The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread

[ptindall]

Originally Posted by Kevin68

Because some people might want to fly for $275 and carry their bag and sit in a middle seat.



Because some people (@ptindall, ) have their own mounting equipment and can save some money.

Sounds like you want someone else to subsidize your add-ons.

[Mick]

Originally Posted by LATB

Yes and he wants legislation to protect the stupid. You can’t fix stupid no matter how hard the socialists try. I’m surprised that any conservative would support this, maybe I misread his political views.

Maybe, but probably not. I think you are just forgetting that he is from Austria. So when he says he is strongly in favor of "capitalism", what he means is that he is in favor of that "European-style capitalism", which is the same as socialism. Read back a page or two with that in mind, and you will see he is very consistent.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

So, you think it's OK for them to fool lower IQ people with their ads?

So you think that the answer is for the government to eliminate all speech and content both in printed and digital spaces that might confuse people "lower IQ" people?

Seems reasonable.

Just wait until you realize that the advertised range of your Tesla isn't what you will actually get after you buy it. Funny, those disclaimers are all in the fine print. MISLEADING!!! DISHONEST!!! ILLEGAL!!!!

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Onebadcad

I believe Spirit was the first airline to price al a carte.
When they did so, there was no much consumer applause, and ALL other airlines thought it was dumb, and would not work.
Well, about 6 months after, Spirit's bottom line got VERY healthy.
One by one the other airlines copied the pricing model.
Today most do this to some extent, consumers do not mind, they shop for the very lowest total flight cost.

I do not fly much, but when I do it is private, no smaller than a G5, must have at least three stripper poles, and a fully stocked scotch bar!!

The difference is that you can actually get the price advertised by Spirit/Frontier if you don't use a carry on or bag. I actually love the a la carte approach. I just took my daughter to NYC for a long weekend. We flew from Orlando to Newark/NJ for $84 per person. 2 back bags/personal items were enough for us and we didn't pay for seats as kids and parents are seated together anyways. If you'd compare Spirit's prices with car dealers, it would be like Spirit advertising one price at for example $84 round trip and when you get to the airport, they automatically add up a seat charge of $40 per person. However, that's not the case. You don't have to choose a seat to get the flight for that price. You are not forced to add a luggage or carry on to get that price.. Nobody is mislead with that. Misleading would be advertising a price that you can only get if you spend additional money on options for example. So, the flight is $84 as long as you buy the carry on for $60

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

So you think that the answer is for the government to eliminate all speech and content both in printed and digital spaces that might confuse people "lower IQ" people?

Seems reasonable.

Just wait until you realize that the advertised range of your Tesla isn't what you will actually get after you buy it. Funny, those disclaimers are all in the fine print. MISLEADING!!! DISHONEST!!! ILLEGAL!!!!

It's not limiting speech. It's limiting businesses intentionally misleading customers.

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by Kevin68

Sounds like you want someone else to subsidize your add-ons.

No. Tell me what 4 tires cost.

The VAST majority of tire purchasers don't mount and balance their own tires.

Include the fees and all and don't bait me with a $25.00 price and hope I won't leave when it becomes a $75.00 price.

I had landscaping quoted and I told the guy I want his price to be what ever the price is for me to sit on my ass until it's completely finished and he is leaving.

I did the same with phone service and electricity providers.

Here is my kwh usage for August. Tell me what that will cost me if I change to your plan. All in, taxes, fees everything.

I don't want that 6 cents / kwh shit and find out that's only between 2:17 AM and 5:13 AM.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Aerovette

I don't want that 6 cents / kwh shit and find out that's only between 2:17 AM and 5:13 AM.

My utility actually has a tool that compares all price plans they have based on your actual usage and it will tell you what price plan would save you most money. I thought that this was pretty cool.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Fair market price on a car is MSRP.
I'm not really opposed of dealers marking up cars but they should be required to post the ACTUAL price after mark ups in their ads instead of posting misleading ads with fake prices.
You know very well that the INTENTION of advertising a fake price with lots of small print in the ad is misleading. That's by DESIGN. They want to CONFUSE people to believe that the price is the actual price that they pay IN ORDER TO GET THEM TO THE DEALERSHIP so that they can bamboozle them with their sales game. I wasn't born yesterday and I don't fall for those games but unfortunately, many people do. It's the SAME EXACT REASON by some dealers list cars at a cheap price that were sold a while ago. It's to get people into the dealership so that they can bamboozle them with their sales game. The average IQ of car buyers is often not very high and those snakes take advantage of that. It's disgusting to me.

As I posted earlier, you are all spun up about nothing.

You have no idea what I know very well. I will share with you something that I do know, you are the only person that I have seen make such a big deal about this.

Businesses do all sorts of things to get their customers attention. For example, the larger production home builders will have models on their website and even a big sign at a new subdivision that will read: “New homes from $399K” and when you check out the available homes every one has upgrades and they are all priced well over 400K.

Big freaking whoop. Negotiate your best deal or go the eff away.
We don’t need more government regulations to protect the ignorant and stupid. Lowering the bar and over regulation to protect a few ignorant people ruins life for the rest of us. It’s what liberals and big government GOPe fools do.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Now, try to call the dealership and check if you can actually get the car for $114940


https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

That lists the MSRP. It doesn’t list the total price. Only a moron thinks they’re the same thing.

[Unsuspicious]

"Fair market price on a car is MSRP."
You serious? msrp is advertising.
Has absolutely ****all to do with market, because guess what- markets are different by region and manufacturers only put out one msrp. Strange huh.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by LATB

As I posted earlier, you are all spun up about nothing.

You have no idea what I know very well. I will share with you something that I do know, you are the only person that I have seen make such a big deal about this.

Businesses do all sorts of things to get their customers attention. For example, the larger production home builders will have models on their website and even a big sign at a new subdivision that will read: “New homes from $399K” and when you check out the available homes every one has upgrades and they are all priced well over 400K.

Big freaking whoop. Negotiate your best deal or go the eff away.
We don’t need more government regulations to protect the ignorant and stupid. Lowering the bar and over regulation to protect a few ignorant people ruins life for the rest of us. It’s what liberals and big government GOPe fools do.

It's not that I don't know that. They do a lot of misleading to get them into the door. It's the same as those timeshare promotions. They give you free Disney tickets to attend the presentation to fool you into getting a timeshare.
I'm disgusted by sleazy salespeople and I avoid them at all cost.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

That lists the MSRP. It doesn’t list the total price. Only a moron thinks they’re the same thing.

When you do a search, that car comes up first. It's to mislead customers.
If you search cars by price, the cheapest cars should come up first. You shouldn't have to read through each ad or have to call the dealership to find the real price. It makes looking for the best deal time consuming.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Fair market price on a car is MSRP.

This is not true and may be the most incorrect post you’ve made in the thread.
Mufacturers
Suggested
Retail
Price

When the auto makers design and engineer and price their vehicles they are months/years away from those vehicles hitting the market. They have no idea what the market conditions will be when the vehicles become available for the consumer.

Sometimes the market is weak and the manufactures/dealers will offer discounts and/or incentives.
Conversely, if the market is strong the manufacturer will not offer the incentives and dealers will also act accordingly.

Real estate works in a similar market driven manner.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I can tell you why it is.. If your price shows artificially low and someone sorts by price, low to high, the cheapest price comes up first. If that price is actually fake, this is a CLEAR CASE OF MISLEADING! You know very well that car dealers do that to MISLEAD - PERIOD! They want to make an expensive car look cheap so that it comes up first in search by price.

Let me change my argument. I've bee You lacking the required critical thinking skills to understand why is irrelevant.

No matter what the reason... even if it is a shady ass slimy salesman...

If you really are too stupid to figure out what the price of a car is, despite having all of the numbers right in front of you, that's a you problem. The stance that the government should regulate all advertising across private websites to make sure that nobody is confused is absolutely absurd.

IT IS NOT THE GOVERNMENT'S RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT YOU FROM BEING A ****ING IDIOT.

Simple enough?

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Protecting customers should be supported by any and all political parties. Selling things based on supply and demand is one thing but intentionally misleading people is another thing. Customers should be protected from predatory practices, not the free market.

Third time from me…
You have NOT shown us any evidence of dealers intentionally misleading people.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

When you do a search, that car comes up first. It's to mislead customers.
If you search cars by price, the cheapest cars should come up first. You shouldn't have to read through each ad or have to call the dealership to find the real price. It makes looking for the best deal time consuming.

Are you ****ing serious? You want the government to regulate advertisements ... because it's time consuming? Clicking on a listing takes too much time? That's really your argument?

You want the government... to pass laws and regulate the entire f**king internet... to save you the time of reading.

Holy shit.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by LATB

Third time from me…
You have NOT shown us any evidence of dealers intentionally misleading people.

Try to keep up.

We've now shifted to the government regulating what is posted on privately held internet sites so he can find the best deal in less time.

LIBERTARIAN!!!!

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Fair market rent is a guide posted by government for each area. Most of my rents are at or below fair market rent.

Anyways, I'm not opposed for anyone charging more AS LONG AS THEY DON'T PLAY GAMES TO HIDE WHAT THEY ARE ACTUALLY CHARGING.

It's like advertising a house for rent for $1400 per month. There is a small print at the add that says that (Rent includes a $200 discount for first responders)
Now, let's say that the prospective tenants don't see the small print with the asterisk and they sign the contract which is 10 pages long and somewhere in those 10 pages, it says in small print that "an additional monthly charge of $200 applies for someone who is not a first responder".
MOST people don't read all 10 pages of the contract. I'm a Landlord, and never, ever anyone really reads the entire lease before signing it..
Legally, I can charge the $1600 instead of $1400 because they signed it without completely reading it. So, I created LEGALLY an additional $200 income becuase I embedded that little detail deep into the contract that they didn't fully read and at the end of the contract, there is a disclaimer that "By signing this, I have read and understand the contract"....
Is it legal to do that?? Probably is.. Is it ethical?? NOPE.. Same goes for sleazy car dealerships..

Funny but I recently seen a Judge Judy episode where a used car buyer actually had a 30 day 50/50 warranty and began having trouble with the car many months after the purchase and he thought the warranty was 100% for 30 days and 50/50 thereafter. The plaintiff had to be schooled by the good judge to educate the fool and told him to read the contract or have someone else read it and explain it for him.

Point being if you are too stupid to actually read the contract you are signing then you will face whatever consequences that may come at you.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

When you do a search, that car comes up first. It's to mislead customers.
If you search cars by price, the cheapest cars should come up first. You shouldn't have to read through each ad or have to call the dealership to find the real price. It makes looking for the best deal time consuming.

It’s called advertising.

Who says the cheapest cars should come up first in a search, you?

You are NOT a conservative or libertarian. Not. Even. Close.

[Aerovette]

People get blinded or go deaf by what they want and don't see or hear what they need to.

Marketing's sole purpose is to get you drawn in the direction they were hired to pull you.

I have a friend that used to work at WalMart. For Black Friday, they'd advertise a 75 inch TV for $189.00 or some crazy thing. The footnote says "limited supply". Some stores got ONE TV to sell at that price. Some got ZERO. Nothing about the ad was false.

Watch a shampoo commercial. "Makes hair feel healthier and stronger in just one week". Is it healtheir or stronger? Hell no, but it "feels" like it is.