This is what the Assoc. of American Physicians and Surgeons were saying...

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by carlton_fritz

Why did the dead baby cross the road?

Why?

[Murray]

Originally Posted by dvarapala

Or his brother Art who is hanging on the wall.

Russell in the leaves

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by carlton_fritz

Why did the dead baby cross the road?

Because he was stapled to the chicken.

[dvarapala]

What is red and bubbly and taps on the window?

[C3C7NIC]

Originally Posted by Millenium Vette

I find joking with others about a specific patient that you have treated to be more of an asshole move than a joke that has no specific person in mind.

Sorry, but if a patient comes to the ER at 2 in the morning with an object up his ass and wants us to believe it got there on "accident" and thinks the entire staff won't get a laugh about it good luck with that. Or finding an old french fry in a fat roll isn't gonna get a few laughs???

Well, your sense of humor must be "dead" Pun intended.

Yea, if we are assholes for laughing at people being dumbasses, then we are HUGE assholes!!!

[MadInNc]

Originally Posted by dvarapala

What is red and bubbly and taps on the window?

Ya ya ya. Porter in microwave. Ya Sick MOFO....


No more Portillo’s for you

[carlton_fritz]

Originally Posted by aerovette

Why?

It was stapled to the chicken.

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by carlton_fritz

It was stapled to the chicken.

https://www.thevettebarn.com/forums/...postcount=1863

[carlton_fritz]

Originally Posted by dvarapala

https://www.thevettebarn.com/forums/...postcount=1863

Notice that I had already thanked your post. He asked, I answered, I scrolled and then saw your post. I then thanked it.

[sublime1996525]

Originally Posted by C3C7NIC

You are correct, and why I bowed to your experience. People do die in the medical field because of our MISTAKES, not *anything intentional (HOPEFULLY)

All I know is the family members I have spoken to and patients that are vets that share with me their struggles, my heart breaks for the things that you all have to see and do. I know many of those things will be with you till you die.

Thank you for your service.

You are ****ing welcome!! It was my pleasure. Would do it again.

Originally Posted by C3C7NIC

I‘M working on it!

I’ll take mine in person too.

[C3C7NIC]

Originally Posted by sublime1996525

You are ****ing welcome!! It was my pleasure. Would do it again.





I’ll take mine in person too.

[C3C7NIC]

Originally Posted by Millenium Vette

I find joking with others about a specific patient that you have treated to be more of an asshole move than a joke that has no specific person in mind.

Are you mad because you ARE that guy with a random item up his pooper?

[C3C7NIC]

Enough fun and games, back to science.


Excited to see the results of this. Solid study approach:

Study Type : Interventional (Clinical Trial)
Estimated Enrollment : 1000 participants
Allocation: Randomized
Intervention Model: Parallel Assignment
Masking: Quadruple (Participant, Care Provider, Investigator, Outcomes Assessor)
Masking Description: Double-blind
Primary Purpose: Prevention
Official Title: ChemoPROphyLaxIs For covId-19 Infectious Disease (the PROLIFIC Trial)
Actual Study Start Date : May 11, 2020
Estimated Primary Completion Date : October 31, 2020
Estimated Study Completion Date : April 2021


Full details: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04352933

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by C3C7NIC

Enough fun and games, back to science.


Excited to see the results of this. Solid study approach:

Study Type : Interventional (Clinical Trial)
Estimated Enrollment : 1000 participants
Allocation: Randomized
Intervention Model: Parallel Assignment
Masking: Quadruple (Participant, Care Provider, Investigator, Outcomes Assessor)
Masking Description: Double-blind
Primary Purpose: Prevention
Official Title: ChemoPROphyLaxIs For covId-19 Infectious Disease (the PROLIFIC Trial)
Actual Study Start Date : May 11, 2020
Estimated Primary Completion Date : October 31, 2020
Estimated Study Completion Date : April 2021


Full details: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04352933

The cynical side of me says the challenge is identified and the conclusion has been drawn, They just need to fill the space in between.

[C3C7NIC]

Originally Posted by aerovette

The cynical side of me says the challenge is identified and the conclusion has been drawn, They just need to fill the space in between.

That is why I highlighted the specifics on the study above. Being double blind, it would be impossible for the data to be predetermined. That is what is beneficial about this type of NON bias study.

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by C3C7NIC

That is why I highlighted the specifics on the study above. Being double blind, it would be impossible for the data to be predetermined. That is what is beneficial about this type of NON bias study.

You are as trusting as I am untrusting. Yin and yang.

[JetMechZ16]

Originally Posted by C3C7NIC

That is why I highlighted the specifics on the study above. Being double blind, it would be impossible for the data to be predetermined. That is what is beneficial about this type of NON bias study.

It's not like there isn't fraud in medical studies.

Roger Poisson
In 1994 it was reported by the leaders of the National Surgical Adjuvant Breast and Bowel Project (NSABP) that a NSABP clinical investigator, Dr. Roger Poisson of St. Luc Hospital in Montréal, Canada had committed scientific fraud by fabrication or falsification of data on several NSABP breast cancer trials from 1977 through 1990 [35,36]. In 1990, a data manager at the NSABP central statistical office noted that some questionable data, especially duplicate operative reports with different dates of surgery, had been submitted by Dr. Poisson. The date changes were such that previously ineligible patients for the trial became eligible. This led to a series of audits at St. Luc that uncovered several instances of altered dates or altered hormone-receptor values. Dr. Poisson subsequently admitted to data falsification and the NSABP reported the matter to the National Cancer Institute (NCI), the sponsor of the NSABP, and to the Office of Scientific Integrity (OSI), the forerunner of the current Office of Research Integrity (ORI). St. Luc had been a major contributor to NSABP trials over the period in question (1511 patients on 22 different trials) but the detailed audits of all patients revealed that only 99 cases (6.3% of all St. Luc patients; 0.3% of all patients entered on the trials) involved any data falsification [6]. Further, the falsification was found to be limited to alterations of minor eligibility criteria of actual patients. There were no fictitious patients, no violation of the randomization process and no alteration of outcome data. Once entered onto the trial, the patients were treated and followed carefully according to the protocol, and it is now clear that the data fraud in the Poisson case did not compromise either patient safety or affect the overall conclusions of the studies. Unfortunately, due to the importance of the results of the studies for women with breast cancer, the political environment engendered by this importance, the extensive press coverage of the event, the subsequent congressional investigations

More.

Robert Fiddes
In the 1990’s Dr. Robert Fiddes was the director of the Southern California Research Institute, a for-profit institution, and was the lead clinical investigator for a large number of clinical trials conducted for pharmaceutical company sponsors. Dr. Fiddes was well-known as an investigator who could recruit patients rapidly to clinical trials with a low drop-out rate. Unfortunately, to maintain his highly successful business Dr. Fiddes had been conducting scientific fraud on an impressive scale for over a decade [40]. Ineligible patients were enrolled on trials; fictitious patients were also enrolled; some patients were pressured to enter trials; laboratory data were altered; blood pressure, EKGs and other results were fabricated; blood and urine samples were submitted that did not come from the patient enrolled (in one instance, an employee with proteinuria, a necessary eligibility criterion for some trials, was paid $25 per urine sample to be submitted as if it were a sample from an actual patient.). Dr. Fiddes was able to maintain his fraud over a long period of time despite audits and other checks until a concerned whistleblower contacted the FDA about the misconduct. After an exhaustive investigation, Dr. Fiddes pled guilty to fraud in 1997, and was sentenced to 15 months in prison [41].

Oh but look, there's more.

In 2012, JB Carlisle, a UK anesthesiologist, published an exhaustive analysis of the statistical distributions of variables from 168 randomized clinical trials conducted and published by Fujii over the previous 20 years, an extraordinary number of trials for any investigator [49]. For most of the categorical and continuous variables reported in these papers, the frequency distributions were much less variable than would be expected by chance alone, echoing and markedly extending the earlier findings on a single variable from a smaller number of studies. Carlisle’s cautiously worded conclusion was “Whether the raw data from any of these studies can be analysed, and whether this might provide an innocent explanation of such results…is beyond the scope of this paper.” [49]. In his letter replying to this paper, Fujii, as in his previous letter in 2000, again failed to address the key question raised by the statistics (i.e., what is the explanation for these remarkably implausible results?), but stated “…this article by Carlisle can obviously be very damaging to me and I want to answer it seriously, but I am not a statistician. I can only offer a few elements of rebuttal at this point…analyses of data obtained from the experiments were performed by myself and colleagues (co-authors), and this can be proved by them…The only thing I can say is that we performed the tests over years with full honesty and integrity. Additionally, I did not write these articles alone, and some of data were collected by others as well.” [50]. But this time the evidence would not be ignored. The editors of 23 journals formally requested a review by the seven institutions in Japan at which Fujii had worked [51]. Shortly thereafter, the Japanese Society of Anesthesiologists (JSA) also began an extensive investigation of 212 papers published by Fujii, including a review of lab records and interviews with other investigators whenever possible. Their findings were astonishing: Out of the 212 papers reviewed, 172 were fraudulent, including 126 ‘totally fabricated’ papers reporting the results of [52]. Meanwhile, as the investigations got underway, Dr. Fujii was no longer involved in research, having been dismissed from the university where he worked for failure to obtain ethical review board approval for his studies.

There are countless examples of medical trials being fraudulent.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4340084/

I'm just feeding the fire and playing devils advocate. In todays world everything should be scrutinized before acceptance.

[MadInNc]

https://www.anti-empire.com/how-bad-...s-perspective/


How Bad Is COVID Really? (A Swedish Doctor’s Perspective)

"It is nonsensical to compare covid to other major pandemics, like the 1918 pandemic that killed tens of millions of people. Covid will never even come close to those numbers"



Ok, I want to preface this article by stating that it is entirely anecdotal and based on my experience working as a doctor in the emergency room of one of the big hospitals in Stockholm, Sweden, and of living as a citizen in Sweden. As many people know, Sweden is perhaps the country that has taken the most relaxed attitude of any towards the covid pandemic. Unlike other countries, Sweden never went in to complete lockdown. Non-essential businesses have remained open, people have continued to go to cafés and restaurants, children have remained in school, and very few people have bothered with face masks in public.

Covid hit Stockholm like a storm in mid-March. One day I was seeing people with appendicitis and kidney stones, the usual things you see in the emergency room. The next day all those patients were gone and the only thing coming in to the hospital was covid. Practically everyone who was tested had covid, regardless of what the presenting symtom was. People came in with a nose bleed and they had covid. They came in with stomach pain and they had covid.

Then, after a few months, all the covid patients disappeared. It is now four months since the start of the pandemic, and I haven’t seen a single covid patient in over a month. When I do test someone because they have a cough or a fever, the test invariably comes back negative.

At the peak three months back, a hundred people were dying a day of covid in Sweden, a country with a population of ten million. We are now down to around five people dying per day in the whole country, and that number continues to drop. Since people generally die around three weeks after infection, that means virtually no-one is getting infected any more. If we assume around 0.5 percent of those infected die (which I think is very generous, more on that later), then that means that three weeks back 1,000 people were getting infected per day in the whole country, which works out to a daily risk per person of getting infected of 1 in 10,000, which is miniscule. And remember, the risk of dying is at the very most 1 in 200 if you actually do get infected. And that was three weeks ago. Basically, covid is in all practical senses over and done with in Sweden. After four months.

In total covid has killed under 6,000 people in a country of ten million. A country with an annual death rate of around 100,000 people. Considering that 70% of those who have died of covid are over 80 years old, quite a few of those 6,000 would have died this year anyway. That makes covid a mere blip in terms of its effect on mortality.

That is why it is nonsensical to compare covid to other major pandemics, like the 1918 pandemic that killed tens of millions of people. Covid will never even come close to those numbers. And yet many countries have shut down their entire economies, stopped children going to school, and made large portions of their population unemployed in order to deal with this disease.

The media have been proclaiming that only a small percentage of the population have antibodies, and therefore it is impossible that herd immunity has developed. Well, if herd immunity hasn’t developed, where are all the sick people? Why has the rate of infection dropped so precipitously? Considering that most people in Sweden are leading their lives normally now, not socially distancing, not wearing masks, there should still be high rates of infection.

The reason we test for antibodies is because it is easy and cheap. Antibodies are in fact not the body’s main defence against virus infections. T-cells are. But T-cells are harder to measure than antibodies, so we don’t really do it clinically. It is quite possible to have T-cells that are specific for covid and thereby make you immune to the disease, without having any antibodies. Personally, I think this is what has happened. Everybody who works in the emergency room where I work has had the antibody test. Very few actually have antibodies. This is in spite of being exposed to huge numbers of infected people, including at the beginning of the pandemic, before we realized how widespread covid was, when no-one was wearing protective equipment.

I am not denying that covid is awful for the people who do get really sick or for the families of the people who die, just as it is awful for the families of people who die of cancer, or influenza, or an opioid overdose. But the size of the response in most of the world (not including Sweden) has been totally disproportionate to the size of the threat.

Sweden ripped the metaphorical band-aid off quickly and got the epidemic over and done with in a short amount of time, while the rest of the world has chosen to try to peel the band-aid off slowly. At present that means Sweden has one of the highest total death rates in the world. But covid is over in Sweden. People have gone back to their normal lives and barely anyone is getting infected any more. I am willing to bet that the countries that have shut down completely will see rates spike when they open up. [That would assume lockdowns do something if only in the short-term, just as likely it is down to normal variation between countries/cities every flu season.] If that is the case, then there won’t have been any point in shutting down in the first place, because all those countries are going to end up with the same number of dead at the end of the day anyway. Shutting down completely in order to decrease the total number of deaths only makes sense if you are willing to stay shut down until a vaccine is available. That could take years. No country is willing to wait that long.

Covid has at present killed less than 6000 in Sweden. It is very unlikely that the number of dead will go above 7,000. An average influenza year in Sweden, 700 people die of influenza. [A comparison to a very bad influenza season, rather than an average one, would be even better.] Does that mean covid is ten times worse than influenza? No, because influenza has been around for centuries while covid is completely new. In an average influenza year most people already have some level of immunity because they’ve been infected with a similar strain previously, or because they’re vaccinated. So it is quite possible, in fact likely, that the case fatality rate for covid is the same as for influenza, or only slightly higher, and the entire difference we have seen is due to the complete lack of any immunity in the population at the start of this pandemic.

This conclusion makes sense of the Swedish fatality numbers – if we’ve reached a point where there is hardly any active infection going on any more in Sweden in spite of the fact that there is barely any social distancing happening then that means at least 50% of the population has been infected already and have developed immunity [or had it from previos coronaviruses], which is five million people. This number is perfectly reasonable if we assume a reproductive number for the virus of two: If each person infects two new, with a five day period between being infected and infecting others, and you start out with just one infected person in the country, then you will reach a point where several million are infected in just four months. If only 6000 are dead out of five million infected, that works out to a case fatality rate of 0.12 percent, roughly the same as regular old influenza, which no-one is the least bit frightened of, and which we don’t shut down our societies for.

[Millenium Vette]

Originally Posted by C3C7NIC

Are you mad because you ARE that guy with a random item up his pooper?

I ain't mad. Oh, and I ain't THAT guy either.....

I know plenty of doctors so I've heard a few stories over the years about the shit patients have come in with. The most memorable was the dude that came in with a Barbie doll shoved up his ass. Heard the story years ago but I remember him saying the arms presented a special challenge in the removal.

[Raazor]

Originally Posted by MadInNc

https://www.anti-empire.com/how-bad-...s-perspective/


How Bad Is COVID Really? (A Swedish Doctor’s Perspective)

"It is nonsensical to compare covid to other major pandemics, like the 1918 pandemic that killed tens of millions of people. Covid will never even come close to those numbers"



Ok, I want to preface this article by stating that it is entirely anecdotal and based on my experience working as a doctor in the emergency room of one of the big hospitals in Stockholm, Sweden, and of living as a citizen in Sweden. As many people know, Sweden is perhaps the country that has taken the most relaxed attitude of any towards the covid pandemic. Unlike other countries, Sweden never went in to complete lockdown. Non-essential businesses have remained open, people have continued to go to cafés and restaurants, children have remained in school, and very few people have bothered with face masks in public.

Covid hit Stockholm like a storm in mid-March. One day I was seeing people with appendicitis and kidney stones, the usual things you see in the emergency room. The next day all those patients were gone and the only thing coming in to the hospital was covid. Practically everyone who was tested had covid, regardless of what the presenting symtom was. People came in with a nose bleed and they had covid. They came in with stomach pain and they had covid.

Then, after a few months, all the covid patients disappeared. It is now four months since the start of the pandemic, and I haven’t seen a single covid patient in over a month. When I do test someone because they have a cough or a fever, the test invariably comes back negative.

At the peak three months back, a hundred people were dying a day of covid in Sweden, a country with a population of ten million. We are now down to around five people dying per day in the whole country, and that number continues to drop. Since people generally die around three weeks after infection, that means virtually no-one is getting infected any more. If we assume around 0.5 percent of those infected die (which I think is very generous, more on that later), then that means that three weeks back 1,000 people were getting infected per day in the whole country, which works out to a daily risk per person of getting infected of 1 in 10,000, which is miniscule. And remember, the risk of dying is at the very most 1 in 200 if you actually do get infected. And that was three weeks ago. Basically, covid is in all practical senses over and done with in Sweden. After four months.

In total covid has killed under 6,000 people in a country of ten million. A country with an annual death rate of around 100,000 people. Considering that 70% of those who have died of covid are over 80 years old, quite a few of those 6,000 would have died this year anyway. That makes covid a mere blip in terms of its effect on mortality.

That is why it is nonsensical to compare covid to other major pandemics, like the 1918 pandemic that killed tens of millions of people. Covid will never even come close to those numbers. And yet many countries have shut down their entire economies, stopped children going to school, and made large portions of their population unemployed in order to deal with this disease.

The media have been proclaiming that only a small percentage of the population have antibodies, and therefore it is impossible that herd immunity has developed. Well, if herd immunity hasn’t developed, where are all the sick people? Why has the rate of infection dropped so precipitously? Considering that most people in Sweden are leading their lives normally now, not socially distancing, not wearing masks, there should still be high rates of infection.

The reason we test for antibodies is because it is easy and cheap. Antibodies are in fact not the body’s main defence against virus infections. T-cells are. But T-cells are harder to measure than antibodies, so we don’t really do it clinically. It is quite possible to have T-cells that are specific for covid and thereby make you immune to the disease, without having any antibodies. Personally, I think this is what has happened. Everybody who works in the emergency room where I work has had the antibody test. Very few actually have antibodies. This is in spite of being exposed to huge numbers of infected people, including at the beginning of the pandemic, before we realized how widespread covid was, when no-one was wearing protective equipment.

I am not denying that covid is awful for the people who do get really sick or for the families of the people who die, just as it is awful for the families of people who die of cancer, or influenza, or an opioid overdose. But the size of the response in most of the world (not including Sweden) has been totally disproportionate to the size of the threat.

Sweden ripped the metaphorical band-aid off quickly and got the epidemic over and done with in a short amount of time, while the rest of the world has chosen to try to peel the band-aid off slowly. At present that means Sweden has one of the highest total death rates in the world. But covid is over in Sweden. People have gone back to their normal lives and barely anyone is getting infected any more. I am willing to bet that the countries that have shut down completely will see rates spike when they open up. [That would assume lockdowns do something if only in the short-term, just as likely it is down to normal variation between countries/cities every flu season.] If that is the case, then there won’t have been any point in shutting down in the first place, because all those countries are going to end up with the same number of dead at the end of the day anyway. Shutting down completely in order to decrease the total number of deaths only makes sense if you are willing to stay shut down until a vaccine is available. That could take years. No country is willing to wait that long.

Covid has at present killed less than 6000 in Sweden. It is very unlikely that the number of dead will go above 7,000. An average influenza year in Sweden, 700 people die of influenza. [A comparison to a very bad influenza season, rather than an average one, would be even better.] Does that mean covid is ten times worse than influenza? No, because influenza has been around for centuries while covid is completely new. In an average influenza year most people already have some level of immunity because they’ve been infected with a similar strain previously, or because they’re vaccinated. So it is quite possible, in fact likely, that the case fatality rate for covid is the same as for influenza, or only slightly higher, and the entire difference we have seen is due to the complete lack of any immunity in the population at the start of this pandemic.

This conclusion makes sense of the Swedish fatality numbers – if we’ve reached a point where there is hardly any active infection going on any more in Sweden in spite of the fact that there is barely any social distancing happening then that means at least 50% of the population has been infected already and have developed immunity [or had it from previos coronaviruses], which is five million people. This number is perfectly reasonable if we assume a reproductive number for the virus of two: If each person infects two new, with a five day period between being infected and infecting others, and you start out with just one infected person in the country, then you will reach a point where several million are infected in just four months. If only 6000 are dead out of five million infected, that works out to a case fatality rate of 0.12 percent, roughly the same as regular old influenza, which no-one is the least bit frightened of, and which we don’t shut down our societies for.

cliffs?