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Old 03-08-2012, 9:15am   #21
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I hope, this time next year, Obozo will be a thing of the past.
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Old 03-08-2012, 9:46am   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G8rDMD View Post
I agree oil is finite and not a viable fuel source for the future. The US and Canada have enough oil to sustain North America for at least a century, I'd imagine. So why not use those sources and decrease reliance on foreign oil? You can't just SAY that oil is the energy of the past and ignore present economic crunches as gas sores. Get a fcuking clue and drill in the fcuking Gulf. Refine our own damn oil while giving car companies and energy companies and any individual who wants, huge incentives to develop alternatives. NOW is not the time to mandate this shit. NOW is the time to rescue the fcucking economy--and lowering fuel and, as a by product, food prices is a great way to jump start the failing heartbeat of the American nation. NOW is not the damn time to protect the spotted woodsy turtle dove woodpecker by banning drilling. But then again, I guess we can just let the economy tank, America will disappear and nature can have its land back.

Of course oil is the fuel of the past. But it's also the fuel of the present and near future. Obama just wants to say that so in 75 years the history books make him look smart when we're flying around all Jetson-like in electric hover cars
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Originally Posted by Shrike6 View Post
I'll make this real simple for ya.
This country has always led the world in innovation and technology during times of economic prosperity. The first priority is to get the economy back on track. Obummer isn't going to do it with $5/ gal gas. We need to produce all the oil we can here to undercut foreign oil prices, provide cheap energy to fuel economic growth, which fuels innovation. Get us back to where we were during the heyday of the space program in the 60's, and the rest will take care of itself. I grew up in the 50's and 60's, and never have we been so productive and innovative. Economic prosperity is the key to reaching all our goals. The "progressives" are destroying this country by trying to turn it into a socialist workers' paradise. We will be Like Greece very soon if they are not stopped.
And I'll make it simple for you.

Your solution will not work unless the government nationalized the oil fields.

Oil is sold on the world markets. There is no guarantee that oil pulled from Canada or even here is going to stay here. Why do you think they want that pipeline going to the gulf instead of the refineries in Oklahoma or central Texas? So it can be sold on the world markets. They want an easy way to move their product to where they will get the highest prices. Those commercials you see on Fox News talking about increasing production here wouldn't do jack shit for prices. Notice how they never talk about that?

We as a country have reduced our demand for gasoline so much that we actually export about half a million barrels of gasoline a day. How is drilling more or building a pipeline going to decrease what we spend on gas when we have such an excess supply of it?

And history has shown to keep gas prices high, all OPEC has to do is cut supply. So that means no matter how much more oil we pull from the ground here, all they have to do is cut production and the prices stay the same.

There are only two absolute solutions that will drop gas prices and both of them would make conservatives shit their pants.

1) Nationalize the oil fields and set prices for the oil pulled from the ground. The United states is one of the few oil producing countries that hasn't nationalized its oil fields. All of the OPEC countries along with Mexico, Russia and even Canada have. That is why gasoline is less than a dollar a gallon in Iraq and Venezuela. Only 7% of the world's estimated oil and gas reserves are in countries that allow private international companies free rein.

2) Make speculating on oil illegal.

There are no other "fixes" the government can implement.

Obama doesn't have a damn thing to do with oil prices. Its your guys that are pushing for war with Iran that destabilizes the oil markets. Its your guys that want to keep oil speculating legal. And its your guys that would never support the nationalization of our country's natural resources.

Last edited by Joecooool; 03-08-2012 at 10:52am.
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Old 03-08-2012, 9:49am   #23
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Well, valid points on both sides. I will say that cheap(er) fuel sells Large SUV's, Hummers, etc... Not much innovation or incentive to improve those gas monsters. High gas prices, small fuel efficient stuff.

Americans have short memories. The oil embargo of the 70's was quickly forgotten and it was back to the norm-bigger is better. Tax breaks,subsidies, and .gov driven initiatives pay off.

It wasn't long ago that the only reason people bought Prius's around here was so they could drive in the HOV lane with one person. A simple plan that cost no one any money, but yet encouraged people to buy fuel efficient vehicles.

It has always been easier to buy/ build overseas due to the US's NIMBY policies driven by the EPA. I think it's been 25 years since the last refinery was built.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:26am   #24
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Increased production equals decreased prices, period. In an oil glut, prices drop. Very simple economics 101. Cheaper energy leads to a booming economy, which fuels investment in innovation. Can't live without government control of everything, try living in Cuba.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:38am   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
Oil is sold on the world markets. There is no guarantee that oil pulled from Canada or even here is going to stay here. Why do you think they want that pipeline going to the gulf instead of the refineries in Oklahoma or central Texas? So it can be sold on the world markets. They want an easy way to move their product to where they will get the highest prices. Those commercials you see on Fox News talking about increasing production here wouldn't do jack shit for prices. Notice how they never talk about that?
That is all true. However, it is traded in dollars and since QE1 and QE2 have substantially increased the supply of dollars in the world, it takes more dollars to buy the same amount of oil. That horse is already out of the barn, but we do not have to continue to make these same mistakes and make our currency less valuable vs real-world objects.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:44am   #26
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Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
Oil is the fuel of the past. I simply can not for the life of me understand why all of you are so quick to piss away a finite natural resource. Do you not know all of the products that are made from oil? When the world runs out - and is sure as shit someday will - those left on the planet are going to be royally fecked if we haven't come up with a suitable alternative.

Bye bye medicine. Bye bye fertilizers. Bye bye plastic.

The world absolutely must find alternatives. Be that more nuclear power plants powering electric cars, natural gas powered vehicles, etc, it has to be done. Republicans are satisfied to sit on the sidelines with their thumbs up their collective asses while foreign companies develop this technology. Primarily because the energy companies basically bank roll the party. If we don't act soon, competing nations will pass us by and with more advanced products and lower manufacturing cost.

Getting off oil is a national security issue. Iran and the rest of the middle east wouldn't have half the pot to piss in if the rest of the world wasn't so addicted to oil. Every time you put gas in your car some of that money ends up back with countries that hate us.

Get a damn clue. Build a 21st century power grid and develop the technologies that get this nation off of its oil addiction. Sometimes I think people hate our president so much they are willing to cut off their nose just to spite their face.
Get back to us when you can make this happen over night. Nuclear is a great option for electric power but your fellow progressives who see it as their duty to go on environmental crusades are holding that initiative back. Try again, joe.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:48am   #27
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Increased production equals decreased prices, period. In an oil glut, prices drop. Very simple economics 101. Cheaper energy leads to a booming economy, which fuels investment in innovation. Can't live without government control of everything, try living in Cuba.
I have already explained why this is incorrect.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:52am   #28
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I have already explained why this is incorrect.
And again so many people laugh at that premise time and time again on multiple forums, media outlets, etc... Care to come up with a viable solution, yet?
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:57am   #29
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Democrats in 2002: We shouldn't drill for oil in Alaska! Even if we did, that oil wouldn't be in the pipeline for 10 years!

Democrats in 2012: Quit your bitchin'! Oil is passe!

Don't worry, come November Obama will be the President of the Past.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:57am   #30
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And again so many people laugh at that premise time and time again on multiple forums, media outlets, etc... Care to come up with a viable solution, yet?
1) Nationalize the oil fields and set prices for the oil pulled from the ground. The United states is one of the few oil producing countries that hasn't nationalized its oil fields. All of the OPEC countries along with Mexico, Russia and even Canada have. That is why gasoline is less than a dollar a gallon in Iraq and Venezuela. Only 7% of the world's estimated oil and gas reserves are in countries that allow private international companies free rein.

2) Make speculating on oil illegal.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:00am   #31
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Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
1) Nationalize the oil fields and set prices for the oil pulled from the ground. The United states is one of the few oil producing countries that hasn't nationalized its oil fields. All of the OPEC countries along with Mexico, Russia and even Canada have. That is why gasoline is less than a dollar a gallon in Iraq and Venezuela. Only 7% of the world's estimated oil and gas reserves are in countries that allow private international companies free rein.

2) Make speculating on oil illegal.
You forgot:

3) Rename the White House to The Kremlin.

4) Assign jobs to citizens according to the needs of the State.

5) Outlaw private property.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:08am   #32
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You forgot:

3) Rename the White House to The Kremlin.

4) Assign jobs to citizens according to the needs of the State.

5) Outlaw private property.
If you can't get behind actual solutions, you have no right to bitch about gas prices.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:10am   #33
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This thread is starting to reek of PR&C

But I do agree with Joe that maybe we need to look at outlawing Speculation on oil prices.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:12am   #34
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If you can't get behind actual solutions, you have no right to bitch about gas prices.
If you think the solution is NATIONALIZING OIL FIELDS, like Venezuela...

Well, um, GMAFB.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:13am   #35
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joe, more government intervention is only a solution in the mind of lock-step liberals no matter what side of the aisle they sit on.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:13am   #36
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This thread is starting to reek of PR&C

But I do agree with Joe that maybe we need to look at outlawing Speculation on oil prices.
SURE THING!

Let's interfere EVEN MORE with the free market. What could possibly go wrong?
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:20am   #37
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If you think the solution is NATIONALIZING OIL FIELDS, like Venezuela...

Well, um, GMAFB.
I don't think you understand that virtually all of the oil producing countries have done this.

I know this will get shit because its a Wiki article, but there is a lot of good information on the subject here.

Nationalization of oil supplies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Nationalization of oil supplies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:22am   #38
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SURE THING!

Let's interfere EVEN MORE with the free market. What could possibly go wrong?
FWIW It will never happen. But the ones that are getting fat with oil prices the way are is the speculators. And I'm PISSED I'm not one of them.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:23am   #39
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I don't think you understand that virtually all of the oil producing countries have done this.

I know this will get shit because its a Wiki article, but there is a lot of good information on the subject here.

Nationalization of oil supplies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
More government intervention, eh Joe?
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Old 03-09-2012, 8:18am   #40
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Make sure to post up a link to that ad
I post because it was requested

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