand businesses here. Why would a company possibly want to expand here when they gain nothing from it? "Supporting the community" is easy to say as you sit and talk about it from your living room. It is something entirely different when it is millions of YOUR dollars on the line.

Proctor and Gamble, Boeing, L-3, Siemens, Hewlett-Packard ... you name it... ALL of them are cutting American jobs. Why? Because it is cheaper and more profitible for them to go elsewhere. If you want jobs to stay here or to be created here you have to make it profitible for companies to do so. It is a very simple concept. The point of a business is to make money, and they will go to where that is most likely to happen. Don't blame the companies for leaving. Blame the government and the lawmakers that are forcing them to. Blame unions who ensure that workers get paid 5 times what their value add is. Blame the government for forcing companies to pay into so many programs that a minimum wage employee actually costs a business $100k+ per year.

The short answer? Blame EVERYTHING that prevents businesses from being profitable here. Until businesses WANT to be here, this will not end. Contrary to the current liberal beliefs... you can't force that to happen.

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

If you are looking for me to point a finger at a political party,

I'm not. Not in the least.

Anybody who thinks that it is the fault of 1 person or even 1 party, i.e. the "Blame Bush" crowd, is an idiot IMO

Or "Blame Obama" crowd is an idiot IMO.

Blame unions who ensure that workers get paid 5 times what their value add is.

Private sector unionized jobs are what 7% of the work force?

[repo]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Private sector unionized jobs are what 7% of the work force?

And they are at that number for a reason.

Now bust the damn Govt employee Unions. The teachers Union in Ny has so much pull it is a joke.

[nhlgopens]

It's a shame we don't have a section at VB for threads like this...

[Skia]

Oh look....a political thread in OT.... Bit surprising that Phil of all people would post this here purely by mistake.

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

And they are at that number for a reason.

So this 7% is to blame? 7% in the private sector?

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

Originally Posted by Skia

Oh look....a political thread in OT.... Bit surprising that Phil of all people would post this here purely by mistake.

This is the first political thread I've participated in. Leave me alone.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Or "Blame Obama" crowd is an idiot IMO.

OK, sure. Like I said: "Anybody who thinks that it is the fault of 1 person or even 1 party." That wasn't exclusive to Bush.

Originally Posted by Thomas

Private sector unionized jobs are what 7% of the work force?

The problem is where that 7% is concentrated. Most are in the manufacturing jobs... upwards of 13-15% as a whole, and up to 20% of the actual manual labor. To dig even farther, the concentration again is focused into the industries which are the basis of all of the others as well as in the transportation industries which drive up the cost of everything.

Look specifically at the industries that make products. THOSE are the industries that all others are based around... and that is where the union concentration is. There was no doubt a time for Unions. They served a huge part in shaping business practices. Now... the only thing they serve is their own pockets.

Hell, look no farther than GM and Chrysler. The massive pensions the car companies paid out and the massive salaries for current employees raised their costs so much that they were limited to raising prices on cars above the foreign manufacturers to try to get their money back. To top it off, they couldn't even do a good job of building those cars because ridiculous union rules prevented them from using their labor efficiently. They couldn't streamline processes and reduce costs to be competitive because they couldn't get rid of workers and the hole got deeper and deeper with no way out.

There is no more clear example of how destructive unions are than the auto industry.

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

There is no more clear example of how destructive unions are than the auto industry.

A-FUKIN'-MEN, and give me a "Hell Yeah"

[Skia]

Originally Posted by Thomas

This is the first political thread I've participated in. Leave me alone.

Knock yourself out. I just don't want it in My OT.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by Thomas

RedLS1GTO, Larry, Joecooool, who do you hold responsible for the current economic condition of our country? Who's fault?

Generally...I blame progressives. that includes almost every democrat and lib...and many republicans.

A lifetime (mine 50+ years) of steady drip.

It's a combination of indoctrination in the schools...media...political correctness...and manufactured realities. Near 50% of the population believes a false reality...once there, one can be easily manipulated. Including manipulated into voting for a one term senator and community organizer with ZERO executive experience...because it "feels good".

Specifically...Fanny & Freddie, and the politicians who pushed the sub prime mortgage market. Again, because doesn't it feel good to know that every American can own a home...reguardless of their ability to pay for it.

Originally Posted by Thomas

This is the first political thread I've participated in. Leave me alone.

You should have participated back in 2008...

it may have saved you from wasting your vote.

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

because doesn't it feel good to know that every American can own a home...reguardless of their ability to pay for it.

Here is my experience with that: When the market was going berzerker I didn't take one cent out of my home in equity. Not a penny. I also bought WELL below what I qualified for. Why? I suppose it's the way I was raised. Conservative.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Here is my experience with that: When the market was going berzerker I didn't take one cent out of my home in equity. Not a penny. I also bought WELL below what I qualified for. Why? I suppose it's the way I was raised. Conservative.

then start voting like one


btw, smart position you took on the home equity.