The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread

[Onebadcad]

Originally Posted by GTOguy

Yep. And remember 'The Population Explosion' that was supposed to end the world by 2000, when all the gas and oil had run out?
Funny, I remember being in Los Angeles in '72 and not being able to see any of the surrounding mountains due to brown smog. Today, with maybe 3 times the cars and people, the air is much better. Even my 19 year old Tundra qualifis as a ULEV (Ultra low emissions vehicle) with a v8 engine. This whole entire EV and Solar Panel/wind power agenda is simply to keep the public afraid and compliant.

We need a new thread on solar panels, as greatly FULLY funded by taxpayers!!
I know a dood, not family, not friend, had solars put on roof, big house, so was $80K.
In ten years he gets back about 75% of that $80K in tax breaks, and claims he will save $200/month on electric bill.

MY MATH, $80K investment, only saves $24K on electric bill in 10 years, WTF is the rationale for this??

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by Onebadcad

Based on this source, that would have been 1985.

https://www.lsxmag.com/news/corvette...ble-dream-car/

Just a tiny bit of inflation since then. NFW will there ever be a quality long-range EV that anybody would want for $25k.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Onebadcad

We need a new thread on solar panels, as greatly FULLY funded by taxpayers!!
I know a dood, not family, not friend, had solars put on roof, big house, so was $80K.
In ten years he gets back about 75% of that $80K in tax breaks, and claims he will save $200/month on electric bill.

MY MATH, $80K investment, only saves $24K on electric bill in 10 years, WTF is the rationale for this??

I find solar to be too expensive if you can't install it yourself. For DIY'ers like me, solar isn't too much and can pay for itself in 5 to 6 years.
Only reason why I haven't gone solar yet is my power company. I believe that we have the only power company in the nation that charges demand charges for their solar plan. In winter, the sun isn't up before like 7:30 am or even later and PEAK starts at 6 AM and they would charge demand charges between that time. The only way to avoid those is by adding a battery or 2 and that gets expensive.

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

Just a tiny bit of inflation since then. NFW will there ever be a quality long-range EV that anybody would want for $25k.

Especially ones from China.

[Onebadcad]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I find solar to be too expensive if you can't install it yourself. For DIY'ers like me, solar isn't too much and can pay for itself in 5 to 6 years.
Only reason why I haven't gone solar yet is my power company. I believe that we have the only power company in the nation that charges demand charges for their solar plan. In winter, the sun isn't up before like 7:30 am or even later and PEAK starts at 6 AM and they would charge demand charges between that time. The only way to avoid those is by adding a battery or 2 and that gets expensive.

An issue I see today, and one that will get worse, is that some insurance companies will not provide coverage if you have panels.
Not sure to what extent, but would also expect those who offer coverage for paneled roofs MAY charge a premium and / or limit the coverage due to the weight it places on roof.

[Aerovette]

Who remembers this from school? The Ecology flag. We learned about mercury in the ocean and cigarette smoke and factory smoke stacks, etc.

[ricks327]

Originally Posted by Onebadcad

An issue I see today, and one that will get worse, is that some insurance companies will not provide coverage if you have panels.
Not sure to what extent, but would also expect those who offer coverage for paneled roofs MAY charge a premium and / or limit the coverage due to the weight it places on roof.

In regards to panels on a homes roof. Hopefully the roof shingles were new when the panels were installed as I understand that the life expectancy is shorter than roof shingles. Otherwise, you pay to have the panels installed, then taken down for a re-shingle and then to have the panels re-installed.

[GTOguy]

Originally Posted by Aerovette

Who remembers this from school? The Ecology flag. We learned about mercury in the ocean and cigarette smoke and factory smoke stacks, etc.

I remember the green 'PEACE--ECOLOGY NOW' stickers from that era (1970-ish)

They were on every pollution-spewing VW bus in the SF Bay Area where I lived.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Onebadcad

An issue I see today, and one that will get worse, is that some insurance companies will not provide coverage if you have panels.
Not sure to what extent, but would also expect those who offer coverage for paneled roofs MAY charge a premium and / or limit the coverage due to the weight it places on roof.

If I go solar, it will be rack mounted or gazebo mounted. Not going to install on the roof.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Overall, I don't see the overall trend of EV sales growing every year to stop, just not at the same rate as in prior years.

3 quarters left to catch back up...

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/02/tesl...n-numbers.html

Here are the key numbers:

Total deliveries Q1 2024: 386,810
Total production Q1 2024: 433,371

...
In the same period last year, the electric automaker reported 422,875 deliveries and production of 440,808 vehicles.
...

Vehicle production declined around 1.7% from a year earlier and 12.5% sequentially for Tesla, not nearly as steeply as the 8.5% annual drop in deliveries.

Tesla’s deliveries for the quarter fell far below even the most bearish of analysts’ expectations.

According to a mean of 11 estimates compiled by FactSet, analysts were expecting deliveries of around 457,000 for the period ended March 31. Estimates ranged from a high of 511,000 deliveries to a low of 414,000 for the first quarter, with estimates updated in March ranging from 414,000 to 469,000 deliveries.

Tesla's statement says “decline in volumes was partially due to the early phase of the production ramp of the updated Model 3 at our Fremont [California] factory and factory shutdowns.”

That may be a little more valid as the reason if you didn't build 46,561 more than you sold ...

Now imagine where they'd be if they didn't get handed a $7500 head start on each car by daddy .gov.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

3 quarters left to catch back up...

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/02/tesl...n-numbers.html



Tesla's statement says “decline in volumes was partially due to the early phase of the production ramp of the updated Model 3 at our Fremont [California] factory and factory shutdowns.”

That may be a little more valid as the reason if you didn't build 46,561 more than you sold ...

Now imagine where they'd be if they didn't get handed a $7500 head start on each car by daddy .gov.

The bigger reason for the drop is less demand in China due to Chinese competition. Don't forget, those are GLOBAL numbers and the Chinese market is very tough.. It won't get any easier for Tesla going forward. Very soon, chinese EV makers will enter the US market as well.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

If Tesla or any other EV maker comes out with a long range $25k EV, it would be a game changer. It comes down to cost.

Well no shit.

Maybe Elon can get daddy .gov to increase the bailout "tax credit" to about $30k per car to actually make that possible.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Well no shit.

Maybe Elon can get daddy .gov to increase the bailout "tax credit" to about $30k per car to actually make that possible.

Tesla actually opposed the tax credit. It's not like the Biden administration actually likes Tesla/Elon. They hate him.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

The bigger reason for the drop is less demand in China due to Chinese competition. Don't forget, those are GLOBAL numbers and the Chinese market is very tough.. It won't get any easier for Tesla going forward. Very soon, chinese EV makers will enter the US market as well.

Your comment:

I don't see the overall trend of EV sales growing every year to stop

Tesla dropped significantly in Q1. Total EV sales were very close to flat despite an overall 5% increase YoY in total new car sales. EV market share DROPPED from 7.6% to 7.1%.

...and that's with daddy .gov footing the bill for $7500 of every car.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Your comment:



Tesla dropped significantly in Q1. Total EV sales were very close to flat despite an overall 5% increase YoY in total new car sales. EV market share DROPPED from 7.6% to 7.1%.

...and that's with daddy .gov footing the bill for $7500 of every car.

My comment was regarding the US market. Of course, the Model 3 re-tooling did affect production numbers.
Let's talk at the end of the year to see if the year over year numbers are up or down.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

My comment was regarding the US market. Of course, the Model 3 re-tooling did affect production numbers.
Let's talk at the end of the year to see if the year over year numbers are up or down.

Like I said. 3 quarters to go.

Too bad we won't get to actually see any numbers not being significantly influenced by the .gov.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Very soon, chinese EV makers will enter the US market as well.

And anybody who is dumb enough to buy a Chinese EV deserves exactly what they get.

[Onebadcad]

Originally Posted by Aerovette

Who remembers this from school? The Ecology flag. We learned about mercury in the ocean and cigarette smoke and factory smoke stacks, etc.

I knew it was a scam way back then.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Like I said. 3 quarters to go.

Too bad we won't get to actually see any numbers not being significantly influenced by the .gov.

Influenced? Certainly... Significantly? I doubt it..

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

And anybody who is dumb enough to buy a Chinese EV deserves exactly what they get.

Price sells.. If Chinese EV's enter the US market and they have better range and lower price than US EV's, they will sell great. I don't see myself getting one but price sells.