The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Did you shop for any new vehicle during the supply chain crisis, late 2021 to mid 2022? I actually called Hyundai of New Port Richey. They were at least honest when I called. While they did NOT have a mark up, you had to purchase a car care package (like treatment on paint and seats which is really worth very little) for $3k if you don't live in the local area. As I was 50 miles away, I would have to purchase that $3k car care package to be able to buy the car at MSRP
There reasoning is that if I'm not local to them, I'll have the car serviced somewhere else which costs them money. I see that $3k as a mark up as you are paying $3k for something worth maybe $50.

I was NOT willing to pay a single cent over MSRP. I didn't back then and I wouldn't do that right now.. MSRP is the absolutely maximum I would pay for a car and I would NOT pay for a single dealer add on options. Those are all scams.. Those are cheap items that they sell you at 10 to 100 times their cost.

I ordered a new F250 Lariat in the spring of 2021. When it looked like it was not going to be built in a timely manner I grabbed a F250 Platinum that came in for dealer stock.

Yes they were asking 10K over MSRP and I had to negotiate hard to get them to sell me at MSRP.

Be honest, you are cheap and anything that you spend money on that doesn’t meet your expectations means the other party is a scam.

[GTOguy]

Originally Posted by LATB

So you didn’t have a written quote so you had nothing.

And mark up is not unethical, it’s a business for profit and if the market allows it the seller is going to take advantage of the market.

Are you unethical for charging market rate for your rentals?

Crickets. What a surprise.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Here is one example.. You pull up this F150 Lightning on Autotrader..

Now, look at the fine print in the add. That price includes all available incentives and virtually nobody qualifies for any of them. Just read through the fine print.. That car costs significantly more.. There should be a law that the advertised price is that everyone has to pay and not an unrealistic price that includes down payment, incentives they don't qualify for etc.

So... Mr. Anti-government wants the government to regulate the cost of cars and regulate what businesses are allowed to charge.

Interesting.

The regulation is that the shit is listed. And it is. If you go to that dealer and are surprised by the final price, it's because you're an idiot.

[sublime1996525]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Here is one example.. You pull up this F150 Lightning on Autotrader..

$39995

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

Now, look at the fine print in the add. That price includes all available incentives and virtually nobody qualifies for any of them. Just read through the fine print.. That car costs significantly more.. There should be a law that the advertised price is that everyone has to pay and not an unrealistic price that includes down payment, incentives they don't qualify for etc.

First mistake is using Autotrader. Like Red said, their ads are automated and can be delayed. Also, if you're looking at a car with a stock image, like what you linked, it's most likely not even at the dealership. It's still being built, in transit, or custom ordered (ie sold). You can use those sites to find vehicles but then I go to the actual dealer site to determine a more accurate price.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Landlords will raise their rates when property taxes go up, insurance cost goes up etc. etc. as otherwise they lose money.
STEALERSHIPS on the other hand paid the SAME amount for the vehicles to the manufacturer, yet, sold them more expensive. I would have no problem if a manufacturer increases MSRP due to increased cost.. No issues at all with that.. However, STEALERSHIPS did NOT have increased cost on those vehicles. They just wanted more profit as supply was low and they wanted to take advantage of that.

NOPE
Landlords will charge market rate for rentals. Period.
Expenses have ZERO to do with it.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Here is one example.. You pull up this F150 Lightning on Autotrader..

$39995

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

Now, look at the fine print in the add. That price includes all available incentives and virtually nobody qualifies for any of them. Just read through the fine print.. That car costs significantly more.. There should be a law that the advertised price is that everyone has to pay and not an unrealistic price that includes down payment, incentives they don't qualify for etc.

Another one with a fake price..

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

All new vehicles include a $2000 trade-in assistance dealer discount and a $1000 financing discount. This price requires a trade less than 7 model years old and 120,00 miles or less. Oxford White 2023 Ford F-150 Lightning Pro AWD Single-Speed Automatic Electric Motor BLUETOOTH, MP3- USB / I-POD READY, USB ADAPTER, SATELLITE RADIO / SIRIUS XM, NAVIGATION GPS NAV, MOONROOF SUNROOF, REARVIEW / BACKUP CAMERA, COOLED A/C VENTILATED SEATS, SERVICE RECORDS AVAILABLE, REMAINDER OF FACTORY WARRANTY, HEATED SEATS, ALL WHEEL DRIVE, FOUR WHEEL DRIVE 4WD.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by sublime1996525

First mistake is using Autotrader. Like Red said, their ads are automated and can be delayed. Also, if you're looking at a car with a stock image, like what you linked, it's most likely not even at the dealership. It's still being built, in transit, or custom ordered (ie sold). You can use those sites to find vehicles but then I go to the actual dealer site to determine a more accurate price.

What site do you recommend to look for a vehicle NATIONWIDE? There is no way that you can scan thousands of dealer sites..

[sublime1996525]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

What site do you recommend to look for a vehicle NATIONWIDE? There is no way that you can scan thousands of dealer sites..

Autotrader is fine for searching but I'd use the actual dealer website when you find what you want.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Landlords will raise their rates when property taxes go up, insurance cost goes up etc. etc. as otherwise they lose money.
STEALERSHIPS on the other hand paid the SAME amount for the vehicles to the manufacturer, yet, sold them more expensive. I would have no problem if a manufacturer increases MSRP due to increased cost.. No issues at all with that.. However, STEALERSHIPS did NOT have increased cost on those vehicles. They just wanted more profit as supply was low and they wanted to take advantage of that.

This may actually be the most f**king ignorant shit you've ever said.

What in the F**K do you think happens to a dealership when TAXES go up?
What in the F**K do you think happens to a dealership when INSURANCE goes up? Yes, genius, insurance is 1 of, if not THE largest expense a dealership has.
What in the F**K do you think happens to a dealership when transportation costs go up?
What in the F**K do you think happens to a dealership when health benefits and expenses to employees skyrockets?
What in the F**K do you think happens to a dealership when electricity, water, internet, and every other ****ing expense goes up.

Are you really so pathetically simple minded that you think the only thing that matters is how much they paid the manufacturer for the car?

I refuse to believe that you're really that colossally f**king stupid.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by sublime1996525

Autotrader is fine for searching but I'd use the actual dealer website when you find what you want.

I usually do that. They still list the same fake price on their website and in the fine print somewhere in the text, they add all the scum mark ups and fees.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Another one with a fake price..

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

"Fake"? You are quite literally quoting where they are explaining exactly what the final price will be.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

This may actually be the most f**king ignorant shit you've ever said.

What in the F**K do you think happens to a dealership when TAXES go up?
What in the F**K do you think happens to a dealership when INSURANCE goes up? Yes, genius, insurance is 1 of, if not THE largest expense a dealership has.
What in the F**K do you think happens to a dealership when transportation costs go up?
What in the F**K do you think happens to a dealership when health benefits and expenses to employees skyrockets?
What in the F**K do you think happens to a dealership when electricity, water, internet, and every other ****ing expense goes up.

Are you really so pathetically simple minded that you think the only thing that matters is how much they paid the manufacturer for the car?

I refuse to believe that you're really that colossally f**king stupid.

Nothing went up for them. They cashed in more profit because demand was high and inventory was low. They are now selling the same cars for under MSRP with no mark ups becuause demand it low. Their "COST" didn't change much. They just took advantage of low inventory and high demand to jack up their prices.

[GTOguy]

Does anyone else want to grab a case of soda and go on a road trip with Oliver, or is it just me?

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I usually do that. They still list the same fake price on their website and in the fine print somewhere in the text, they add all the scum mark ups and fees.

I present exhibit A.) as to why dealers are assholes.

Try to imagine dealing with this ... a dozen or more times a day.

Originally Posted by GTOguy

Does anyone else want to grab a case of soda and go on a road trip with Oliver, or is it just me?

I'll bring a bottle of bourbon for the poor salesman that is unlucky enough to end up on the other end of that nonsense.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

This may actually be the most f**king ignorant shit you've ever said.

What in the F**K do you think happens to a dealership when TAXES go up?
What in the F**K do you think happens to a dealership when INSURANCE goes up? Yes, genius, insurance is 1 of, if not THE largest expense a dealership has.
What in the F**K do you think happens to a dealership when transportation costs go up?
What in the F**K do you think happens to a dealership when health benefits and expenses to employees skyrockets?
What in the F**K do you think happens to a dealership when electricity, water, internet, and every other ****ing expense goes up.

Are you really so pathetically simple minded that you think the only thing that matters is how much they paid the manufacturer for the car?

I refuse to believe that you're really that colossally f**king stupid.

BTW, there is also something called FAIR MARKET RENT for houses just like there is a MSRP for cars. I NEVER charge anyone above FAIR MARKET RENT just like dealerships should not charge over MSRP.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

BTW, there is also something called FAIR MARKET RENT for houses just like there is a MSRP for cars. I NEVER charge anyone above FAIR MARKET RENT just like dealerships should not charge over MSRP.

Indeed. FAIR MARKET. Market is not MSRP.

Thanks for playing.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Nothing went up for them. They cashed in more profit because demand was high and inventory was low. They are now selling the same cars for under MSRP with no mark ups becuause demand it low. Their "COST" didn't change much. They just took advantage of low inventory and high demand to jack up their prices.

Yes. By all means. Use all of your insight to tell the guy that owned a dealership in the time that that shit was happening how much things didn't go up.

More profit???? Yes, that's exactly why close to 50% of auto dealers in the US went out of business in a 4 year span.

If you actually believe that, you really are an absolute f**king idiot.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Indeed. FAIR MARKET. Market is not MSRP.

Thanks for playing.

Look, to each their own. If I buy a Tesla, I will pay the advertised price of the vehicle, federally mandated destination charge, sales tax and tag&title state fees. That's it. No games. No fake prices.
I don't want to have to read a page full of small print to find out what the price is. If the advertised price is not what they are charging, I walk out. That's it. I walked out on a few dealers in the past. My last positive experience was at the Hyundai dealership in Maryland where I purchased my Kona Electric.

[Onebadcad]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Landlords will raise their rates when property taxes go up, insurance cost goes up etc. etc. as otherwise they lose money.
STEALERSHIPS on the other hand paid the SAME amount for the vehicles to the manufacturer, yet, sold them more expensive. I would have no problem if a manufacturer increases MSRP due to increased cost.. No issues at all with that.. However, STEALERSHIPS did NOT have increased cost on those vehicles. They just wanted more profit as supply was low and they wanted to take advantage of that.

This marketing / sales strategy is legal, no laws are being broken.
It is CAPITALISM at its finest, consumers have options, they can opt for another stealership.

And you called me a socialist the other day,,,

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Look, to each their own. If I buy a Tesla, I will pay the advertised price of the vehicle, federally mandated destination charge, sales tax and tag&title state fees. That's it. No games. No fake prices.
I don't want to have to read a page full of small print to find out what the price is. If the advertised price is not what they are charging, I walk out. That's it. I walked out on a few dealers in the past. My last positive experience was at the Hyundai dealership in Maryland where I purchased my Kona Electric.

On behalf of every other dealership, thank you for shopping elsewhere.