How to end school shootings...

[Dave]

Originally Posted by VatorMan

Sooooo..... this is what's needed ?

Wouldn't help if the gates need to be opened daily for an en mass entry and exit.

[Sea Six]

Originally Posted by Dave

We've had "liason officers" in school for years around here. Real cops. Stupidest idea ever. They're not there to protect against something like this, which is so remote as to be almost implausible statistically. They're there to make criminals out of kids for doing what kids have always done. Get in a fight? Better turn that over to the police for a look-see at an assault charge.

Dave, the reason sro's are in the schools has nothing to do with what you spelled out, although I wholeheartedly agree that is the precise unintended consequence that has come to be.

When teachers and principals were no longer allowed to discipline kids to include paddling, the teachers lost all control over the students. And the students knew it. They began doing things that my generation X would never have dreamed of doing. Taking back to authority, cursing at them, flat out refusing to behave, and much worse.

They were left with no choice but to resort to having Leo's in the schools to do the job.

And of course if a crime is committed, and yes a schoolyard scuffle is not exempted by the statutes for assault/battery, there will be criminal charges when it is passed on to the cop.

I'm not saying this is how it should be.

I'm explaining why it is what it is.

And I think we should go back to paddling the insolent fukkers right back into fearful submission, and let them serve as an example to those contemplating disruptive behavior.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Sea Six

Dave, the reason sro's are in the schools has nothing to do with what you spelled out, although I wholeheartedly agree that is the precise unintended consequence that has come to be.

When teachers and principals were no longer allowed to discipline kids to include paddling, the teachers lost all control over the students. And the students knew it. They began doing things that my generation X would never have dreamed of doing. Taking back to authority, cursing at them, flat out refusing to behave, and much worse.

They were left with no choice but to resort to having Leo's in the schools to do the job.

And of course if a crime is committed, and yes a schoolyard scuffle is not exempted by the statutes for assault/battery, there will be criminal charges when it is passed on to the cop.

I'm not saying this is how it should be.

I'm explaining why it is what it is.

And I think we should go back to paddling the insolent fukkers right back into fearful submission, and let them serve as an example to those contemplating disruptive behavior.

This. Exactly this. ^^^^^^^^

If you have an unruly kid, and you aren't permitted to even touch that kid, what are you supposed to do? I remember the case of a young girl disrupting class. The teacher, an assistant principal and the principal all attempted to get this disruptive girl out of the classroom, to no avail. Hard to do when the kid has no respect for authority and you can't touch the kid. So the police are called, and the cop ends up physically extracting the girl from her desk chair. ZOMG! Police brutality!

What are we supposed to do each time this happens? Just send all the kids home because one kid made the decision that, "nope, nobody will be learning anything today....I'm in charge here."

Police Officer Appears to Manhandle Student - YouTube

[mrvette]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

This. Exactly this. ^^^^^^^^

If you have an unruly kid, and you aren't permitted to even touch that kid, what are you supposed to do? I remember the case of a young girl disrupting class. The teacher, an assistant principal and the principal all attempted to get this disruptive girl out of the classroom, to no avail. Hard to do when the kid has no respect for authority and you can't touch the kid. So the police are called, and the cop ends up physically extracting the girl from her desk chair. ZOMG! Police brutality!

What are we supposed to do each time this happens? Just send all the kids home because one kid made the decision that, "nope, nobody will be learning anything today....I'm in charge here."

Police Officer Appears to Manhandle Student - YouTube

I"m on the cop's side.....hell with these little shits.....

[polarbear]

Florida Teacher Of The Year has the right idea, IMO.

https://www.facebook.com/kellygraley...56224702772958

Until we, as a country, are willing to get serious and talk about mental health issues, lack of available care for the mental health issues, lack of discipline in the home, horrendous lack of parental support when the schools are trying to control horrible behavior at school (oh no! Not MY KID. What did YOU do to cause my kid to react that way?), lack of moral values, and yes, I’ll say it-violent video games that take away all sensitivity to ANY compassion for others’ lives, as well as reality TV that makes it commonplace for people to constantly scream up in each others’ faces and not value any other person but themselves, we will have a gun problem in school. Our kids don’t understand the permanency of death anymore!!!

I grew up with guns. Everyone knows that. But you know what? My parents NEVER supported any bad behavior from me. I was terrified of doing something bad at school, as I would have not had a life until I corrected the problem and straightened my ass out. My parents invaded my life. They knew where I was ALL the time. They made me have a curfew. They made me wake them up when I got home. They made me respect their rules. They had full control of their house, and at any time could and would go through every inch of my bedroom, backpack, pockets, anything! Parents: it’s time to STEP UP! Be the parent that actually gives a crap! Be the annoying mom that pries and knows what your kid is doing. STOP being their friend. They have enough “friends” at school. Be their parent.

[DAB]

and how many of these kids ever said to the guy "hey, how you doing, care to join us for lunch? you know, i think you'd like the cross country team, lots of good people"

nah, just shun the weird ones, don't say a kind word, exclude them from gatherings, that's the way!

[OddBall]

Find out which school systems (nationally and internationally ) have the least amount of violence, and then find out why.

I guarantee that the "why" will involve more than one factor, and some of those factors may actually be hidden for PC purposes.

[Aerovette]

Political correctness will forever come before fixing the issue.

ANY solution aside from a weapons ban, will get shot down and ripped apart by liberals because it cannot be achieved without stepping on a few toes...or heads...whichever.

[Broken Wind]

Originally Posted by VatorMan

Sooooo..... this is what's needed ?

Close.

IF you want to stop this, you have to get serious about it. While parenting may be the answer, realistically, it’s not going to happen. Same with weapons bans.

Treat the school the same as an airport and call it a day.

No more shootings.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by DAB

and how many of these kids ever said to the guy "hey, how you doing, care to join us for lunch? you know, i think you'd like the cross country team, lots of good people"

nah, just shun the weird ones, don't say a kind word, exclude them from gatherings, that's the way!

Careful what you wish for.

Florida shooting suspect was on school rifle team that got NRA grant - Chicago Tribune

The troubled teen authorities say killed 17 people at a Florida high school excelled in an air-rifle marksmanship program supported by a grant from the National Rifle Association Foundation, part of a multimillion-dollar effort by the gun group to support youth shooting clubs and other programs.

Nikolas Cruz, 19, was wearing a maroon shirt with the logo from the Army Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps program at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School when he was arrested Wednesday shortly after the shooting. Former JROTC cadets told The Associated Press that Cruz was a member of the small varsity marksmanship team that trained together after class and traveled to other area schools to compete.

It was a close-knit group. One of the other cadets started calling Cruz "Wolf," and the nickname stuck.

"He was a very good shot," said Aaron Diener, 20, who gave Cruz a ride to shooting competitions when they were part of the same four-member team in 2016. "He had an AR-15 he talked about, and pistols he had shot. ... He would tell us, 'Oh, it was so fun to shoot this rifle' or 'It was so fun to shoot that.' It seemed almost therapeutic to him, the way he spoke about it."

The JROTC marksmanship program used air rifles special-made for target shooting, typically on indoor ranges at targets the size of a coin.

Records show that the Stoneman Douglas JROTC program received $10,827 in non-cash assistance from the NRA's fundraising and charitable arm in 2016, when Cruz was on the squad. The school's program publicly thanked the NRA Foundation on its Twitter feed.

A spokeswoman for the NRA declined to comment on Friday. The top officers of the foundation are all current or former executives of the NRA.

The more than 1,700 high school JROTC programs nationally also receive financial support from the U.S. military and are typically supervised by retired officers from the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines. The military collaborates with school systems on the training curriculum, which includes marching drills, athletic competitions and shooting teams.

Cadets wear military uniforms with ranks and insignias similar to those of the military branch with which they are affiliated.

Peter Mahmood, the retired Army major who supervises the JROTC program at Stoneman Douglas, did not respond to messages left by phone and at his home.

Authorities say Cruz, who was expelled last year for disciplinary reasons, walked into his former school with an AR-15 and opened fire. He is charged with 17 counts of murder.

The shooting team's equipment came in handy for some students during the chaos of the rampage.

Junior Colton Haab, a second lieutenant and platoon leader in the school's JROTC, told The Associated Press that he helped usher about 90 students into the room where cadets train with pellet rifles. Haab moved the Kevlar sheets used as a backdrop for target practice away from the wall and told everyone to hide behind them. As it was, the shooter never approached the ROTC rooms.

Haab said he sees nothing negative about the NRA's contribution to the JROTC program. In fact, he said, the equipment the group funded could have helped save the students' lives if the gunman had targeted them.

"So I think the NRA actually bonused us in a way," he said.

Former cadets say they were surprised the awkward teen they remember from a couple years ago now stands accused of slaughtering students and staff. But, in retrospect, there were signs of trouble.

Kyle Ramos, who was the executive officer of the JROTC battalion, said Cruz spoke about guns and knives incessantly and liked to wear military-style clothing to school. He also bragged about shooting animals for fun.

"He told me he would attack little animals with pellet guns and stuff, and I was a little weirded out by that," said Ramos, now 20. "Like squirrels and lizards and stuff."

Diener said Cruz sometimes missed target practice because he had detention. There was another time he remembers that Aaron Feis, a member of the school's security staff, came to get Cruz out of JROTC class because he was in some sort of trouble. Feis, who was also an assistant football coach at the school, is among those Cruz is charged with killing.

The NRA Foundation gave nearly $2.2 million to schools across 30 states in 2016, the most recent year for which its federal tax filings are publicly available. Of that amount, more than $400,000 was in cash grants, while nearly $1.8 million came as in-kind donations ranging from equipment for high school air rifle teams to gun safety programs for younger children.

Most of the schools that receive grants are in public districts.

Along with schools, the NRA Foundation also gives millions of dollars a year to local gun clubs, Boy Scout chapters, churches and agriculture programs. The NRA Foundation has provided more than $335 million in grants since 1990.

Broward County Public Schools, which includes Stoneman Douglas High, has received NRA donations to at least four other high schools, records, show. District officials did not respond to requests for comment Friday.

A total of 18 schools in Florida received NRA donations in 2016, more than any other state.

The rifle team at North Fort Myers High School in Florida received $37,000 in 2016, the largest donation overall. The district's JROTC program received $10,000 in cash and $27,000 in non-cash assistance two years earlier, according to tax records.

Rob Spicker, a district spokesman, said the grants support JROTC programs that otherwise receive a small amount of money from the U.S. Army. The district has used NRA grants to buy firing range equipment including safety glasses and Kevlar curtains. Spicker said none of the equipment advertises the NRA.

"If grant money is needed again to support a program that benefits 6,500 students, helps them focus on school, earn scholarships and plan for their future, then we will continue to apply for those types of grants," he said.

Some of the foundation's grants also went to elementary and middle schools. The NRA produces a firearm safety program for students through third grade, known for its "Eddie Eagle" mascot. The program teaches children not to touch guns and to run away from them to prevent accidents.

Arsu Noorali, a former JROTC cadet at Stoneman Douglas who participated in marksmanship training, said she hopes the program doesn't get a bad name because Cruz was in it.

"The program is about discipline, and family and love," said Noorali, 19. "You hang out with these people, getting up at 4 a.m., and going to competitions, and they become your family."

Cruz talked of wanting to join the Army after graduation and become an elite special forces soldier, a dream potentially derailed by his expulsion.

Noorali remembers talking to Cruz's mother about his behavioral problems.

"She told me, 'Look, he's not the best of kids, I really hope this program can change him,'" she recounted. "Because it does teach you a lot of discipline. It becomes fun after a while."

[OddBall]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

Careful what you wish for.

Florida shooting suspect was on school rifle team that got NRA grant - Chicago Tribune

Libs will beat that to death too.

Zero correlation between the two, but they'll beat it to death just the same.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by OddBall

Libs will beat that to death too.

Zero correlation between the two, but they'll beat it to death just the same.

It is embarrassing, just like when a US soldier does something bad. Any large organization is going to have at least a few misfits.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by OddBall

Find out which school systems (nationally and internationally ) have the least amount of violence, and then find out why.

I guarantee that the "why" will involve more than one factor, and some of those factors may actually be hidden for PC purposes.

How do you measure "violence" in schools that would be any soft of indicator for a shooting like this? Shootings are so rare as to be statistically insignificant. It's not like any one school has been the subject of multiple shootings.

[VatorMan]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

It is embarrassing, just like when a US soldier does something bad. Any large organization is going to have at least a few misfits.

Remember, it's was an Army veteran that blew up Oklahoma City.

[tjfontaine]

Originally Posted by lspencer534

If one Nation knows how to work properly around the threat of terrorism, it’s the Nation of Israel, which is beset on all sides by its enemies and is under threat 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

In 1974, Israel endured the Ma’alot Massacre in which Palestinian terrorists took 115 people hostage at Netiv Meir Elementary School. Twenty-two children and three others were killed and 68 injured. Israel now requires schools with 100 or more students to have a guard posted. The civilian police force handles the entire security system of all schools from kindergarten through college. The Ministry of Education funds shelters and fences, reinforces school buses, and hires and trains guards.

Guards don’t just stand around. They check everyone entering, and engage threats.

And yeah, they’ve got guns.The lawful purposes for carrying guns are very clear: protect school personnel and students, create a sense of security, deter the ill-intended, and provide self-defense.

Israel also trains their students. Instead of just hiding, or freezing in times of danger, students are taught proactive ways to make the gunman’s job more difficult. This includes using things found in the classroom to form a barricade around the door, taking opportune moments to get somewhere safe while the shooter can’t fire due to reloading or weapon malfunctions.

At this time here, many schools have fire drills despite the fact that serious, life-threatening fires are a very uncommon thing to see. Yet despite the rise in school shootings, there is no plan in place on how to deal with one should one start.

Right now, America is the deer-in-headlights. Gun control debates are a distraction and impractical, and criminals ignore laws anyway. Crazy people are obviously not being dealt with properly – students at Parkland even predicted this would happen.

The solution to limiting the destruction that occurs during school shootings, if not stopping it completely, is armed guards and student training. It’s worked for a nation with enemies living literally right next door, and it’ll work for the United States.

https://www.redstate.com/brandon_mor...ool-shootings/

Also note that it is very difficult to get a license and gun in Israel - they have strong background checks. And although in theory there is nothing in the law limiting those of Arab background in getting a gun, I bet they make it REAL hard for that to happen.

[DAB]

shoot back.

[OddBall]

Originally Posted by Dave

How do you measure "violence" in schools that would be any soft of indicator for a shooting like this? Shootings are so rare as to be statistically insignificant. It's not like any one school has been the subject of multiple shootings.

Good question.
A start, albeit a difficult one, would be to see how a violent actor has been thwarted. In a sense, measure what could have happened and didn't, to what has happened. Again, that's not so easy a measure to take, at least not accurately. And it's also open to subjectivity.

I would say that violence stems, in part, from culture. So that would be your best measure. I would imagine that places that are more prone to violence have taken measures to be better equipped to handle it in the way of prevention and response. Assuming of course that there is another culture in the same demographic that cares.