Obama care hits home

[69camfrk]

Originally Posted by Torqaholic

WTF because nobody is fighting back. They've declared war on the good people of this nation and nobody who is in a position to do anything about it cares because "it's always the other guy"... Until it's not.

Fight back. They want to cram shit down our throats? We need to cram it up their ass. Deprive the beast. Starve it out into the open. Only then can it be killed.

The problem there is that there are enough people on the dole, that they can win any election they want. Between the leeches and the illegals that are allowed to vote, us working people don't have a chance. It is Socialism pure and simple and we all know how that evolves. Not enough Americans are on the same page to do anything about it. Pure apathy and then pure hell to pay.

[ConstantChange]

Originally Posted by C5SilverBullet

That's their bull shit excuse because they want to cut their top wage earners. Small businesses are NOT required to provide insurance.

Yes and No.

One of my good friends works for a $50+ million business his dad started. They have under 50 employees since most of their people are contractors in the field.

Since the business started 10+ years ago, the company has paid 100% healthcare for their employees and their entire family. In doing this, they get great employees that stay with the company. If they continued to do this, it would cost them an additional $1+ million dollars with the new rates. They decided to continue paying 100% healthcare at a lower quality plan which will only cost them several hundred thousand a year in additional expense.

Are they required to provide insurance to their employees? No.
Do they need to provide insurance in order to retain their employees? Yes.

[Obama]"Let me be clear..."[/Obama], the owner is going to feel a little pain from all this, but you can bet your ass 99% of it is being passed on to the employees and the general public. No more free breakfast, no more free drinks in the break room, no more bonuses for 90% of the employees, no more large charity contributions, etc...

[Craig]

Originally Posted by C5SilverBullet

They fired the 3 top wage earners, this is about finding an excuse to dump high salaries.

They could have converted employees to part time, if they were serious about saving jobs.

If they provide insurance, and their rates just went up (and why would that be..?), they would have to fund that some how. And reality is, those guys would be the most expensive to insure. So, if the government hadn't stepped in to "help" every one, these guys would still have a job.

[Cybercowboy]

Originally Posted by 69camfrk

A work colleague of my wife just found out that her husband who has worked for the same small company for 25 years will be laid off by April. The company announced that due to the ACA that they had to cut back, so the 3 senior employees are getting the axe. Our country is being disposed of one person at a time. Just WTF?

Just tell him what Nancy Pelosi's answer to such things are.

"Embrace the suck." Just tell him that, I'm sure it will make him feel better. She just giggles.

Pelosi to Dems: 'Embrace the Suck' - YouTube

[Cybercowboy]

Oh, and this is just the teeny tip of the Obamafail iceberg. Wait until next November. Tens of millions will be thrown into utter turmoil.

[GS Ragtop]

Originally Posted by Cybercowboy

Oh, and this is just the teeny tip of the Obamafail iceberg. Wait until next November. Tens of millions will be thrown into utter turmoil.

Of course, that won't happen until *after* the election. Unbelievable they slipped that one through...

[Cybercowboy]

Originally Posted by C5SilverBullet

They fired the 3 top wage earners, this is about finding an excuse to dump high salaries.

They could have converted employees to part time, if they were serious about saving jobs.

You've defended Obamacare for quite awhile now. It's OK, you don't have to anymore.

It's the Law of the Land.

[Cybercowboy]

Originally Posted by GS Ragtop

Of course, that won't happen until *after* the election. Unbelievable they slipped that one through...

Delayed it a month but that's not going to help the democrats. Unless something major happens it's going to be a bloodbath in November.

[ZipZap]

Workers over 40 are a protected class by law. If the company actually targeted 3 employees in the protected group, they don't have a very good understanding of the law, or of the risk they now face.

If it was me, I would now thank them in court for providing me with an early retirement and enough cash to pay my own health care for a very long time.

And I agree that blaming it on ACA is a smokescreen.

[Cybercowboy]

"if they were serious about saving jobs..."

Bwahahahahahaha. A business isn't in business to save jobs. It's in business to make money, and any "job saving" that happens is purely a coincidence to that basic fact. Obamacare has all sorts of disincentives for businesses to continue providing healthcare to their employees. It has all sorts of incentives to cut the number of employees to below 50. It has zero incentives for businesses to grow.

Embrace the suck.

[Craig]

Originally Posted by Cybercowboy

Embrace the suck.

My new catch-phrase for all things liberal.

[Torqaholic]

Originally Posted by 69camfrk

The problem there is that there are enough people on the dole, that they can win any election they want...

Can't get blood from a rock. I'm talking about a massive nationwide strike of everyone who pays payroll taxes. Boycott generating income. If the people on the dole don't have to do it why should others be forced to do it for them?

Current wage earners are in a better position to survive that. They who want to live off money taken from others can not eat votes, they will perish.

It's part of the reason I am retiring next month, years earlier than planned. They wanted a war against my wallet? They got it!

[VatorMan]

Originally Posted by C5SilverBullet

That's their bull shit excuse because they want to cut their top wage earners. Small businesses are NOT required to provide insurance.

And Where the F do these "credit" dollars come from ? Air, Magic ?. Or borrow more from China ?

[C5SilverBullet]

Originally Posted by VatorMan

And Where the F do these "credit" dollars come from ? Air, Magic ?. Or borrow more from China ?

I didn't say the credits were a good thing, I said small businesses are not required to have insurance.

[DAB]

Originally Posted by Torqaholic

Can't get blood from a rock. I'm talking about a massive nationwide strike of everyone who pays payroll taxes. Boycott generating income. If the people on the dole don't have to do it why should others be forced to do it for them?

Current wage earners are in a better position to survive that. They who want to live off money taken from others can not eat votes, they will perish.

It's part of the reason I am retiring next month, years earlier than planned. They wanted a war against my wallet? They got it!

i have noticed that by carefully managing things, we have the same standard of living as when i was working full time and making 90k+, as we do now in retirement. but our tax bill has gone way, way down. if you spend savings, there is very little tax generated on withdrawing your own money. and no FICA tax either. and if you stay in the 15% bracket, capital gains are taxed at 0%. easiest money you will earn is doing some math.

[NEED-A-VETTE]

Originally Posted by ConstantChange

Yes and No.

One of my good friends works for a $50+ million business his dad started. They have under 50 employees since most of their people are contractors in the field.

Since the business started 10+ years ago, the company has paid 100% healthcare for their employees and their entire family. In doing this, they get great employees that stay with the company. If they continued to do this, it would cost them an additional $1+ million dollars with the new rates. They decided to continue paying 100% healthcare at a lower quality plan which will only cost them several hundred thousand a year in additional expense.

Are they required to provide insurance to their employees? No.
Do they need to provide insurance in order to retain their employees? Yes.

[Obama]"Let me be clear..."[/Obama], the owner is going to feel a little pain from all this, but you can bet your ass 99% of it is being passed on to the employees and the general public. No more free breakfast, no more free drinks in the break room, no more bonuses for 90% of the employees, no more large charity contributions, etc...

Many employers are cost shifting healthcare benefits to the employees. While he is still paying 100% of the premiums, he is still cost shifting. He's just doing it on the backend, rather than up front in the form of premiums.

I'd be curious as to a benefits comparison from the old policy to the new one. The employees will be subject to higher costs with the lesser plan through one of any number of things: higher copays, increased coinsurance, higher deductible, fewer covered services, higher formulary costs for RXs with fewer drugs covered, etc. Whether they pay it up front via paying part of the premiums, or pay for it later through lesser coverage...they average employee will be hit with higher costs. How drastic the costs will depend on the policy comparisons.

I'd be curious if the employees would actually have SAVED money if they had kept the same plan, yet agreed to pay for a portion of the premium. It would depend on this employer group's age, health and their utlilization of specific benefits, which the health plan can provide. (They can give general, overall info of benefits used, from the previous year(s), as long as it isn't PHI. That info can then be used to determine the best policies for his specific population of workers.)

Personally, I'd rather pay out of pocket (towards the actual premiums) to keep a plan that is richer in benefits. Reasonable costs, of course.

[NEED-A-VETTE]

Originally Posted by Cybercowboy

Oh, and this is just the teeny tip of the Obamafail iceberg. Wait until next November. Tens of millions will be thrown into utter turmoil.

That's putting it mildly, unfortunately.

[DAB]

Originally Posted by NEED-A-VETTE

That's putting it mildly, unfortunately.

Yup.

My individual policy premium went up 40%.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by DAB

Yup.

My individual policy premium went up 40%.

Yes, but now you have maternity coverage on your policy, so if you should become pregnant, don't worry....you're covered. Seems worth a 40% increase to me......

[Sea Six]

Originally Posted by DAB

My individual policy premium went up 40%.

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

Yes, but now you have maternity coverage on your policy, so if you should become pregnant, don't worry....you're covered. Seems worth a 40% increase to me......

Plus, you're paying for insurance for a whole shit-pile of folks who don't have insurance through no fault of your own.

Doesn't that make you feel better?