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Politics & Religion Discussion of politics and religion |
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04-16-2024, 9:53pm | #41 | |||||||
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04-16-2024, 10:40pm | #42 | ||||||||
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At the Federal level, the same way it worked until 1913 and locally, the same it works today. Even California allows people to have private fire fighters and numerous famous people have private security...that they pay for without gov't assistance.
Not even remotely close. It is a fee. You pay for your portion of usage. A tax, and particularly progressive taxes, is distorted and not proportional. You currently pay for the majority of Federal parks or Amtrak, or roads or...that you may use far less than your proportional taxation. You and your ilk would like to distribute those costs amongst your fellow citizens in the hope you get something for "free". Collectivism is at the heart of socialism and communism. Concentrated benefits, disbursed costs. Are you afraid to pay for your proportion of road construction and maintenance costs? Will the gov't or private industry be more efficient with the available funds? Quote:
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And to be clear, I am talking about federal taxes. Federal government clearly has some constitutional duties that need to be funded...common defense, administering justice, protecting individual rights from state or federal intrusions, border security, adjudicating tort and contract disputes...I'm willing to listen to ideas about how to fund those functions. States have more regional functions and more freedom to experiment (in theory, if not for their addiction to other people's money). As we are currently seeing with national migration patterns, people are voting with their feet. This is a good thing. |
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04-17-2024, 7:00am | #43 | |||||||
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You have completely flipped the argument. The quote was "taxation is theft" not "federal taxation is theft." So you're pro taxes just at the state level? Investors? Go to the bank and try to borrow a few billion dollars without a current revenue stream and see how fast they laugh you out of the bank. The gov't can currently borrow b/c they have a revenue stream ie taxes, to show the ability to pay it back. As far as your claim of strawman. No, when you have no taxes you see what you get. Western Sahara is another metropolis that doesn't tax its people...how is that working out? There are plenty of countries that don't charge income tax, have you visited one? You'll be quick to notice a 20+% VAT on everything you buy. The gov't is getting its money one way or another. Again...name any civilization in history that thrived and became an empire without some sort of taxation system. |
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04-17-2024, 7:03am | #44 | |||||||
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Your only argument is to call someone a lefty b/c you lack the intellect to think of anything else as a retort. You would have a very hard time being more conservative than me. The difference is I understand business and I don't copy memes from twitter and make them my talking points. |
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04-17-2024, 7:13am | #45 | |||||||
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You're the one who refused to engage because of your perceived "correct" stance. I just pointed out that this is a common tactic used by the left. I'm happy that you think I'm stupid...it just highlights to everyone else who reads posts here how disconnected from reality you can be. |
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04-17-2024, 7:29am | #46 | |||||||
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The problem is you are as infected with identity politics as any liberal... you're just on the other side of the spectrum. That's why calling me a lefty is your only retort. Here was our last interaction...to refresh your memory. Apparently, if someone likes a particular type of car, you hate them. Very logical and highly intellectual thought process. (BTW that was sarcasm) |
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04-17-2024, 7:55am | #47 | |||||||
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As far as the liking EVs thing...never said I hate those people. I said f*** them, and we can never be friends. There are very few people in this world that I will say that I "hate." I'm actually not a conservative, I'm a libertarian, but hey the FEDGOV considers us both terrorists anyways so I suppose there's common ground there. |
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04-17-2024, 10:39am | #48 | ||||||||||
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The case for local and state use taxes is stronger because: a) states have more freedom (constitutionally) to experiment with different funding schemes and services, b) if I disagree with the cost-benefit calculation I have a reasonable remedy and c) my representation is more direct and accessible rather than literally one in a million. I think that a supermajority of people would agree that police, fire and emergency services should be a shared expense (despite the fact that I think that privatization of those services can probably be accomplished with better results and at a lower cost). Perhaps the same is true for some local roads...although I live on a private road that my neighbors and I pay to maintain at a far lower cost than the county ever could. Let me try this, what do you call it when you are forced to turn over a portion of your wages or property to someone who then uses it as they see fit or decides to give to someone else? Is there any legal or moral justification for this? Quote:
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The US had no income taxes prior to 1913 and we managed to thrive. |
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04-17-2024, 12:18pm | #49 | ||||||||
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I can promise you pay for service EMS does not work for anyone other than the wealthy. I have been consulting in the Bahamas for over a decade. Life outside of the resort areas is much much different. Rolling brownouts daily and their public health system routinely means 3 hour wait times for emergency services. Our system, supported by taxes, is exponentially better. Boeing et al is able to show prior sales data to walk into a bank and borrow billions. I don't know how they started but gov't assistance is likely in that type of scenario. If you assembled a bunch of aerospace engineers and tried to start a new company, you will not be able to walk in and borrow billions...that is the point I was making. RE: turning over my money to the system, I am a routine follower of Open the Books and I realize our gov't is broken...beyond repair. As was pointed out earlier, we are supposed to be taxed "with representation" The problem is the greed of man. That is why the average life of an empire is 200 yrs. Most of the GOP are as corrupt at the Left, bc of the money and power they are afforded by working at the fed. Term & lobbying limits would help this considerably, but it would not fix it. As far as moral justification, Christ said "pay to Caesar what is Caesar's." I will do that and continue to vote for lower taxes. I just don't' expect anything for free. I am taxed for public schools and pay $40k+/yr to send my kids to private school...its my choice. It gets back to the response we give the left...if you don't like it, leave. For better or worse there is still no better place on the planet to live. |
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04-17-2024, 5:47pm | #50 | |||||||||||
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I don't give that response to the left (even though I'd be happier if they emmigrated). The fact that the majority tramples my rights is insufficient reason for me to leave (or suggest my departure). The constitution states that my government is supposed to protect my rights, even if unpopular. It's the essence of the American experiment. |
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04-17-2024, 6:01pm | #51 | ||||||
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04-17-2024, 6:45pm | #52 | ||||||||
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04-18-2024, 12:09pm | #53 | ||||||||
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At least that's how I've interpreted that verse. I've never read it as an endorsement of paying taxes or justification for taxation in general. Yet, here I am, paying my taxes because not doing so would end badly for me. I reserve my right to point out the insanity of our current tax system as much as I want and lobby for alternatives that are more economical, functional and fair. |
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04-18-2024, 12:30pm | #54 | ||||||
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