Do You Renounce the Boy Scouts and All Their Evil Works? The Southern Baptists Do

[Bill]

..

Southern Baptists expected to address Scouting
Associated PressAssociated Press – 2 hrs 22 mins ago..

HOUSTON (AP) — The Southern Baptist Convention is expected to take a stand against the Boy Scouts of America's acceptance of gay members at the denomination's annual meeting in Houston this week.

Leaders of the nation's largest Protestant denomination had fought against the change and warned Scouting leaders that allowing gay members could mean Southern Baptist churches would no longer sponsor troops.

Resolutions for the annual meeting were to be presented Wednesday and many observers expect one of them to address the Boy Scouts' new policy in some way.

Because all Southern Baptist churches are independent, the denomination cannot force a church to drop ties with the Scouts. However, churches occasionally are kicked out of the convention for practices considered incompatible with Southern Baptist beliefs.

Former Southern Baptist President Bryant Wright recently announced that the church where he is pastor, Johnson Ferry Baptist Church in Marietta, Ga., would stop sponsoring a troop after 13 years. Wright explained in a video posted on the church's website that the problem with the new policy is not that it would allow gay Scouts, but that it would not allow Scout masters to counsel those Scouts to "live a life of sexual purity according to Scripture."

The new policy, Wright said, "condones homosexuality as being consistent with the Scout oath of duty to God and moral uprightness."

In all, about 70 percent of the 116,000 Scout units in the United States are sponsored by religious organizations. Many of those groups have decided to continue sponsoring troops. That includes the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which sponsors more Scout units than any other organization, serving about 430,000 boys.

The United Methodist Church is the second-largest sponsor serving about 363,000 boys. The denomination's National Director of Scouting Ministries, Larry Coppock, is sending a letter this week that advises leaders to continue sponsoring troops.

"There are disheartened and disappointed people on both sides of the membership issue, but it is time to move forward and continue to promote scouting as a youth ministry," he wrote.

On Tuesday, a delegate to the Southern Baptist Convention meeting made a motion asking the group's Executive Committee appoint a task force to look into Scouting alternatives. That motion was referred to a committee, but leaders could still offer a resolution on the issue Wednesday.

The Southern Baptist Convention already has a youth group for boys called Royal Ambassadors, and there could be a call to expand that program.

[DAB]

You don't need to join a big group you don't like to go camping and learn how to build a fire.

[8Up]

I dont think Churches should get involved in social clubs anyway. They exist for two different reasons, exclusive of each other. People tend to forget that.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by 454_71Stingray

I dont think Churches should get involved in social clubs anyway. They exist for two different reasons, exclusive of each other. People tend to forget that.

The Boy Scouts are more of a hybrid, and honoring God doesn't really seem like a superfluous add on, it seems like an intrinsic value of the organization based on it's location in the oath.

Scout Oath



The Scout Oath is one form of the code that boys must memorize and try to live up to: "On my honor I will do my best, To do my duty to God and my country, and to obey the Scout Law; To help other people at all times; To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight."



Read more: Boy Scout Code of Conduct | eHow Boy Scout Code of Conduct | eHow

[Joecooool]

Just another of the millions of examples of picking and choosing the parts of the bible one wants to believe in.

[DAB]

I made my promises to God, not some stuffed shirt with a hiking stick and a pocket full of badges.

Never joined the scouts.

[Joecooool]

Originally Posted by TxAg

And you pick none of it yet have a hard-on against those who do.

I was in a Red Lobster a few years ago on a Sunday afternoon and overheard the churchies behind me railing about gay people going to hell while shoveling shrimp down their pie hole.

[island14]

How was the shrimp?

[Knooger]

Originally Posted by island14

How was the shrimp?

Why are you bringing RED into this?

[8Up]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

The Boy Scouts are more of a hybrid, and honoring God doesn't really seem like a superfluous add on, it seems like an intrinsic value of the organization based on it's location in the oath.

Scout Oath



The Scout Oath is one form of the code that boys must memorize and try to live up to: "On my honor I will do my best, To do my duty to God and my country, and to obey the Scout Law; To help other people at all times; To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight."



Read more: Boy Scout Code of Conduct | eHow Boy Scout Code of Conduct | eHow

I dont disagree. But Baptists are a Christian group, God is not exclusively theirs. Ask a Jew.

[Sea Six]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

I was in a Red Lobster a few years ago on a Sunday afternoon and overheard the churchies behind me railing about gay people going to hell while shoveling shrimp down their pie hole.

What is the connection with the shrimp? Was it against their religion?

[Joecooool]

Originally Posted by Sea Six

What is the connection with the shrimp? Was it against their religion?

As much as being gay is.

9 ‘These you may eat of all that are in the water: whatever in the water has fins and scales, whether in the seas or in the rivers—that you may eat. 10 But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in the water, they are an abomination to you. 11 They shall be an abomination to you; you shall not eat their flesh, but you shall regard their carcasses as an abomination. 12 Whatever in the water does not have fins or scales—that shall be an abomination to you.

Leviticus 11:9-12 (New King James Version)

22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.

Leviticus 18:22 (New King James Version)

[Sea Six]

Oh.

[Hoog]

No shrimp?!? Well, that clinches it....

[Grey Ghost]

Originally Posted by Sea Six

What is the connection with the shrimp? Was it against their religion?

They were being baptized in cocktail sauce.

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

Originally Posted by Sea Six

Oh.

And that's that.

[Doug28450]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

As much as being gay is.

9 ‘These you may eat of all that are in the water: whatever in the water has fins and scales, whether in the seas or in the rivers—that you may eat. 10 But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in the water, they are an abomination to you. 11 They shall be an abomination to you; you shall not eat their flesh, but you shall regard their carcasses as an abomination. 12 Whatever in the water does not have fins or scales—that shall be an abomination to you.

Leviticus 11:9-12 (New King James Version)

22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.

Leviticus 18:22 (New King James Version)

Nice try, but it was a swing and a miss.

Are we to keep the Old Testament law

Are we to keep the Old Testament law?

The law was never given to the New Testament believer but the Old Testament believer. It was a standard they were to live by. It was given for the reason- to increase sin and show us that we are sinful.

The law is given to increase sin to show our sinfulness. Rom. 5:20: “Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound.” Gal 3:19: “What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made.”

In other words when Christ (the seed) was born there would be an and to the law.

Gal. 3:23-25: “But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor (to lead us) to Christ, that we may be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. " NO MORE (Old Testament) LAW. V. 26 “For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.” Everything in the New Testament covenant is by faith, not law.

Rom.11:6 “And if by grace then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. but if it is by works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work." It is either one or the other it can't be both, these are two different covenants.If you choose to be under one then you are removed from the other.

Rom. 6:14-15 “For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law, but under grace.”

How can the law be used to prevent sin, to not let sin have mastery over you? It can’t. When people today insist that we must keep the laws of the Old Testament covenant they are removing themselves from the covenant of grace and are not under the headship of Christ but are under Moses. The New Testament makes it clear in Jn.1:17: “The Law came through Moses.” GRACE and TRUTH came through Jesus Christ.

Paul made it clear through his writings "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain." (Gal 2:21). Gal 2:19: "For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.” in other words, Paul is saying the law is dead to him. We don't use what is dead to have life.

Those who had been under the law ( the Jewish people) had been delivered from it to something far better and so has the church.

Rom. 7:6: “But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.”

The Christian who seeks to keep the law to be justified or sanctified has fallen from grace (Gal 5:4).

Acts 2:42 states that the early Church followed not Old Testament rules but “the Apostles’ doctrine.”

The law of God, God’s laws, Moses commandments, God’s commandments are the same laws united under the old covenant. The law," "the law of the Lord," and "the law of Moses," are the same (they include circumcision, priesthood and sacrifices) see-Luke 2:22, 23, 24, 27; 2 Chron.31:3. ("The law," "the law of Moses," "the, book of the law," "'the law of God," are the same- Neh. 8:2, 3, 8, 14, 18.)

When God speaks about the law he does not divide the ceremonial from the moral, it is all one unit. Jews today continue to keep them as one unit identifying them as 613 laws (not 10).

Here is what needs to be answered- did Jesus fulfill only the ceremonial law of Moses only or all of it? All these commands (613) were the law, these are not just Moses ordinances. They were all nailed to the cross and whatever was nailed there died with Christ. The Old Testament law is no longer operational for the believer. Whatever the apostles taught to the church were those commands to keep as a New Testament believer.

The Old Covenant of Moses is the primary focus of the Old Testament but it is not the initial covenant with Israel- the one with Abraham was and the Mosaic covenant fulfills a number of its promises. The New Covenant becomes the primary focus of the New Testament and is the last covenant of the Bible because it reveals the grace of God through Jesus Christ to all mankind. It becomes the only way both Jews and Gentiles are restored to God.

The Judaizers who believed and kept the law by obligation came in to bring the believers back into bondage. In Acts 15:10 the early church rule on this matter of the law. “Now therefore, why put God to the test, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear”. The law of Moses is not binding for the gentiles is made clear in Acts 15.

The Bible says the just shall live by faith, not the law or commandments of the Old Testament.

Paul a former law keeper states “the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.” (Gal 2:20)

Rom 8:3-6 “For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.” It is the Spirit inside the believer that we are to obey to walk according to Jesus.

1 Cor. 15:57 “the strength of sin is the law.” But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Gal 2:16 "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.”

The New Testament focus and exalts Christ not the law. So what is the law for today? Paul tells us “that the law is good if one uses it lawfully” (Tim. 1:8). So what is the law for today if it is still considered good?

Look at Paul’s interpretation in 1 Tim.1:9, that law is made NOT for good men but FOR law breakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious." Is this not the law that states all have fallen short of the glory of God? Good men would be those who repent and follow Christ, not the Old Testament laws.

So is a Christian under law? No, but there are commands we are to obey that are strictly found for the Church in the New Testament, so we are not without law, just not under the Old Covenant law.

[Torqaholic]

When I was in Boy Scouts the local area chapter had meetings in the basement of a Catholic school building. I don't know if anyone was Catholic or not but they never bothered me about religion. It was just a safe place for kids to gather after hours (meetings were in the evening).

Yeah, I'd renounce anything to do with them now. There's no doubt they're on their way to becoming a front for nambla. What kind of idiot exposes a kid to that?

[Joecooool]

Originally Posted by Doug28450

Nice try, but it was a swing and a miss.

Are we to keep the Old Testament law

Are we to keep the Old Testament law?

The law was never given to the New Testament believer but the Old Testament believer. It was a standard they were to live by. It was given for the reason- to increase sin and show us that we are sinful.

I'll address the whole article below, but I wanted to put a note here to show just how god awful stupid the above comment is. And the only way you could believe that is if you believe god is a complete asshole.

The law is given to increase sin to show our sinfulness. Rom. 5:20: “Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound.” Gal 3:19: “What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made.”

In other words when Christ (the seed) was born there would be an and to the law.

Gal. 3:23-25: “But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor (to lead us) to Christ, that we may be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. " NO MORE (Old Testament) LAW. V. 26 “For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.” Everything in the New Testament covenant is by faith, not law.

Rom.11:6 “And if by grace then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. but if it is by works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work." It is either one or the other it can't be both, these are two different covenants.If you choose to be under one then you are removed from the other.

Rom. 6:14-15 “For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law, but under grace.”

How can the law be used to prevent sin, to not let sin have mastery over you? It can’t. When people today insist that we must keep the laws of the Old Testament covenant they are removing themselves from the covenant of grace and are not under the headship of Christ but are under Moses. The New Testament makes it clear in Jn.1:17: “The Law came through Moses.” GRACE and TRUTH came through Jesus Christ.

Paul made it clear through his writings "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain." (Gal 2:21). Gal 2:19: "For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.” in other words, Paul is saying the law is dead to him. We don't use what is dead to have life.

Those who had been under the law ( the Jewish people) had been delivered from it to something far better and so has the church.

Rom. 7:6: “But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.”

The Christian who seeks to keep the law to be justified or sanctified has fallen from grace (Gal 5:4).

Acts 2:42 states that the early Church followed not Old Testament rules but “the Apostles’ doctrine.”

The law of God, God’s laws, Moses commandments, God’s commandments are the same laws united under the old covenant. The law," "the law of the Lord," and "the law of Moses," are the same (they include circumcision, priesthood and sacrifices) see-Luke 2:22, 23, 24, 27; 2 Chron.31:3. ("The law," "the law of Moses," "the, book of the law," "'the law of God," are the same- Neh. 8:2, 3, 8, 14, 18.)

When God speaks about the law he does not divide the ceremonial from the moral, it is all one unit. Jews today continue to keep them as one unit identifying them as 613 laws (not 10).

Here is what needs to be answered- did Jesus fulfill only the ceremonial law of Moses only or all of it? All these commands (613) were the law, these are not just Moses ordinances. They were all nailed to the cross and whatever was nailed there died with Christ. The Old Testament law is no longer operational for the believer. Whatever the apostles taught to the church were those commands to keep as a New Testament believer.

The Old Covenant of Moses is the primary focus of the Old Testament but it is not the initial covenant with Israel- the one with Abraham was and the Mosaic covenant fulfills a number of its promises. The New Covenant becomes the primary focus of the New Testament and is the last covenant of the Bible because it reveals the grace of God through Jesus Christ to all mankind. It becomes the only way both Jews and Gentiles are restored to God.

The Judaizers who believed and kept the law by obligation came in to bring the believers back into bondage. In Acts 15:10 the early church rule on this matter of the law. “Now therefore, why put God to the test, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear”. The law of Moses is not binding for the gentiles is made clear in Acts 15.

The Bible says the just shall live by faith, not the law or commandments of the Old Testament.

Paul a former law keeper states “the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.” (Gal 2:20)

Rom 8:3-6 “For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.” It is the Spirit inside the believer that we are to obey to walk according to Jesus.

1 Cor. 15:57 “the strength of sin is the law.” But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Gal 2:16 "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.”

The New Testament focus and exalts Christ not the law. So what is the law for today? Paul tells us “that the law is good if one uses it lawfully” (Tim. 1:8). So what is the law for today if it is still considered good?

Look at Paul’s interpretation in 1 Tim.1:9, that law is made NOT for good men but FOR law breakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious." Is this not the law that states all have fallen short of the glory of God? Good men would be those who repent and follow Christ, not the Old Testament laws.

So is a Christian under law? No, but there are commands we are to obey that are strictly found for the Church in the New Testament, so we are not without law, just not under the Old Covenant law.

You do realize that if you believe this, then there is no justification for all the bullshit Christians push on homosexuals, correct? The coming of Jesus cancelled out all the old stuff.

Jesus NEVER mentioned it once. For you all to shit yourselves over such a critical issue to god, don't you think he would have at least broached the subject?

But I digress. Go back and keep picking/choosing which parts to believe in.

[Bill]

Well, I see this discussion went downhill, and as is want to do, moved to PR&C, where threads go to die a lonely death.