Any word from Butterfingers Barney Fife Baldwin lately?

[69camfrk]

Originally Posted by ZipZap

You would literally pull the trigger on a firearm that you did not either load or intentionally clear? I don't even take an arm from someone when I don't know the status. Clear it while I watch, and then I'll clear it again.

His lackadaisical attitude on safety as the manager of the set could be easily seen as criminal.

He is just a dumbass actor. The armorer is the one responsible for the safety of the operation. What you are asking me would be a normal firearm handling situation of which I completely agree.

[69camfrk]

Originally Posted by KenHorse

Why are you using a gun grabber style talking point?

The ultimate responsibility rests with the one who pulls the trigger

PERIOD

A gun grabber talking point? You are full of shit. Actors point and shoot weapons with regularity with this type of incident being rare. I guess he shouldn't have gotten a bargain basement armorer. I would imagine everyone from John Wayne to Clint Eastwood had an armorer take care of the weapons to make sure they are safe. They are after all a prop.

[Bill]

There are clearly multiple people that have negligence here, so someone, somewhere, is going to have to assess comparative negligence and how that factors into both the civil and criminal sides of this case.

Baldwin's liability seems to be, I was just horsing around, assumed the gun wasn't loaded with live ammo, and shot that woman. So some kind of manslaughter case, just as if it was someone showing their barbecue gun off and accidentally shot someone else because they thought the gun was unloaded.

[69camfrk]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

There are clearly multiple people that have negligence here, so someone, somewhere, is going to have to assess comparative negligence and how that factors into both the civil and criminal sides of this case.

Baldwin's liability seems to be, I was just horsing around, assumed the gun wasn't loaded with live ammo, and shot that woman. So some kind of manslaughter case, just as if it was someone showing their barbecue gun off and accidentally shot someone else because they thought the gun was unloaded.

That is the point I was trying to make. You are supposed to have professionals set you up with that stuff and make sure firearms aren't hot. Not even sure why they are using real firearms. But definitely there was negligence. Never should have been live ammo on the set. Something he found out a little too late.

[Unsuspicious]

YouTube

[Wathen1955]

Yes the armorer was found guilty, but the big questions is why would they hire a person like this instead of a professional? She's what in her mid 20"s? Baldwin trying to save $$$ on his movie set by hiring incompetent staff?

[Unsuspicious]

Originally Posted by Wathen1955

Yes the armorer was found guilty, but the big questions is why would they hire a person like this instead of a professional? She's what in her mid 20"s? Baldwin trying to save $$$ on his movie set by hiring incompetent staff?

I think it was a nepotism hire or something like that

[Swany00]

Originally Posted by Unsuspicious

I think it was a nepotism hire or something like that

yup, daddy was a big wig in the acting community.

baldwin still pulled the trigger, he's guilty

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by Swany00

yup, daddy was a big wig in the acting community.

baldwin still pulled the trigger, he's guilty

They have been careful to say "Baldwin was holding the gun when it discharged".

What a great precedent for a murder defense.

"Your honor, my client did not shoot the store owner. He was simply holding the gun with his finger on the trigger when it discharged. Obviously it is the fault of the person that handled the gun before it was given to the person that gave it to my client".

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by 69camfrk

A gun grabber talking point? You are full of shit. Actors point and shoot weapons with regularity with this type of incident being rare. I guess he shouldn't have gotten a bargain basement armorer. I would imagine everyone from John Wayne to Clint Eastwood had an armorer take care of the weapons to make sure they are safe. They are after all a prop.

100%

Somehow I doubt that there is an actor anywhere that personally loads and clears and verifies every round in prop gun.

Originally Posted by GTOguy

The GOLDEN RULE of firearm safety is to ALWAYS check the firearm to verify its loaded/unloaded status and to NEVER point it at ANYTHING you do not intend to shoot.

I don't disagree with this... however, as true as that may be and as much idealism as you want to put behind it, a movie set is different than your buddy handing you a gun to look at.

You think that every actor that fired a round in Saving Private Ryan verified each round and cleared it before the shot? Come on guys. I'm as much of an advocate for firearms and firearm safety as you will ever find. I was a small arms instructor in the military for years. As for Saving Private Ryan, I can assure you they did not. A friend of mine was "on the beach" for that opening scene. He has talked about it many times. They handed him a gun and said shoot it over there. He did. They handed him another one. He did again. Funny story, he actually dies 3 times in that movie and fought on both sides.

Don't point it at anything? Contrary to all training that has ever happened, that's exactly what happens in movies. They point them at people and pull the trigger.



It's safe to say that most actors are not firearms proficient and don't have much, if any training. That is why the process of ensuring safe weapons should be incredibly robust. It is the singular exception that I can think of where realistically the responsibility falls beyond the person holding it.

I don't blame Baldwin the actor. I 100% blame Baldwin the producer who was beyond negligent in ensuring that protocols were in place and being followed to ensure safe weapons on set.

[GTOguy]

Not buying it. Real guns mean using real safety measures, NO SHORTCUTS.

I Hope you are not a gun owner. Gun safety, like justice, is NOT SELECTIVE.

Actors have NO business pointing their guns at directors and producers who are not in front of the camera in the first place. Baldwin was ****ing around like the petulant little liberal kid he is and he blew that woman away by pointing the gun at her, cocking it all the way, and pulling the trigger. All deliberate. He wanted to scare her with a blank, IMO. (Which at that range, could also have killed her)

[Tikiman]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

I 100% blame Baldwin the producer who was beyond negligent in ensuring that protocols were in place and being followed to ensure safe weapons on set.

He was making this movie out of his own pocket so he tried to cut corners wherever possible. He hired some famous armorers coked up, tatted daughter and made her assume multiple responsibilities on the set. The whole thing was being done on a shoestring budget to increase the profits to himself. Frankly, he probably regards that lady's death as more of a nuisance than a tragedy.

[Chemtrails99]

Originally Posted by Tikiman

He was making this movie out of his own pocket so he tried to cut corners wherever possible. He hired some famous armorers coked up, tatted daughter and made her assume multiple responsibilities on the set. The whole thing was being done on a shoestring budget to increase the profits to himself. Frankly, he probably regards that lady's death as more of a nuisance than a tragedy.

Early on it was said a group of actors took some guns while the armorer was on her lunch break and off site and went plinking with live ammo. She was unaware of their actions. Early reports also said the assistant producer went to the prop shop, grabbed guns that weren't checked by the armorer and got the loaded guns the actors had been playing with.

Funny how anything sounding like that has been scrubbed from the internet now. No matter how you look at it, as an actor or the man in charge of the whole production....Baldwin allowed the situation to happen. Not like a beginner armorer is going to speak out to a veteran star actor who can ( and now has) ruin her.

[slewfoot]

Originally Posted by KenHorse

He goes to trial next month I believe

July

They convicted Hanna the other day

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Tikiman

He was making this movie out of his own pocket so he tried to cut corners wherever possible. He hired some famous armorers coked up, tatted daughter and made her assume multiple responsibilities on the set. The whole thing was being done on a shoestring budget to increase the profits to himself. Frankly, he probably regards that lady's death as more of a nuisance than a tragedy.

Yep. Baldwin the producer, 100% guilty.

Originally Posted by Chemtrails99

Early on it was said a group of actors took some guns while the armorer was on her lunch break and off site and went plinking with live ammo. She was unaware of their actions. Early reports also said the assistant producer went to the prop shop, grabbed guns that weren't checked by the armorer and got the loaded guns the actors had been playing with.

Funny how anything sounding like that has been scrubbed from the internet now. No matter how you look at it, as an actor or the man in charge of the whole production....Baldwin allowed the situation to happen. Not like a beginner armorer is going to speak out to a veteran star actor who can ( and now has) ruin her.

Which goes back to establishing and following protocols, that I am sure are fairly standard for movie production, to ensure safety.

Like you said, there is no way to spin it as not being the responsibility of the guy in charge (who also happened to be the one to pull the trigger)

[slewfoot]

Originally Posted by Tikiman

He was making this movie out of his own pocket so he tried to cut corners wherever possible. He hired some famous armorers coked up, tatted daughter and made her assume multiple responsibilities on the set. The whole thing was being done on a shoestring budget to increase the profits to himself. Frankly, he probably regards that lady's death as more of a nuisance than a tragedy.

That's pretty much the daily news analysis around here. Assumption was the mother of all fkups that day

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GTOguy

Not buying it. Real guns mean using real safety measures, NO SHORTCUTS.

I Hope you are not a gun owner. Gun safety, like justice, is NOT SELECTIVE.

Actors have NO business pointing their guns at directors and producers who are not in front of the camera in the first place. Baldwin was ****ing around like the petulant little liberal kid he is and he blew that woman away by pointing the gun at her, cocking it all the way, and pulling the trigger. All deliberate. He wanted to scare her with a blank, IMO. (Which at that range, could also have killed her)

Are you talking to me?

If you really think that every individual actor verifies every round in every weapon prior to every shot, you are in an idealistic dream world. Not the least of which is that I'm sure that about 99% of actors can't look at a round and identify whether it is a blank or live.

There are no shortcuts. The part you are missing is that there alternatives including very simple policies and procedures that can be implemented to ensure safety on set that may not align exactly with what you do as an individual when your buddy hands you a gun.

[Aerovette]

The detail that is being glossed over is Baldwin's insistence that he did not pull the trigger.
Whether the gun is loaded or unloaded is a circumstance all on it's own, that certainly contributed to her death BUT, his claim that he did not pull the trigger is a lie. The gun can be loaded or unloaded and it makes no difference UNTIL you pull the trigger.

He pulled the trigger and shot her. Period.
The gun should not have been loaded. Period

Two distinct issues.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Aerovette

The detail that is being glossed over is Baldwin's insistence that he did not pull the trigger.
Whether the gun is loaded or unloaded is a circumstance all on it's own, that certainly contributed to her death BUT, his claim that he did not pull the trigger is a lie. The gun can be loaded or unloaded and it makes no difference UNTIL you pull the trigger.

He pulled the trigger and shot her. Period.
The gun should not have been loaded. Period

Two distinct issues.

I admittedly haven't kept up on the details. But yea, "pulling the trigger" is irrelevant. I've seen many weapons that will fire if you give them a nice whack on the butt. Is the argument that I can do that and shoot anybody I want ... because I didn't "pull the trigger"?

Idiot.

[Loco Vette]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

I admittedly haven't kept up on the details. But yea, "pulling the trigger" is irrelevant. I've seen many weapons that will fire if you give them a nice whack on the butt. Is the argument that I can do that and shoot anybody I want ... because I didn't "pull the trigger"?

Idiot.

The gun in question was thoroughly worked over and determined to be incapable of discharge without a trigger pull.