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Old 02-10-2011, 5:42pm   #41
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You can't make any counter-argument on your own, so you have to regurgitate Krugman's propaganda. Congratulations on being a lemming incapable of your own thoughts I guess.

Fine, since you're so intellectually devoid, I'll go up one step on the ladder and debate Krugman, who is merely intellectually dishonest.

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Originally Posted by Z06PDQ View Post
Paul Krugman - New York Times Blog
January 20, 2008, 4:43 pm
Reaganomics

Since we are, improbably but importantly, discussing Ronald Reagan again, I thought it might be worth posting a few graphs on the Reagan economic record.

First, the unemployment rate. What this figure shows is that “Morning in America” was a one-shot affair — a recovery from a very severe recession.
Uh, so what? We're supposed to not be impressed with Reagan's policies because they had to be implemented in the face of the true worst recession since the great depression (high peak unemployment, higher peak GDP loss, and more quarters of GDP loss than the current recesssion)? Krugman fails to mention that Reagan's generational tax policy changes have only been mildly modified since. Furthermore, the first recession that came in the wake of Reaganomic, the 1990s recession, was the SHORTEST and SHALLOWEST of the 20th century. And it ended WELL before the election of 1992. The "longest period of peace time growth" was NOT presided over by president Clinton. It began while George H.W. Bush was still in office. Clinton presided over the REST of it, in an era of economic prosperity and new, LOW taxation. Bush and Clinton both only slightly tinkered with Taxes.

This point is mindless gibberish at best. Blaming Reagan for the 2 term limit, blaming him for inheriting the massive recession, being in office during it's peak and recovery, and for not being in office for another decade? Stupidity.

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Next, incomes. These are inflation-adjusted after-tax income for the richest 1 percent and the middle quintile, from the Congressional Budget Office, both expressed as indexes with 1979=100. Big gains for the rich, not so much for the middle class:
Oh look, another cheap and dishonest tactic just like the one I discussed above. Scale distortion and using $$$ amount. Hey dipshit, did they not teach you about percentages at Princeton (rhetorical question, I know you know and you're just being dishonest since simpletons like Z06PDQ will eat it up).

In terms of % change, here's the REAL story:



No matter what tax policy we follow, no matter who controls each branch, the ebb and flow of income at ALL levels is uniform. Of course the $$$ amounts are going to get higher and higher at higher income levels. That's how percentages work.
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Old 02-10-2011, 5:44pm   #42
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Next, the poverty rate, up during the recession then down again, but never regaining its previous low:
A convenient cherry-picked number, that conflicts with the data showing the rise in lower income. Why? Because the definition of poverty isn't static.

Again:



Mr. Krugman doesn't like reality, so he has to hunt for some statisitcal anamoly to buck the trend. Notice he fails to address these numbers and the broad economic realities. He ignores them and focuses ONLY on his cherry-picked anamolies.

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Finally, a table on productivity. This is from the 2007 Economic Report of the President. Notice that even the Bush administration dates the upswing in productivity from 1995, not the Reagan era.


In short, the Reagan economy was a story of recession and recovery, but not of any sustained improvement in performance. That didn’t come until the middle Clinton years.
Again, same as above. Reagan isn't responsible for the fact that he had to be president in the immediate aftermath of the worst recession since the great depression. Just like Clinton isn't responsible for getting to be president after the dust had settled and the hard work had been done. Of course, he DOES deserve credit for not radically reversing Reaganomics during the 2 years he actually had power, his first 2 years in office with a Democratically controlled house.

Furthermore, complete bullshit division of time. 1973-1995 all lumped together? GMAFB

Exotic's above post is false, I have never claimed that Reagan and W. Bush were both great and Clinton in the middle was a terrible president. I have criticized Clinton for his failures with regard to Islamic terror and Housing policy. I have also pointed out that he thankfully only slightly tinkered with taxes, and that historical evidence shows while it didn't greatly effect anything, GDP growth and revenue probably would have been slightly higher had we not had those raises. They were unnecessary, and spending cuts were responsible for the "surpluses" of the late 1990s.
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Old 02-10-2011, 5:57pm   #43
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Exotic's above post is false, I have never claimed that Reagan and W. Bush were both great and Clinton in the middle was a terrible president.
I have criticized Clinton for his failures with regard to Islamic terror and Housing policy.
I have also pointed out that he thankfully only slightly tinkered with taxes, and that historical evidence shows while it didn't greatly effect anything, GDP growth and revenue probably would have been slightly higher had we not had those raises.

They were unnecessary, and spending cuts were responsible for the "surpluses" of the late 1990s.
Doesn't matter ... catastrophic deficits *now matter* as your party platform to take the country back ...

Every GOP/Tea Partier to include both Cheney & Rumseld had the gaul to get up on the podium today at CPAC and declare it a problem now despite Reagan, Bush I & Bush II because what they did .... increase spending while lowering taxes .... was in the name of *Freedom & Liberty* ... and now it's Obama's fault because as they said ... he's just like Reagan ...

I simply don't get it ...
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Old 02-10-2011, 10:11pm   #44
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Doesn't matter ... catastrophic deficits *now matter* as your party platform to take the country back ...

Every GOP/Tea Partier to include both Cheney & Rumseld had the gaul to get up on the podium today at CPAC and declare it a problem now despite Reagan, Bush I & Bush II because what they did .... increase spending while lowering taxes .... was in the name of *Freedom & Liberty* ... and now it's Obama's fault because as they said ... he's just like Reagan ...

I simply don't get it ...
It's great to be rich when the Good Old Party is handing out Tax Breaks.
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Old 02-10-2011, 11:02pm   #45
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It's great to be rich when the Good Old Party is handing out Tax Breaks.
Even better to be lower class.







Again, do you people not understand how PERCENTAGES work?

For example, 1% of 200,000 is more than 9% of $20,000.

The FACT is, the tax burden on lower income Americans has been massively lifted the past couple of decades. We are rapidly approaching the doomsday scenario of 50% of the nation basically paying no income tax whatsoever.
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Old 02-11-2011, 9:29am   #46
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Even better to be lower class.







Again, do you people not understand how PERCENTAGES work?

For example, 1% of 200,000 is more than 9% of $20,000.

The FACT is, the tax burden on lower income Americans has been massively lifted the past couple of decades. We are rapidly approaching the doomsday scenario of 50% of the nation basically paying no income tax whatsoever.
You still need to answer the question ... why would the Tea Partiers host Cheney & Rumsfeld (who outspent anybody on the 4 years of the War On Terror or doubling the U.S. Debt and bankrupting the Federal Budget) at CPAC and declare todays deficits as catastrophic and in this regard they need to take the country back with continued lowered taxes while slashing Govt. as the new *Cut & Grow* economy ...
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Old 02-11-2011, 12:55pm   #47
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PR&C Graph Queen _Will bitching about me copying & pasting. that's rich...that's "nine feet up a bull ass" rich. hey Exotix....I'll take "Reagan showed us that deficits don't matter" for a thousand,Alex.

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Old 02-11-2011, 1:58pm   #48
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Quote:
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PR&C Graph Queen _Will bitching about me copying & pasting. that's rich...that's "nine feet up a bull ass" rich. hey Exotix....I'll take "Reagan showed us that deficits don't matter" for a thousand,Alex.
Don't forget, Wars are Free and 2 Wars are twice as Free.
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Old 02-11-2011, 2:19pm   #49
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Don't forget, Wars are Free and 2 Wars are twice as Free.
1st lesson in neocon spending ... why buy one when you can have 2 at twice the price ... (Cost-Plus Accounting in Cheney's no-bid contracts ... see Iraq for Sale on you tube ... )
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Old 02-11-2011, 2:26pm   #50
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Talking hey Will....post some of these graphs up

Trickle Down economics was a Trojan Horse
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Old 02-11-2011, 3:16pm   #51
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Sure thing hoss:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumbass website
What a clown. Again, SCALING distorition.

SAME data used in the graph above, but in terms of % change:

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Old 02-11-2011, 5:38pm   #52
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by andsoitgoes | February 2, 2011 - 6:14pm

When I think of centennial celebrations – my mind always turns to the 1980 movie by John Carpenter – The Fog. The little seaside town of Antonio Bay was celebrating its 100 year anniversary when all hell broke loose – literally. It was a story of gold, greed, political corruption, taking advantage of the disadvantaged and leprosy – much like the world today. Anyway, a hundred years previously, Blake was on the losing end of the whole sordid affair – and he comes back to exact his revenge on those who did him wrong.

When strolling down centennial lane, I also think of things like our country’s bicentennial celebration in 1976. That was one big megillah! From coast-to-coast, everyone was partying. Even if some history-challenged people didn’t really care or even know exactly what they were celebrating – no matter - it was a fabulous opportunity for lots of barbeques, beer and fireworks.

And now, kicking off on February 6th, apparently we have the great centennial celebration for the birth of Ronald Reagan. It seems that it’s going to take a full year to consecrate what would have been his hundredth birthday. Events will be going on all over the country from sea to shining sea – and for an entire year, no less. Anyway, this is where things start becoming misty for me in the cognitive department.

I can understand celebrating the founding of a town or a country or maybe even a person, especially if the tribute is simply on the day itself. But when did we start celebrating the birth of people that are no longer here? Has it been going on for a while and I just missed this tradition? Oh…okay, there was Jesus – but he was supposedly the Messiah and savior of the whole world, so that kind of makes sense. But, even with him, he only gets the one day commemoration of his birthday – although you are encouraged to start shopping for it a couple of months beforehand. And sure we have Presidents’ weekend – that all-purpose presidential holiday and super-sale. And of course, there’s MLK day – but he was a great civil rights leader who was assassinated – so he deserves the day, plus so much more. But someone tell me why out of the legion of U.S. presidents (and all people who have ever lived) we have to have a centennial celebration for Reagan? I mean, I could understand it a little bit better if he was actually here to blow out the candles…but he’s not. Sorry, but he didn’t make it to 100. So, why on earth are we having a yearlong birthday party?

On the old Today show – the weatherman, Willard Scott – used to do a little segment noting the birthday’s of people that were a hundred years old, or even older. He’d say a few kind words, show a photo and…well, I don’t know, maybe he also sent them a copy of his new book or an NBC t-shirt or something. But the thing was…they were a hundred years old and still breathing - and, that’s certainly reason enough to get a shout out on national television.

And since when did we start treating former presidents as if they were our aristocracy, or demigods, or American Idol winners? You know, I think the original idea was that they were simply men…merely guys…just citizens like the rest of us – one person not more important than the next. Sort of the created equal thing. Obviously, I’m not so stupid that I don’t realize how rigged this system is, or how corrupt, inbred and clubby, but still, we’re supposed to not be too obvious about it, aren’t we? Why does Reagan get to stand on a golden pedestal and have time and money lavished on him? Why is Ronnie the recipient of preposterous hosannas of praise, when there are so many people that have lived quieter, but far more ethical and decent lives that get no national attention let alone an entire year of laudatory-overload? You know, this is one of the many things that’s wrong with this country. Instead of questioning the propriety of launching a year long birthday wing-ding for a dead man, everyone just goes swimmingly along with it.

Clearly, the Republican re-writing history machine wants to stamp as much Reagan as they can across the country – try to turn him into a symbol of pure, deified goodness and leadership. They actually succeeded in this endeavor long before this birthday jubilee, as the Democratic president fawns all over the guy so much that it’s downright embarrassing. Obama’s the one, who in 2009, spent taxpayer money on a commission whose sole purpose was to find ways to honor Reagan on what would have been – but isn’t – his hundredth birthday. (P.T. Barnum would have been 201 years old this year, where’s the commission for that?) Obama didn’t even set up a “jobs” commission in 2009 – despite our unemployment crisis, but he had time to pull one together for the Gipper’s one-hundredth imaginary birthday. And, besides this waste of money, Reagan already has a commemorative stamp and an airport named after him (among other things) - how many honors does this dude need?

Oh, I know, this isn’t really a democracy of equal people, like they keep trying to sell us. That’s why they’re forever putting each other on presidential thrones, as if they’re better and more honorable than the rest of us, meriting the highest of accolades and the largest of celebrations. And taxpayer money is spent on it all, while a lot of ordinary Americans eat it all up with a spoon. In my unasked-for opinion, everyone from President Obama on down has it wrong. Reagan isn’t going to turn a hundred years old this February 6th , so there’s no reason to celebrate. He’s dead, so he doesn’t get any more birthday parties. It should be enough that his family and friends honor the memory of the man they knew in private, just as the rest of us do with our loved ones who have passed on.

But for those of elevated status, that apparently isn’t good enough. Dignity, love, thrift, humility and quiet reflection are eagerly sacrificed on the altar of celebrity, extravagance, hyperbole and mass adulation. Why is it that having been an honorable person in life is not sufficient reward? Well…I guess…maybe when you’re not truly a good and decent man, you need a yearlong celebratory lovefest glorifying the day of your birth to hide that sordid fact.

Ah, hell…where’s Blake when you need him?
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Old 02-11-2011, 5:45pm   #53
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Don't forget the Tea Party re-writing what the Founding Fathers said ...

The Egyptian near bloodless coup came along at the wrong time for these *take the country back by shooting (D)'s in the head* fanatics ..
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Old 02-13-2011, 6:26pm   #54
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