Idiot neighbor. Breeder = puppy mill

[SnikPlosskin]

One thing that always pisses me off is people who think all breeders are commercially driven puppy factories. My wife was sharing our challenges with Ranger with one such neighbor who instantly jumped on her high horse about how the breeder was somehow suspect and she only gets dogs via shelters.

Keep in mind, this breeder has a kennel facility that likely cost more than my house that houses about a dozen dogs max. Even with sale prices around $5k for top puppies, it's a money losing venture. The idea is quality over quantity. These guys obsess over the lines and genes of the dogs and love their animals.

Puppy mills, on the other hand are quantity over quality operations that have the animals in squalid conditions for sale to wholesalers. it's all about profit for them and could care less about the dogs.

It's two completely different things. I buy from credentialed breeders and with the exception of Ranger, we end up with very strong, healthy, predictable animals. I buy for temperament first and physical characteristics second. These are inherited traits that can be predicted in carefully bred lines.

With shelter animals, you have zero predicability (just like puppy mills). It's like adopting a kid with no medical history. The kid may be great, but you have no idea what you face.

I also don't buy from pet stores. (where do you think all those puppy mill dogs end up?).

Serious GSD breeders don't just make pretty dogs. They also breed for intelligence and temperament. I understand that exclusive line breeding does cause genetic issues, but the good breeders mix it up enough to minimize it.

I appreciate those who adopt from shelters and I know you can get a great dog that way. But I'm not that interested in just getting a "dog".

I'm interested in getting a German Shepherd that lives up to the standard of the animal as it was designed.

Rant over.

[DAB]

We love our idiot shelter doggie.

[SnikPlosskin]

Originally Posted by DAB

We love our idiot shelter doggie.

Not bashing shelter doggies. Bashing morons.

Snake loves all puppies.

Edit: that's a good looking sweet puppy right there.

[DAB]

I know.

She's a sweetie. Leah makes sure I get outside a few times a day.

You have dogs for other reasons.

[Aerovette]

There are many purebred dogs I absolutely love, but my mistrust of the bad breeders and the inability to afford the good ones, leaves me loving my mixed breed dogs all that much more.

[bsmith]

Sadly, I'd bet that the vast majority of breeders are puppy mills.

She didn't know you had a good one...big deal.

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

One of my biggest pet peeves is those people who think they're somehow morally superior because they've rescued a dog from a kennel, rather than buying from a breeder. Some people don't care about pedigrees, lines, and everything that goes into a responsible breeding. They SHOULD, but they don't.

Here's the deal; I don't give a fuk WHERE you got Rover from. What I DO give a fuk about is that you live up to your commitment of OWNING a dog.

Sadly, I'd bet that the vast majority of breeders are puppy mills.

No way to know. I know a TON of breeders and NONE of them are puppy mills. But we're not in the business of selling dogs. We're in the business of responsible breeding. And it's an expensive business.

[SnikPlosskin]

Originally Posted by DAB

I know.

She's a sweetie. Leah makes sure I get outside a few times a day.

You have dogs for other reasons.

Nah, my reasons are the same. I just have had a life long love of GSDs. I've never owned any other breed. I'm sort of obsessed with them.

A huge part is their sweetness. I love how they look and they amaze me with how adaptable and trainable they are. There is something about their eyes and those ears.

But it doesn't diminish my appreciation for other dogs. Except the tiny ones. Those are gay.

[...Whitepower...]

I adopted my Am Staff/Pit from a rescue group. She was a great dog. I am an advocate of shelters and have dontated hundreds, volunteered many hours, and adopted every single pet i have owned(2 dogs and 2 cats).

That being said, i had to spend about $3500 on both rear ACL's (luxating patella's) to get them repaired. Had i gotten a dog from a reputable breeder the assumption is that i would have probably paid a third of that and gotten a dog who wouldn't have had those issues.. At least that is the assumption.

Makes you wonder..

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by Thomas

One of my biggest pet peeves is those people who think they're somehow morally superior because they've rescued a dog from a kennel, rather than buying from a breeder. Some people don't care about pedigrees, lines, and everything that goes into a responsible breeding. They SHOULD, but they don't.

Here's the deal; I don't give a fuk WHERE you got Rover from. What I DO give a fuk about is that you live up to your commitment of OWNING a dog.


No way to know. I know a TON of breeders and NONE of them are puppy mills. But we're not in the business of selling dogs. We're in the business of responsible breeding. And it's an expensive business.

I, on the other hand, feel that someone that rescues a dog from death, should feel special.

Anyone can buy a dog, a special person saves a dog.

[SnikPlosskin]

Originally Posted by bsmith

Sadly, I'd bet that the vast majority of breeders are puppy mills.

She didn't know you had a good one...big deal.

I'm not sure about that. I see "breeder" and "puppy mill" as two very different things.

Most states have laws regarding puppy mills. Legitimate breeders have a lot of customers and do shows. You can look into them and see if they are qualified. You also can see by the quality and conditions of the facilities. That's why people should not buy from resellers.

When we buy a dog, we do a lot of research on the breeder and the lines/pedigrees. We also don't jut buymfrommany breeders. We've known our group of breeders for years and we only located them through the German Shepherd Dog Club of America.

Originally Posted by Thomas

One of my biggest pet peeves is those people who think they're somehow morally superior because they've rescued a dog from a kennel, rather than buying from a breeder. Some people don't care about pedigrees, lines, and everything that goes into a responsible breeding. They SHOULD, but they don't.

Here's the deal; I don't give a fuk WHERE you got Rover from. What I DO give a fuk about is that you live up to your commitment of OWNING a dog.

No way to know. I know a TON of breeders and NONE of them are puppy mills. But we're not in the business of selling dogs. We're in the business of responsible breeding. And it's an expensive business.

Ding ding.

[...Whitepower...]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Here's the deal; I don't give a fuk WHERE you got Rover from. What I DO give a fuk about is that you live up to your commitment of OWNING a dog.

[JRD77VET]

Originally Posted by aerovette

There are many purebred dogs I absolutely love, but my mistrust of the bad breeders and the inability to afford the good ones, leaves me loving my mixed breed dogs all that much more.

After we lost Mochi , we did a lot of research on Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs. We even went to the Westminster Kennel Club show in NY to talk with breeders to see who's good and what to look for.

We had complete confidence when we decided on the Bartons for our Swissy. They do two litter from a female before she's retired. They are also bringing in Swissies from Europe to help diversify the blood line. ( GSMD aren't really popular here in the US, they weren't formally recognized until 1907 in Europe )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Swiss_Mountain_Dog

[SnikPlosskin]

Originally Posted by ...Whitepower...

I adopted my Am Staff/Pit from a rescue group. She was a great dog. I am an advocate of shelters and have dontated hundreds, volunteered many hours, and adopted every single pet i have owned(2 dogs and 2 cats).

That being said, i had to spend about $3500 on both rear ACL's (luxating patella's) to get them repaired. Had i gotten a dog from a reputable breeder the assumption is that i would have probably paid a third of that and gotten a dog who wouldn't have had those issues.. At least that is the assumption.

Makes you wonder..

Puppies we buy are screened for disease and certified for hip displasia (with X-rays). They are also guaranteed for common breed problems. They come with certificates detailing all their shots, worming, etc. Breeders put hundreds of dollars into each puppy. They also feed them high end food and keep them until they are 11-12 weeks old.

We also meet the sire and dame.

Keep in mind, I don't buy the high end show dogs. I buy the rejects - the ones that don't fit the standard. Many serious breeders "cull" these dogs. So I actually am rescuing them. They cost $300-$600 usually. Usually the big issue is the coat is too long.

[JRD77VET]

Originally Posted by aerovette

I, on the other hand, feel that some that rescues a dog from death, should feel special.

Anyone can buy a dog, a special person saves a dog.

A special person treats and cares for any animal they own whether rescued or purchased from a breeder.

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

Originally Posted by aerovette

I, on the other hand, feel that some that rescues a dog from death, should feel special.

Anyone can buy a dog, a special person saves a dog.

It's worth mentioning here, that many breeders do some rescue. Including us.

[DAB]

We're pretty sure Leah is mostly Jindo. Not a common breed.

[...Whitepower...]

Originally Posted by Thomas

It's worth mentioning here, that many breeders do some rescue. Including us.

Sidebar..

What percentage of Dalmatians have liver colored spots vs black?

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

Originally Posted by ...Whitepower...

Sidebar..

What percentage of Dalmatians have liver colored spots vs black?

Roughly 20-25% liver. We've had two here. Black is always black, but liver comes in several different shades. Some are a chocolate color and some are similar to Doberman reds.

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by JRD77VET

A special person treats and cares for any animal they own whether rescued or purchased from a breeder.

I was operating from the assumption that treatment after acquisition was good and equal. Not relevant to my point.

I followed a thread at the other place regarding a dog that was healthy, but dumped because they didn't realize it was going to be such a large dog. If you read the thread, you will see that some special people made a great rescue happen. The OP could have just gone and bought a dog. The point I was making is that a dog at a decent breeder is a) not in trouble and b) not living on borrowed time.

Given that all other aspects are equal, I have a special appreciation for those that rescue dogs that are about to be put down through no fault of their own.

Good on you that you rescue Thomas.