Kent State University blasts red-stained sweatshirt sold by Urban Outfitters

[mrvette]

Originally Posted by LATB

Was the police officer wrong in killing Michael Brown?

Hell no, pin a medal on him.......

[RED-85-Z51]

[Czarvette]

Originally Posted by LATB

Was the police officer wrong in killing Michael Brown?

If the published eyewitness statements prevail, yes, he was wrong.

[Czarvette]

Originally Posted by Mike Mercury

I've already made a statement that said the ONG were not blameless.

But, since you are relying on news photos to base all your decisions; you're missing a lot from that day. One sided journalism... is exactly what you are showing there. But that picture reinforces your beliefs; so no need to seek out others that may show the full story that day.

Look past the horrified girl and at the passers by instead; does it look like these students are rioting?

[Sea Six]

Originally Posted by Czarvette

If the published eyewitness statements prevail, yes, he was wrong.

How about the published eyewitness statements that got caught lying their collective fucking asses off?

Are they wrong? Hmmm?

[aj]

I was in VN in 67 and had several friends that didn't make it home. One of the pilots in my old squadron was lost over the north on a bombing raid. And I had a very young GI die in my lap as we were trying to fly him, along with the other wounded in the helo, to a hospital. So I may be slightly biased in the way I feel.

I was working and going to school when this happened. I definitely did not support our being in VN but at least I had done my time and knew we were trying to fight a civil war in someone else's country. But at all times I supported the troops that were living in hell 24/7. There was no place were you were truly safe and being rolled out of the rack at 2 am because you were being shelled was a normal event.

While I think it is a shame that people died, I don't have a lot of sympathy for this. American kids were fighting and dying for whatever reason. Most did not ask to be involved in this, but they did what they were required and many have lived with the nightmares since.

I didn't know till about 5 years ago about my pilot being lost. One of the things on my bucket list is to go to the WALL and say goodbye. He was 26 and at one point I had fitted him with his flight gear.

[RED-85-Z51]

Pensacola Wall South may be a closer option....its a humbling experience.

[Czarvette]

Originally Posted by Sea Six

How about the published eyewitness statements that got caught lying their collective fucking asses off?

Are they wrong? Hmmm?

I said IF the eyewitness statements prevail. The police aren't fairing too well on the truth-o-meter, either.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by RED-85-Z51

Pensacola Wall South may be a closer option....its a humbling experience.

Been there.

[mrvette]

I don't remember exactly when, but on some visit, my oldest buddy from HS, we met in '60, he did his Med Cruise.....was around for the Little Rock affair.....

So he comes over to my place and wanted me to go with him and some gal he dating to the VN Wall I really did not want to go, but the experience was very emotional, and yes, it made me hate Do Mo Craps and their 'party' even more, dominated by Progressives/communists that entire affair was done to help destroy America.....And like Korea, break the balls of the American .mil .....

[Bill]

1: The First Amendment to the US Constitution


“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

The First Amendment does not grant rights, but rather says “Congress shall make no law…” restricting government interference with certain rights. This is consistent with the philosophy of the Declaration of Independence that government does not grant natural, inalienable rights, but rather government is formed to protect those rights.
- See more at: Amendment I to the US Constitution: An Overview | David J. Shestokas

These college kids were not burning down the ROTC building, looting the Quickie Mart, or assaulting/shooting anyone. They were exercising their natural, God given, constitutionally protected right to peaceably assemble and petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Four of those kids had those rights violated.....permanently.

The Founding Fathers thought this stuff was important enough to fight and die for. Countless servicemen since have also died to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

Now, on to point 2:

(this should make Lars' head explode.)

The war in Vietnam would have no doubt gone on even longer, but for the massive protests against it. I was too young for that draft, but I have a friend who was the right age. His number was drawn, and a few days before he was to report to the draft board for compulsory military service, the war was over. He never reported, and never served. For him, for those similarly situated, and for those who were already in harms way, ending the war quite possibly saved their lives. Now here's the part that will blow Lars' mind:

Some of the same guardsmen that fired on the Kent State kids might have ended up dying in Vietnam, had the war not ended early.....because of anti war protests like Kent State.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programing.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Mike Mercury

I've already made a statement that said the ONG were not blameless.

But, since you are relying on news photos to base all your decisions; you're missing a lot from that day. One sided journalism... is exactly what you are showing there. But that picture reinforces your beliefs; so no need to seek out others that may show the full story that day.

In the spirit of conciliation, I'll agree that the students were probably taunting the guardsmen and had some culpability in what happened.

[LATB]

doesn't explode my head.

the war also would have been won if not for the nonstop anti-war hippies and their cohorts in the media.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

In the spirit of conciliation, I'll agree that the students were probably taunting the guardsmen and had some culpability in what happened.

[Mike Mercury]

Originally Posted by Czarvette

The truth is that Walter Cronkite was, and continues to be widely respected and admired as a broadcast journalist. Public opinion polling identified him as "most trusted man in America."

only by political groups that he leaned towards.

Get past the hype and the marketing bites. Once Cronkite retired and stopped getting a lot of TV time, his true self came out; he didn't need to uphold a personna that would get the ratings... so he no longer was careful and scripted.

20 years later... when CBS said that Dan Rather "was the most trusted name in news"... did you let it go at that? All the polling claimed he was.

Hint: you need to dig in further and find out who did the polling, the exact questions asked, and to what target group.

[aj]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

In the spirit of conciliation, I'll agree that the students were probably taunting the guardsmen and had some culpability in what happened.

As Col. Hal Moore said, 'hate war, but love the American warrior'.

These were American kids that didn't ask to go to war, but did as they were told. They didn't expect parades when they came home, but they did not deserve the disrespect they received.

I was in the SF airport in Aug. 66 and all the airlines but Delta were on strike. For 3 days I sat and waited for a standby seat trying to get home to Dallas. On day 2 the gate agent put two GIs on emergency leave from VN on the plane so they could get home. Some A-hole started screaming at the agent about how it was his turn to get a seat. By the time he got going she was in tears and about 4 of us were ready to help him go to the ER. This one dude, about 6'4" grabbed him and threw him across the waiting area and said if he made a sound he would kick his ass. Almost everyone in the waiting area cheered for the big guy.

I have had 40 + years to think about this and have decided that when I took the oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic, that ment that even if I didn't support the protest marches I had to defend the rights of the assholes to do so.

[Allan]

Originally Posted by Mike Mercury

There were "trouble maker" spokes-persons that would travel from college to college; whipping up a frenzy
then quietly and quickly leaving before it'd turn ugly.

Those "persons" had the names Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Ruben, et.al. (Weatherman Underground, Students for a Democratic Society (SDS))

An excellent read on Kent State is the book Kent State-What Happened and Why by James A. Michener.

I'm "kinda" familiar w/the incident and Krause, Miller, Scheuer and Schroeder are forever embedded..

The shirt is in very poor taste and I'll bet someone who has no knowledge of the Kent State incident thought he/she had a "wonderful brain-fart."

Now, for CSNY . . .

[Blue 92]

Guy I worked with at the time of the Kent State shootings was in the National Guard.

He had a bumper sticker that said "National Guard 4, Kent State 0" that didn't go over well with quite a few folks.

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by LATB

doesn't explode my head.

the war also would have been won if not for the nonstop anti-war hippies and their cohorts in the media.

Or if it could have actually been a war and soldiers were allowed to fight like it was war.

[Czarvette]

Originally Posted by Mike Mercury

only by political groups that he leaned towards.

Get past the hype and the marketing bites. Once Cronkite retired and stopped getting a lot of TV time, his true self came out; he didn't need to uphold a personna that would get the ratings... so he no longer was careful and scripted.

20 years later... when CBS said that Dan Rather "was the most trusted name in news"... did you let it go at that? All the polling claimed he was.

Hint: you need to dig in further and find out who did the polling, the exact questions asked, and to what target group.

Whatever.

You see a socialist liar, I see an honorable man with good intentions.