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Old 01-16-2020, 4:41pm   #21
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you miss the whole point. they fired themselves by not acting properly or doing their work correctly. You are just carrying the message.
Here's something to think about. i've very very picky about who I hire and always go over it with my full time employee. With the exception of two students, all have stayed on with the crew for 1+ years all the way to 5+. They've ALL gone on to get great jobs after they graduated that paid more than entry level because I make them work and get the minimum wage pay's worth out of them. My philosophy is those that put for the the effort and take care of the job will themselves be taken care of in kind and I tell them, "When it's time for you to graduate or if you apply for bigger better jobs, I won't hold you back, but i will be honest when called about a reference. My reference depends on you, but you better ask me for one first."

Basically, I take care of my own and I take pride in my student techs who've used this job to prove they are worth more than entry level and gotten the jobs. In my 7 years with the college and 5+ here in my current position, this kid and one other are the only two I won't allow to use me as a reference. God help them if they do because i will be brutally honest and that's as it should be. The other 15 still keep in touch and they are doing amazing!

So, I do take pride in how i run my shop and help teach the student techs, but if they don't work out then that's on them. i still don't like having to fire people because I do know how it effects them financially, but that's not my problem to worry about. that's their problem and I'm a bit too lenient. I give multiple chances to show effort and try to improve because of the nature of the student worker/tech program and jobs (state program by the way) unless the employees actions are so egregious they need to be fired and given an MP3 playerr with nothing but Iron Maiden on it.
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Old 01-16-2020, 4:51pm   #22
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Here's something to think about. i've very very picky about who I hire and always go over it with my full time employee. With the exception of two students, all have stayed on with the crew for 1+ years all the way to 5+. They've ALL gone on to get great jobs after they graduated that paid more than entry level because I make them work and get the minimum wage pay's worth out of them. My philosophy is those that put for the the effort and take care of the job will themselves be taken care of in kind and I tell them, "When it's time for you to graduate or if you apply for bigger better jobs, I won't hold you back, but i will be honest when called about a reference. My reference depends on you, but you better ask me for one first."

Basically, I take care of my own and I take pride in my student techs who've used this job to prove they are worth more than entry level and gotten the jobs. In my 7 years with the college and 5+ here in my current position, this kid and one other are the only two I won't allow to use me as a reference. God help them if they do because i will be brutally honest and that's as it should be. The other 15 still keep in touch and they are doing amazing!

So, I do take pride in how i run my shop and help teach the student techs, but if they don't work out then that's on them. i still don't like having to fire people because I do know how it effects them financially, but that's not my problem to worry about. that's their problem and I'm a bit too lenient. I give multiple chances to show effort and try to improve because of the nature of the student worker/tech program and jobs (state program by the way) unless the employees actions are so egregious they need to be fired and given an MP3 playerr with nothing but Iron Maiden on it.
If anyone uses you as a reference, refer that caller to the HR department where you work. Don't say anything.
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Old 01-16-2020, 4:58pm   #23
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If anyone uses you as a reference, refer that caller to the HR department where you work. Don't say anything.
sage.
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Old 01-16-2020, 5:05pm   #24
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you miss the whole point. they fired themselves by not acting properly or doing their work correctly. You are just carrying the message.
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Old 01-16-2020, 5:06pm   #25
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If anyone uses you as a reference, refer that caller to the HR department where you work. Don't say anything.
Just like chicks that want to go out with me. I usually have to decline unless I'm drunk because I don't purposely date women with bad taste
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Old 01-16-2020, 5:07pm   #26
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I did what i had to do without hesitation here. I gave the kid too many chances to fix what he was doing wrong up to this morning and the incident that happened was the red line in the sand. Unlike the Obidiot, my red line doesn't move.

I don't feel bad about firing him, but I still don't like having to fire anyone.
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Old 01-16-2020, 5:39pm   #27
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I lost consciousness at helluva.
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Old 01-16-2020, 6:06pm   #28
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downsizing or change in culture? doesn't sound like fired for poor performance.
A little of both. I worked for McGraw-Hill Education, and whenever the economy turned bad, our sales went down because folks would say "Does Johnny really need a new math book? I mean, 2 plus 2 is still 4." In the Obummer economy, sales plummeted for years, and wave after wave of downsizing happened. I survived that, but eventually, the parent company sold the Education division to Venture Capital, and my "position was eliminated". The buyer demanded that me and a bunch of other folks get cut loose before the sale, so that the parent paid our severance rather than the buyer.

It was what it was, and there was no changing it. My boss at the time, "Joe", got let go a month after I did basically because he was too old.

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I hire skilled building trades guys/union. sometimes they like to play games and know it will lead to them being laid off or fired. Its a completely different game than professional office types. They are grown men, but sometimes act like boys for any number of reasons. Feelings simply aren't part of the equation for most.
I've been in companies like that earlier in my career. Yeah, some guys think that because they have a union standing behind them, they can **** with the employer. Sometimes they win, sometimes they don't.

FWIW: I had lunch with Joe last week. Great guy.
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Old 01-16-2020, 6:28pm   #29
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As a head tech at a TV/appl. dealer, I was shop manager, and as such I was instrumental in getting only one guy fired in the decade I was head tech....asked the owner/boss to dump him for total incompetence.....

Then went to work for Intex, inc....Bethesda Md.....maker/inventor of walk through metal detectors....I was hired as field svc tech by the company owner Dr. Roy Ricci.....and Stan, and Another Roy, he was a retired Admiral....and he was head grim reaper.......got called to his office, almost no one walked out, when I got called, everyone on the 14th floor thought I was dead, but NO, I explained watt happened and Roy and I had a good laugh over it, he grinned and said get back to work......
The joint from production line to parts purchase the production manager, and QC and yes even the ENGINEERING dept was a damn mess when I went to work there, but the owner and the other ROY knew shit wasn't straight, and so hired a new head of engineering....over the mechanical, electronic, lab research, including the CHEM lab...... so after a couple weeks on the job, me being there maybe a total of 5 daze because of field service work trips.....he calls me into his office, and asks WTF is RONG here!!!

I told him my opinion, that the EE we had was a drunk and stone incompetent, could not design a damn transistor circuit.....Didn't know NPN from PNP, serious......so also the draftsman on the job site.....so a few daze later he fired a whole bunch and in came a GOOD young guy who I went to work with designing a whole new product line for the company....we/I had a blast doing it, it was FUN!!!! and so after that and industry respect for the products the boss/owner sold the company.....

out of the entire staff, me, M/E, EE and Chem E along with some minor secretarial folks stayed on......to do an entire different product line used for inspect jet aircraft engines for metal stresses on a FAA standard routine basis....our shit WORKED!!!!

I never forget walking in one Monday AM, and there was this ~3" stack of D size drawings to be gone over, spent some daze doing it, walked into the ME/s office and asked what sort of inspections on what was it all for, he laughed and said the parts will be coming in....about enough to fill 3 vans of boxes .......it was FUN!!!! me and the lead assembler from the old line got the job of doing the construction, I did the mechanical stuff, she did the mini electronics.....

it was funny how the head of engineering fired the QC guy, told him to write up a paper of everything he knew of the metal detectors from ground up, then upon reading and discussing it with him over man hours, announced he was fired......

Company moved across town, too much of a traffic BATTLE, so I left and back into the TV business for a year, holding down two shops, got into home improvements/remodeling......kitchens/baths, learned plumbing and electrical from the guys....learned the rest on my own just by watching various subs....not all that hard, really....I never had a fire a sub, just one employee....no biggie....yer fired!!!!

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Old 01-17-2020, 10:19am   #30
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Well, so far nothing has come of the scathing email to HR, but i did ask all of my former Student techs if they would send a brief letter stating what it was like working in my shop with this full time guy as their supervisor. I told them put in what you need to, be honest about it, and don't embellish anything. I DID NOT TELL THEM WHAT WAS HAPPENING YESTERDAY.

So far, as I suspected, out of all 13 replies I got, they say it was great environment and they wouldn't be in the jobs they have now if it wasn't for my full time employees supervision and the time he took to teach them the skill sets we have know in this job.

I'm not too worried about any fallout from the latter the kid I fired sent to HR since I have written testimony and witnesses who routinely deal with my team to back up my claims the fired kid was full of shit and was looking to blame somebody because he couldn't handle the job....and what he was tasked to do was so easy that even Koko or Adog could have probably done the job well with only me giving them a task and saying, "let me know when it's done correctly."
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Old 01-17-2020, 10:21am   #31
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Just like chicks that want to go out with me. I usually have to decline unless I'm drunk because I don't purposely date women with bad taste
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Old 01-17-2020, 10:23am   #32
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Well, so far nothing has come of the scathing email to HR, but i did ask all of my former Student techs if they would send a brief letter stating what it was like working in my shop with this full time guy as their supervisor. I told them put in what you need to, be honest about it, and don't embellish anything. So far, as I suspected, out of all 13 replies I got, they say it was great environment and they wouldn't be in the jobs they have now if it wasn't for my full time employees supervision and the time he took to teach them the skill sets we have know in this job.

I'm not too worried about any fallout from the latter the kid I fired sent to HR since I have written testimony and witnesses who routinely deal with my team to back up my claims the fired kid was full of shit and was looking to blame somebody because he couldn't handle the job....and what he was tasked to do was so easy that even Koko or Adog could have probably done the job well with only me giving them a task and saying, "let me know when it's done correctly."
Was this student tech named Hal, and did he come to work dressed like this? I had to fire him from My BBQ grill business.

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Old 01-17-2020, 10:48am   #33
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Was this student tech named Hal, and did he come to work dressed like this? I had to fire him from My BBQ grill business.

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I'd have been legally justified in killing anyone that showed up to work like that.
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Old 01-17-2020, 11:09am   #34
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Well, so far nothing has come of the scathing email to HR, but i did ask all of my former Student techs if they would send a brief letter stating what it was like working in my shop with this full time guy as their supervisor. I told them put in what you need to, be honest about it, and don't embellish anything. So far, as I suspected, out of all 13 replies I got, they say it was great environment and they wouldn't be in the jobs they have now if it wasn't for my full time employees supervision and the time he took to teach them the skill sets we have know in this job.

I'm not too worried about any fallout from the latter the kid I fired sent to HR since I have written testimony and witnesses who routinely deal with my team to back up my claims the fired kid was full of shit and was looking to blame somebody because he couldn't handle the job....and what he was tasked to do was so easy that even Koko or Adog could have probably done the job well with only me giving them a task and saying, "let me know when it's done correctly."
Glad to hear that, I'm sure things will blow over shortly.
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Old 01-17-2020, 11:23am   #35
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Glad to hear that, I'm sure things will blow over shortly.
That's what i'm hoping for, and fortunately, my reputation andd the shop's reputation is well known. The network engineering instructors and info systems management instructors all tell their students to apply for a student tech job with me and I have a list of about 20 to choose from. I'm very picky about requirements that need to be met, but I care more that somebody can learn the job learn to take the basics and do more than I do about somebody who already says they can do the job, they have their A+, blah blah blah. Those who show the potential to learn and put that knowledge to better use always excel and do great things when they graduate or get hired for a better full time job.
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Old 01-18-2020, 9:44am   #36
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I had one of my supervisors on a Performance Improvement Plan last year. He kept taking FMLA every time I went to sit down and go over the improvement plan with him. Finally in February we sat down and went over the plan to help him improve his supervisory skills. I gave him 90 days to get the plan going and improve.
Come Mid March I bring him in with HR and fire him. He had had not shown one sign of trying to improve.
I was walking on egg shells because he had seen the writing on the wall in December and filed a compliance line complaint saying I was bullying and harassing him. The whole investigation turned up no evidence of the complaint and in fact added evidence to his lack of supervisory skills.
I went on with the termination and he blurts out how he feels this is retaliation and he was filing a complaint with the compliance line. I was amazed they would even think of something like that.
Two weeks later I fired another supervisor for blatant violation of Lock Out Tag Out.
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Old 01-18-2020, 10:01am   #37
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My wife is an HR Director. ALL her stories about firing people are 'head shakers'. How some of these people function in society without supervision is remarkable.
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Old 01-18-2020, 10:05am   #38
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Was this student tech named Hal, and did he come to work dressed like this? I had to fire him from My BBQ grill business.

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Old 01-18-2020, 6:47pm   #39
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It got to the point at one place I worked we hired all entry level positions from a temp agency. We would take a temp in for 3 to 4 months and ,if they worked ot, we'd buy their contract from the agency.

Up front it looked like it would cost more but it cut costs becuase we'd fire 70% of new hires with in 2 months.
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Old 01-18-2020, 6:56pm   #40
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It got to the point at one place I worked we hired all entry level positions from a temp agency. We would take a temp in for 3 to 4 months and ,if they worked ot, we'd buy their contract from the agency.

Up front it looked like it would cost more but it cut costs becuase we'd fire 70% of new hires with in 2 months.
A lot of companies to contract to hire for all employees. 6 month contract, if you fit the corporate culture and can fit the mold, you're hired after 6 months.
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