Choose your color scheme:
The Vette Barn  
 
Go Back   The Vette Barn > Off Topic/Babes/Other > Politics & Religion

Politics & Religion Discussion of politics and religion

User Tag List

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-19-2013, 10:10am   #1
RedLS1GTO
C4 Mod
Barn Raising II,III
Points: 58,720, Level: 100
Activity: 87.8%
 
RedLS1GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cincinnati, OH ....ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑBE....
Posts: 13,732
Thanks: 1,298
Thanked 7,705 Times in 3,420 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $19752494
Default {Hypothetical} Civil War II

Let me begin by saying that I don't think it will come to this. Not because liberals don't want to take guns, but because even they aren't stupid enough to think that they could.

Hypothetically... let's say that a nationwide ban and confiscation was put in place. How do you think it would play out?

My thoughts are this: I have talked with a lot of my friends still in the military since this all began. The majority are in the O-3 to O-6 range and spanning the Navy, Marines, and Army (didn't do much with the Air Force). 1 commands a guided missile cruiser, quite a few are SOF. I am not name dropping (or rank dropping) for any reason other than to point out that these are the people who would be giving the orders.

None... NOT A SINGLE 1... would give the command to use force against otherwise law abiding American citizens in order to confiscate firearms. Quite the opposite actually. I have also not found 1 who would turn in their own personally owned firearms if ordered to do so.

The liberal viewpoint seems to be that the military would come in and do the dirty work of disarming citizens. Simply put... from everything I have seen over the last 13 years that I have been tied to the military, you are wrong. The leadership of our military is not made up of mindless drones that simply do as they are told. They do not abandon their core beliefs because some asshat in Washington tells them to do so. That is in large part what makes us the greatest military the World has ever imagined.

Ask yourself a question... if by some terrible series of events (undoubtedly led by our dipshit president) leads to an actual conflict between the government and the people, whose side do you think the military will actually be on?

The argument has been made in past discussions that the military has much more than rifles at their disposal which is indeed true. But, who exactly is going to use those weapons against civilians? Who is going to roll a tank down the street? Who is going to pilot an AC-130 over a small town American neighborhood? Who is going to give batteries release to a UAV over Iowa? Who is going to plan the TLAM mission into a suburban sub division? Who is going to give the order to launch?

Even if they did initially support gun legislation, do you really think the public would support their neighbor's house being hit with a TLAM? How many LEOs, servicemen, kids, and innocent bystanders would have to be killed before public opinion was against the government?

We haven't even considered the fact that with the way our military bases are set up, it would not be difficult for an armed civilian population to take control of the bases and in turn all of the weapons on those bases. Start with some of the reserve and National Guard units and as you gain weapons, you can in turn use them against the larger facilities. If a "resistance" was able to capture any East coast Naval base... just 1... it would be all over.

It wouldn't take much at all. I'm just 1 lowly person and if you gave me a DDG or a CG in Norfolk, VA, with a crew of about 10 people I have the skillset to not only plan the mission, but launch a full salvo of Tomahawk missiles anywhere on the East coast... including turning the White House and Capitol into piles of rubble. I am not claiming to be special nor am I some kind of badass. There are countless people with those same skillsets.

It wouldn't take an army to bring the government to it's knees. It would only take a small fraction of the military. A few surface ships, an air wing, hell, a single SSGN with leadership opposing the government's position could wipe out the entire command structure in DC if it came down to it. Notice I said SSGN, not SSBN. I am not talking about launching nukes. I am going with precision strikes against specific targets.


Long story short. People can talk about taking guns all they want and the government imposing their will by force, but in a war between the government and the people... the people of this country will win. Period.

Last edited by RedLS1GTO; 02-19-2013 at 10:23am.
RedLS1GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 10:39am   #2
lander
A Real Barner
Points: 17,159, Level: 90
Activity: 13.1%
 
lander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,113
Thanks: 745
Thanked 1,530 Times in 799 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $402921
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO View Post
We haven't even considered the fact that with the way our military bases are set up, it would not be difficult for an armed civilian population to take control of the bases and in turn all of the weapons on those bases. Start with some of the reserve and National Guard units and as you gain weapons, you can in turn use them against the larger facilities. If a "resistance" was able to capture any East coast Naval base... just 1... it would be all over.

This was the exact point I made to several here where I work when they said "what are you going to do with the guns you have up against the army?". We just need to progress up the ladder of available resources, that's all. We don't have to have everything on hand...we just need to have the ability to go get it.

Police forces may initially try to stop those attempting to regain this country, but eventually even they would stop or be overwhelmed.

They can keep trying to take away our guns, but they forget one major thing....we have guns!
lander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 10:55am   #3
RedLS1GTO
C4 Mod
Barn Raising II,III
Points: 58,720, Level: 100
Activity: 87.8%
 
RedLS1GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cincinnati, OH ....ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑBE....
Posts: 13,732
Thanks: 1,298
Thanked 7,705 Times in 3,420 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $19752494
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lander View Post
Police forces may initially try to stop those attempting to regain this country, but eventually even they would stop or be overwhelmed.
Personally, I'm not putting myself in harms way unless it is a cause that I truly believe in. I find it hard to believe that a significant portion of ANY law enforcement agency would have a strong enough conviction to disarm Americans that they would willingly sacrifice their own lives to do so. As you said, they might initially be onboard simply due to following orders but without that conviction, when the bullets start flying, it doesn't take seeing too many of your buddies killed to realize that it isn't worth it.
RedLS1GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 4:00pm   #4
Sea Six
Barn Stall Owner #16A
Barn Stall Owner #16B

NCM Supporter '11,'13
Bantayan Kids '13
Points: 173,417, Level: 100
Activity: 4.3%
 
Sea Six's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NW FL
Posts: 50,567
Thanks: 10,132
Thanked 13,004 Times in 7,316 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $602908
Default

And yet, it happened in New Orleans in the aftermath of Katrina.

Don't think these things couldn't happen. They can, do, and probably will in the future.
Sea Six is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sea Six For This Useful Post:
Old 02-19-2013, 7:55pm   #5
69camfrk
Barn Stall Owner #6969
NCM Supporter '11, '12,'17,'20
Points: 69,093, Level: 100
Activity: 8.6%
 
69camfrk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Somewhere in GA
Posts: 25,087
Thanks: 11,242
Thanked 11,493 Times in 5,018 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $1071547
Default

The police, National Guard, or whoever the guilty ones are that were rounding up legally owned firearms in the aftermath of Katrina should have been shot on sight and the ones that survived imprisoned for following unlawful orders. If there is anyone one out there that thinks for one damn minute that I would ever participate in rounding up LEGALLY owned firearms has another thing coming. It is not a lawful order and should not be construed as one. Unless I am completely caught off guard, anyone trying to take my firearms will get them......LEAD FIRST!!
69camfrk is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 69camfrk For This Useful Post:
Old 02-20-2013, 12:18am   #6
ft laud mike
A Real Barner
Points: 15,992, Level: 87
Activity: 9.4%
 
ft laud mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,976
Thanks: 5,552
Thanked 656 Times in 362 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $934310
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lander View Post
This was the exact point I made to several here where I work when they said "what are you going to do with the guns you have up against the army?". We just need to progress up the ladder of available resources, that's all. We don't have to have everything on hand...we just need to have the ability to go get it.

Police forces may initially try to stop those attempting to regain this country, but eventually even they would stop or be overwhelmed.
They can keep trying to take away our guns, but they forget one major thing....we have guns!
Most people I work with would not be taking peoples lawfully owned weapons
ft laud mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 7:45am   #7
Sea Six
Barn Stall Owner #16A
Barn Stall Owner #16B

NCM Supporter '11,'13
Bantayan Kids '13
Points: 173,417, Level: 100
Activity: 4.3%
 
Sea Six's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NW FL
Posts: 50,567
Thanks: 10,132
Thanked 13,004 Times in 7,316 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $602908
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ft laud mike View Post
Most people I work with would not be taking peoples lawfully owned weapons
And as you have indicated, some will.
Sea Six is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 7:58am   #8
lander
A Real Barner
Points: 17,159, Level: 90
Activity: 13.1%
 
lander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,113
Thanks: 745
Thanked 1,530 Times in 799 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $402921
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TxAg View Post

There's one factor which some might not have thought of: Support from other country/countries. Put those in with a totalitarian gov't and things might not be so easy. Sure you could take out some gov't military positions in the homeland. But now you have to rally what's left of a broken military against one or more other military powers.

Things won't turn out so well I would suspect.
I agree. I think we should pre-emptively strike Canada now, while they're not suspecting it.


lander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 12:16am   #9
ft laud mike
A Real Barner
Points: 15,992, Level: 87
Activity: 9.4%
 
ft laud mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,976
Thanks: 5,552
Thanked 656 Times in 362 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $934310
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Six View Post
And as you have indicated, some will.
Same as any other group, military included
ft laud mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 7:07am   #10
RedLS1GTO
C4 Mod
Barn Raising II,III
Points: 58,720, Level: 100
Activity: 87.8%
 
RedLS1GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cincinnati, OH ....ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑBE....
Posts: 13,732
Thanks: 1,298
Thanked 7,705 Times in 3,420 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $19752494
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ft laud mike View Post
Same as any other group, military included
I don't claim to speak for the entire military but from my experience that number would be very low and would only be a VERY small percentage of leadership.

Those who would "go along" with it would for the most part be those who are young, single, and don't have the life experiences to fully grasp the situation.
RedLS1GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 10:27am   #11
Joecooool
Barn Stall Owner #10
Points: 40,307, Level: 100
Activity: 0%
 
Joecooool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Florida Keys
Posts: 6,625
Thanks: 363
Thanked 1,765 Times in 758 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $8563902
Default

You people are insane.
Joecooool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 10:28am   #12
Loco Vette
Barn Stall Owner #54
Barn Raising II,III

Bantayan Kids '13,'17
Points: 39,523, Level: 100
Activity: 5.8%
 
Loco Vette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 15,675
Thanks: 9,677
Thanked 6,904 Times in 2,607 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $6027980
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
You people are insane.
You people would be expert on the subject.
Loco Vette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 11:13am   #13
RedLS1GTO
C4 Mod
Barn Raising II,III
Points: 58,720, Level: 100
Activity: 87.8%
 
RedLS1GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cincinnati, OH ....ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑBE....
Posts: 13,732
Thanks: 1,298
Thanked 7,705 Times in 3,420 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $19752494
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
You people are insane.
Meh. I've been called much worse by much better.
RedLS1GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 11:49am   #14
Loco Vette
Barn Stall Owner #54
Barn Raising II,III

Bantayan Kids '13,'17
Points: 39,523, Level: 100
Activity: 5.8%
 
Loco Vette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 15,675
Thanks: 9,677
Thanked 6,904 Times in 2,607 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $6027980
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
You people are insane.
You know, this deserves a more well thought out response than what I did a minute ago.

Up until the above entry, this thread consisted of a reasoned discussion about a hypothertical situation. It even said so in the title. People were asked if they thought the military or police would fire on American citizens or whether they would decline to do so.

Since this scenario (military and/or police firing upon American citizens) has happened before (Example, Kent State) there is absolutely nothing insane about asking whether or not it could happen again and under what circumstances.

The baselessly condescending "argument" that the discussion is without merit is the insane one.
Loco Vette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 1:17pm   #15
Joecooool
Barn Stall Owner #10
Points: 40,307, Level: 100
Activity: 0%
 
Joecooool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Florida Keys
Posts: 6,625
Thanks: 363
Thanked 1,765 Times in 758 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $8563902
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loco Vette View Post
You know, this deserves a more well thought out response than what I did a minute ago.

Up until the above entry, this thread consisted of a reasoned discussion about a hypothertical situation. It even said so in the title. People were asked if they thought the military or police would fire on American citizens or whether they would decline to do so.

Since this scenario (military and/or police firing upon American citizens) has happened before (Example, Kent State) there is absolutely nothing insane about asking whether or not it could happen again and under what circumstances.

The baselessly condescending "argument" that the discussion is without merit is the insane one.
The gun grabbing bullshit is insane.
Joecooool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 1:30pm   #16
6spdC6
A Real Barner
Points: 20,998, Level: 99
Activity: 29.1%
 
6spdC6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NorthernNY! (A little town on the shores of the Great Sacandaga Lake) in the peoples republic of NY
Posts: 10,023
Thanks: 5,345
Thanked 3,305 Times in 1,802 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $2115673
Default

[QUOTE]=Joecooool;891274]The gun grabbing bullshit is insane.[/QUOTE]



Your quite correct. Of course you know its your commie/libby/leftest democrats that do it.

Its about time you saw it the was it is! Thanks
__________________
.
.
.
Due to all his bullshit I now nominate NY Governor Andy (Safe Act) Cuomo to be called Governor Moonbeam (EAST)
6spdC6 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 6spdC6 For This Useful Post:
Old 02-21-2013, 1:46pm   #17
Loco Vette
Barn Stall Owner #54
Barn Raising II,III

Bantayan Kids '13,'17
Points: 39,523, Level: 100
Activity: 5.8%
 
Loco Vette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 15,675
Thanks: 9,677
Thanked 6,904 Times in 2,607 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $6027980
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
The gun grabbing bullshit is insane.
Based on what? The calam rationality of the discussions no the subject my the powers that be so far?
Loco Vette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 2:07pm   #18
Chris Fowler
Barn Stall Owner #6
Bantayan Kids '13,'14,'15,'17
Points: 18,636, Level: 94
Activity: 0%
 
Chris Fowler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 6,541
Thanks: 904
Thanked 1,484 Times in 828 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $437465
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
The gun grabbing bullshit is insane.
Still sticking with the line that "nobody" is proposing confiscation?
Chris Fowler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 2:18pm   #19
Joecooool
Barn Stall Owner #10
Points: 40,307, Level: 100
Activity: 0%
 
Joecooool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Florida Keys
Posts: 6,625
Thanks: 363
Thanked 1,765 Times in 758 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $8563902
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loco Vette View Post
Based on what? The calam rationality of the discussions no the subject my the powers that be so far?
Based on the fact that isn't what the president has ever - EVER - even suggested.
Joecooool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 2:25pm   #20
Loco Vette
Barn Stall Owner #54
Barn Raising II,III

Bantayan Kids '13,'17
Points: 39,523, Level: 100
Activity: 5.8%
 
Loco Vette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 15,675
Thanks: 9,677
Thanked 6,904 Times in 2,607 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $6027980
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
Based on the fact that isn't what the president has ever - EVER - even suggested.
Hitler didn't run with that as a campaign plank either. Just because he said he was going to run "the most transparent administration ever" doesn't amount to a hill of beans as to what he really does, as we have seen.

Just because you're all hot and bothered for him doesn't mean he doesn't have agendas.
Loco Vette is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

The Vette Barn > Off Topic/Babes/Other > Politics & Religion


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 1:30am.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 2009 - 2024 The Vette Barn


Support the Barn:
 
Download the Mobile App;
 
Follow us on Facebook:

Become a Stall Owner

 

Apple iOS App        Google Android App

 

Visit our Facebook page