Zimmerman's Bloody Head

[The_Dude]

Originally Posted by Stangkiller

If the kid was walking behind buildings and wandering around the neighborhood in suspicious places? Sure he did, I'm under the impression this isn't the first time he's called the cops and they show up after the perp is long gone.

I know it's easy to be an armchair quarterback and second guess, but this is where I think he went to far. Sure, follow him around until the cops arrive, but I can't see any reason to confront him.

[MrPeabody]

Originally Posted by The_Dude

I know it's easy to be an armchair quarterback and second guess, but this is where I think he went to far. Sure, follow him around until the cops arrive, but I can't see any reason to confront him.

But there are those who say the kid confronted Zimmerman.

[The_Dude]

Originally Posted by MrPeabody

But there are those who say the kid confronted Zimmerman.

If he hadn't gotten out of his car, he wouldn't have been confronted. I'm sure he has lots of regrets now. I'll be very surprised if he is convicted though. Making bad decisions isn't a crime.

[MrPeabody]

Originally Posted by The_Dude

If he hadn't gotten out of his car, he wouldn't have been confronted. I'm sure he has lots of regrets now. I'll be very surprised if he is convicted though. Making bad decisions isn't a crime.

I agree. I haven't posted much on this case because I still feel like I don't know enough facts. The trial will be interesting, if there ever is one.

I will say two things:

1. If I was in the position it looks like Zimmerman was in, and I was armed, I would have done the same thing he did.

2. I would like to think I would have avoided putting myself in that position.

[NB2K]

The SP lost all credibility with me when she started issuing all those BS press releases about when she was going to issue a press release.
Then, to have the actual press conference after business hours and to time it for the evening news is grandstanding at it's finest.

Further, 2nd degree won't stick. He can be found not guilty of this and still face a civil suit, which he will lose. I don't know that SYG comes into play here.

I'm not ready to hold Zimmerman blameless here b/c I think as a CCW holder he's supposed to know better.

Plus, why does anyone think Martin was going to burglarize a house?

[Stangkiller]

Originally Posted by NB2K

The SP lost all credibility with me when she started issuing all those BS press releases about when she was going to issue a press release.
Then, to have the actual press conference after business hours and to time it for the evening news is grandstanding at it's finest.

Further, 2nd degree won't stick. He can be found not guilty of this and still face a civil suit, which he will lose. I don't know that SYG comes into play here.

I'm not ready to hold Zimmerman blameless here b/c I think as a CCW holder he's supposed to know better.

Plus, why does anyone think Martin was going to burglarize a house?

If he's found not guilty, the means it was in self defense, this makes him immune from the civil lawsuits.

His HOA may be liable though, well see how greedy Trayvons racist parents really are.

[NB2K]

Originally Posted by Stangkiller

If he's found not guilty, the means it was in self defense, this makes him immune from the civil lawsuits.

His HOA may be liable though, well see how greedy Trayvons racist parents really are.

AOK, thanks.

I didn't know if just being found not guilty (unless under the SYG) would spare him from a civil suit.

He may luck out then, such as it is.

And yes, they will file that suit in a heartbeat.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Stangkiller

If he's found not guilty, the means it was in self defense, this makes him immune from the civil lawsuits.

Not exactly (at least how I understand it)

If charges are brought (as they have been), the defense is entitled to a pre-trial evidentiary hearing on the issue. The judge decides whether the individual is entitled to immunity. The burden at that hearing is on the defense to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that the person was entitled to use the force. If the judge finds the defendant is immune because the force was justifiable, the court can dismiss the charges.

The only way he is immune from the civil charges is if the judge finds the "Stand Your Ground" law applies and the case is dismissed BEFORE trial. If there is criminal trial, the family can sue in civil court regardless of whether Zimmerman wins or loses.

[mrvette]

Seems like the kid dodged down a back alley way, between/behind rows of townhouses....so was off the roads, and that is why Zim got out of his car, to follow him, keep track and make calls in about the kid's location....

so the kid probably disappears and sneaks up behind Zim....my best guess anyway....Zim try to retreat? maybe, but gets sucker punched....rest is history....

[NB2K]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Not exactly (at least how I understand it)



The only way he is immune from the civil charges is if the judge finds the "Stand Your Ground" law applies and the case is dismissed BEFORE trial. If there is criminal trial, the family can sue in civil court regardless of whether Zimmerman wins or loses.

Thanks, that was my impression as well.

I initially thought he could be sued no matter what, but Stangkiller correctly pointed out that if SYG applied, per FL law, he would be immune to civil suits.

So clearly, between Stangkiller and myself, we would make a piss-poor attorney.

[mrvette]

Originally Posted by NB2K

Thanks, that was my impression as well.

I initially thought he could be sued no matter what, but Stangkiller correctly pointed out that if SYG applied, per FL law, he would be immune to civil suits.

So clearly, between Stangkiller and myself, we would make a piss-poor attorney.

Believe me, from personal experience I know more than anyone on this forum about Florida civil law.....Zim can NOT be successfully sued/collected upon....

period, end of conversation.....I know more.....

[Stangkiller]

Originally Posted by NB2K

Thanks, that was my impression as well.

I initially thought he could be sued no matter what, but Stangkiller correctly pointed out that if SYG applied, per FL law, he would be immune to civil suits.

So clearly, between Stangkiller and myself, we would make a piss-poor attorney.

I just have such a hard time believing something as valuable as the immunity towards civil lawsuits can be thwarted by a single person (prosecutor and judge) rather than a jury of his peers.

[NB2K]

Zimm's cell, two weeks ago...

Me: Look man, it's your lucky day. Me and 'Killer here are gonna take your case, no el chargo...
Zimm: WTF?
Stangkiller: Don't worry, dude. I used to live in Florida and watched a bunch of local newscasts so I'm definitely up on the loca constabulary (throws in legal-sounding word for good measure).
Me: I kinda think you're hosed, but I got an "A" in Business Law, so it's all good.

Zimm: starts tying his sheets together to form a noose...

[Stangkiller]

Originally Posted by Stangkiller

Honestly, I think charges should be filed against the "Special Prosecutor" for abusing her power, this should be a clear cut case.

In the Press release the Prosecutor had, she said before beginning her investigation she prayed with the Perps (treyvons) family. That right here is a independence issue, and she should have recused herself from the investigation.

The victim is Zimmerman in all of this.

Looks like i'm not the only one who thinks this way:
Dershowitz: Prosecutor in Trayvon Martin case overreached with murder charge | Fox News

egal legend Alan Dershowitz blasted the special prosecutor in the Trayvon Martin case, accusing her of hiding evidence favorable to defendant George Zimmerman and committing perjury.

“If I were this prosecutor, I’d be hiring a lawyer at this point,” Dershowitz said of Angela Cory, the Florida state attorney and special prosecutor who Gov. Rick Scott appointed to handle the case.

Dershowitz leveled his bombshell charges in an interview Wednesday with Fox News' Megyn Kelly. The Harvard law professor, noted for winning an acquittal of Claus Von Bulow in the case that inspired the film “Reversal of Fortune,” said Cory overreached by charging Zimmerman with second-degree murder. And he said the affidavit she filed in support of the charges was illegal because it did not include evidence favorable to Zimmerman.

Zimmerman, 28, is a neighborhood watch captain who admits shooting the unarmed 17-year-old Martin on Feb. 26 after a confrontation in the gated community where he lives, but Zimmerman claims he acted in self-defense.

ABC News recently aired a photo purportedly taken minutes after the shooting that shows a bloody wound on the back of Zimmerman’s head. That photo appears to support Zimmerman’s contention that he was being beaten by the teen when he shot him.

But Cory made no mention of Zimmerman’s wounds or photos that might substantiate them when announcing the charge on April 11. Dershowitz said she was obligated to include any and all pertinent evidence.

“If she in fact knew about ABC News’ pictures of the bloody head of Zimmerman and failed to include that in the affidavit, this affidavit is not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth,” Dershowitz said. “It’s a perjurious affidavit.”

Even worse, Dershowitz warned that by overcharging Zimmerman, Cory may have planted the seed for riots if he is acquitted, as Dershowitz predicted will happen.

“If there are riots, it will be the prosecutor’s fault because she overcharged, raised expectations,” Dershowitz said. “This prosecutor not only may have suborned perjury, she may be responsible, if there are going to be riots here, for raising expectations to unreasonable levels.”

He said it is quite possible Zimmerman was guilty of a lesser charge, but the affidavit does not support a second-degree murder charge.

“There’s nothing in this affidavit that suggests second-degree murder. The elements of second-degree murder aren’t here."

Dershowitz is not the first legal expert to question the second-degree murder charge. The Florida statute requires proof that the defendant acted in a manner that was “evincing a depraved mind.” Prominent Miami criminal defense attorney John Priovolos told The Associated Press the charge was a “huge overreach” and said Corey will be hard-pressed to show Zimmerman had the “ill will, spite, malice or hatred” needed to prove a “depraved mind.”

If convicted of the second-degree charge, Zimmerman could face a maximum sentence of life in prison. Cory could still add charges, and a jury could eventually convict him of a “lesser included” charge, such as reckless manslaughter.

When announcing the charge, Cory expressed confidence in her team’s case.

"We have to have a reasonable certainty of conviction before filing charges," Cory said.

But Dershowitz said Cory is the one who should be facing charges, arguing that her prosecution of the case has already taken a political turn.

“She was appointed to get Zimmerman,” Dershowitz said.

Read more: Dershowitz: Prosecutor in Trayvon Martin case overreached with murder charge | Fox News

[NB2K]

'Killer, I was gonna poat that same article.

Maybe we could get Zimm acquitted.

It sucks that the jury can return a lesser charge, though.