Beck's worst nightmare-

[Z06PDQ]

Originally Posted by TxAg

I'll take that as you either:

1. Have no reliable, verifiable sources.

or

2. Are unwilling to post them.

Pick your poison.

don't tell me you don't already know about this. you are either lying or one clueless mofo.

[VITE1]

Originally Posted by Z06PDQ

don't tell me you don't already know about this. you are either lying or one clueless mofo.

Prove it. Come on. You are the one that made the statement. If you can't back it up with facts then you are just repeating lies.

[Z06PDQ]

Originally Posted by VITE1

Exxon mobile has most of their business overseas.
Plus they paid dividends of over 8 billion in last year and the people who get that money paid income taxes on it.

And just think of all those Union retirement funds that have invested in XOM. I wonder if they would be happy having their dividends cut back?




And GE has for decades aggressively used a tax avoidance policy that is marveled at in the world. And they do a great job of lobbying those in power to keep avoiding power. Can you say BHO is in Bed with GE?

And lastly your fallacy Abbot the middle class. If you are talking about the middle class that so=pent weeks demonstrating for their rights to collective bargaining in WI then you are totally mistaken. Their income and benefits rose and a faster rate than inflation and GDP growth.

Do you have any FACTS to back up your assertion that the rest of the middle class are earning less in real dollars now than under Reagan? Or is this more "repeat it enough" Bullshit that the left is famous for repeating ?

sounds like you are actually envious of giant multinational corporations that cheat on their taxes. I learned a long time ago no source for info is considered worthy by you people unless it's dripping in Koch Bros goo. I just let you go on in your little make believe worlds while the real one passes you by.

[Z06PDQ]

Originally Posted by VITE1

Prove it. Come on. You are the one that made the statement. If you can't back it up with facts then you are just repeating lies.

is your Google broke? I'll bet you will get 3,000 hits if you just try to research it. it's been all over the news for months now. just because you haven't seen it on Faux or the Heritage Foundation doesn't mean jack shit.

[VITE1]

Originally Posted by Z06PDQ

is your Google broke? I'll bet you will get 3,000 hits if you just try to research it. it's been all over the news for months now. just because you haven't seen it on Faux or the Heritage Foundation doesn't mean jack shit.

Prove it.

I am very good at using google. I have found plenty or article braying the same nonsense. All are filled with complaints about the evil rich getting richer.

But none show exactly why the middle class is getting screwed. My guess is because the "Middle class" income is being pulled down by the statistics of all the deadbeats living on the dole coupled with 12-18 million illegals here.

But thats an opinion.

You made a statement of fact. Prove it.

[Z06PDQ]

Originally Posted by VITE1

Prove it.

I am very good at using google. I have found plenty or article braying the same nonsense. All are filled with complaints about the evil rich getting richer.

But none show exactly why the middle class is getting screwed. My guess is because the "Middle class" income is being pulled down by the statistics of all the deadbeats living on the dole coupled with 12-18 million illegals here.

But thats an opinion.

You made a statement of fact. Prove it.

that's what I thought. you already know about the fact they paid no income taxes & one of them even got a refund. you even admit middle class income is on the wane...see, that didn't hurt,did it? LOL now, post up proof of your claim that the deadbeats & illegals are the reason. BTW I do agree that illegals are directly affecting middle class income.

[Will]

Originally Posted by Z06PDQ

but it's perfectly fine for Beck to tell his minions "see these people? you need to shoot them in the head."

Actually if you watch the tape of that particular episode of his show, he was NOT telling people to shoot others. He was talking about how socialists always end up doing this throughout history.

Germany, USSR, Southeast Asia, etc.

Socialism always ends in murder, because most people yearn to be free. This natural human instinct and socialism are mutually exclusive.

[VITE1]

Originally Posted by Z06PDQ

that's what I thought. you already know about the fact they paid no income taxes & one of them even got a refund. you even admit middle class income is on the wane...see, that didn't hurt,did it? LOL now, post up proof of your claim that the deadbeats & illegals are the reason. BTW I do agree that illegals are directly affecting middle class income.

You first. I claimed it as an opinion. You made the claim as fact.

[Will]

As for middle class income since Reagan's presidency....


In 1981 REAL Household Income at the 20th percentile was $17,553. In 2009 it was $20,453. That's an increase of 16.52%


In 1981 REAL Household Income at the 40th percentile was $32,813. In 2009 it was $38,550. That's an increase of 17.48%


In 1981 REAL Household Income at the 60th percentile was $50,750. In 2009 it was $61,801. That's an increase of 21.78%


In 1981 REAL Household Income at the 80th percentile was $75,031. In 2009 it was $100,000. That's an increase of 33.28%


See U.S. Census Bureau
Historical Income Tables - Households
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/incom...H01AR_2009.xls


I trust we all know what REAL income means.

[Z06PDQ]

Washington County Texas Democrats

Saturday, September 6, 2008
The Decline of the Middle Class Income

Since 1980 when the Reagan Administration moved into Washington and instituted what Reaganites described as trickle down supply side economics, there has been a dramatic change in the relative prosperity of the middle class and the small group of very wealthy individuals who have been the primary beneficiaries of Republican economic policies. The statistics listed here clearly indicate that very little of the fruits of the economic expansion have “trickled down” to the middle class. From 1980 to the present, the fortunes of the wealthiest 1% of American have grown dramatically in both assets and income to a point that has been unmatched in this country since the age of the robber barons in the early 1900’s.

* Over the 25 year period from 1980 to 2005 the median family income has increased by 18 percent. During the same period the income of this country’s wealthiest individuals has gone up 200 per cent. The financial magazine, The Economist, reports that in the United States “the gap between rich and poor is bigger than in any other advanced country.
* In 1980 the income of the average CEO of an American Corporation was forty-two times the average blue collar worker’s pay. Twenty-five years later the average CEO’s compensation had climbed astronomically to 431 times the average worker’s pay.
* CEO compensation increased 340 percent from 1992 to 2002, while the average employee’s pay increased only 36 percent, barely enough to keep up with inflation.
* Lee Raymond, the former chairman of Exxon/Mobil, in testimony before congress declared that “we are all in this together, all over the world,” and that the drastic increase in the price of oil was due purely to supply and demand forces. We would all like be in it together with Mr. Raymond whose compensation during his tenure as chairman of Exxon/Mobil worked out to be $144,573 per day. It is fair to ask what concern does someone who is making $143,573 per day have for the severe economic problems of the average citizen that escalating oil prices have created. The Lee Raymond’s of this country are the chief beneficiaries of rising oil prices, accumulating vast wealth while the rest of humanity suffers.
* During the first five years of the 21st century, it is estimated that the United States lost more than three million manufacturing jobs. Much of this loss was attributable to misguided “free trade” policies and agreements such as NAFTA that were supported by our government. In addition, many high paying jobs were outsourced to foreign countries such as India and China where large multi-national corporations could exploit cheap labor at the expense of the American worker.
* According to the Pew Research Center, 59 % of workers polled believe that it’s harder to earn a decent living today than it was 20 or 30 years ago. Despite claims by big business and Wall Street concerning the benefits of globalization and unrestricted free trade, American workers can recognize the reality on main street of a rapidly declining standard of living for the average citizen.
* Economist Emmanuel Saez of the University of California calculated that, even excluding capital gains, that 75% of the pre tax income growth in the so-called Bush expansion (2002-2006) went to the richest 1% of American families versus only 46% in the Clinton expansion (1993-2000). Clearly Republican economic and tax policies have had the effect of enhancing the income of the wealthiest Americans at the expense of the shrinking middle class.
* Texas multi-millionaire Bernard Rapoport recently commented “I certainly don’t think that there is anything wrong in making money the right way. But when 1 percent of the population has more assets than the bottom 99 percent in a country of almost 300 million people – this means that 30,000 so-called capitalists have more combined wealth than the bottom 100 million people in these United States – there’s something wrong!”
* Since 1979 real inflation adjusted hourly wages for most workers have increased by only 1% during a period when the average worker’s productivity increased 60%.

It is obvious that the long term trend for the economic well being of the average American family is in serious decline. The Democratic Party is sensitive to the severe financial squeeze that the middle class is experiencing. We do not believe that this is a nation of “whiners” as ex Republican Senator, Phil Gramm, recently claimed. We believe that the Bush tax cuts which primarily benefit the wealthiest segment of our society need to be eliminated and replaced with a tax plan that benefits the beleaguered middle class. So called “free trade” agreements that eliminate and export good high paying jobs in this country need to be reevaluated. Our trade laws and tax policies need to discourage and penalize mult-national corporations who outsource jobs to low paying third world countries. Average Americans should finally begin to realize that their best interests are not served by the Republican party. We need to wake up now before it is too late to save our rapidly disappearing middle class.

[VITE1]

Originally Posted by Will

As for middle class income since Reagan's presidency....


In 1981 REAL Household Income at the 20th percentile was $17,553. In 2009 it was $20,453. That's an increase of 16.52%


In 1981 REAL Household Income at the 40th percentile was $32,813. In 2009 it was $38,550. That's an increase of 17.48%


In 1981 REAL Household Income at the 60th percentile was $50,750. In 2009 it was $61,801. That's an increase of 21.78%


In 1981 REAL Household Income at the 80th percentile was $75,031. In 2009 it was $100,000. That's an increase of 33.28%


See U.S. Census Bureau
Historical Income Tables - Households
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/incom...H01AR_2009.xls


I trust we all know what REAL income means.

Originally Posted by Z06PDQ

Washington County Texas Democrats

Saturday, September 6, 2008
The Decline of the Middle Class Income

Since 1980 when the Reagan Administration moved into Washington and instituted what Reaganites described as trickle down supply side economics, there has been a dramatic change in the relative prosperity of the middle class and the small group of very wealthy individuals who have been the primary beneficiaries of Republican economic policies. The statistics listed here clearly indicate that very little of the fruits of the economic expansion have “trickled down” to the middle class. From 1980 to the present, the fortunes of the wealthiest 1% of American have grown dramatically in both assets and income to a point that has been unmatched in this country since the age of the robber barons in the early 1900’s.

* Over the 25 year period from 1980 to 2005 the median family income has increased by 18 percent. During the same period the income of this country’s wealthiest individuals has gone up 200 per cent. The financial magazine, The Economist, reports that in the United States “the gap between rich and poor is bigger than in any other advanced country.
* In 1980 the income of the average CEO of an American Corporation was forty-two times the average blue collar worker’s pay. Twenty-five years later the average CEO’s compensation had climbed astronomically to 431 times the average worker’s pay.
* CEO compensation increased 340 percent from 1992 to 2002, while the average employee’s pay increased only 36 percent, barely enough to keep up with inflation.
* Lee Raymond, the former chairman of Exxon/Mobil, in testimony before congress declared that “we are all in this together, all over the world,” and that the drastic increase in the price of oil was due purely to supply and demand forces. We would all like be in it together with Mr. Raymond whose compensation during his tenure as chairman of Exxon/Mobil worked out to be $144,573 per day. It is fair to ask what concern does someone who is making $143,573 per day have for the severe economic problems of the average citizen that escalating oil prices have created. The Lee Raymond’s of this country are the chief beneficiaries of rising oil prices, accumulating vast wealth while the rest of humanity suffers.
* During the first five years of the 21st century, it is estimated that the United States lost more than three million manufacturing jobs. Much of this loss was attributable to misguided “free trade” policies and agreements such as NAFTA that were supported by our government. In addition, many high paying jobs were outsourced to foreign countries such as India and China where large multi-national corporations could exploit cheap labor at the expense of the American worker.
* According to the Pew Research Center, 59 % of workers polled believe that it’s harder to earn a decent living today than it was 20 or 30 years ago. Despite claims by big business and Wall Street concerning the benefits of globalization and unrestricted free trade, American workers can recognize the reality on main street of a rapidly declining standard of living for the average citizen.
* Economist Emmanuel Saez of the University of California calculated that, even excluding capital gains, that 75% of the pre tax income growth in the so-called Bush expansion (2002-2006) went to the richest 1% of American families versus only 46% in the Clinton expansion (1993-2000). Clearly Republican economic and tax policies have had the effect of enhancing the income of the wealthiest Americans at the expense of the shrinking middle class.
* Texas multi-millionaire Bernard Rapoport recently commented “I certainly don’t think that there is anything wrong in making money the right way. But when 1 percent of the population has more assets than the bottom 99 percent in a country of almost 300 million people – this means that 30,000 so-called capitalists have more combined wealth than the bottom 100 million people in these United States – there’s something wrong!”
* Since 1979 real inflation adjusted hourly wages for most workers have increased by only 1% during a period when the average worker’s productivity increased 60%.

It is obvious that the long term trend for the economic well being of the average American family is in serious decline. The Democratic Party is sensitive to the severe financial squeeze that the middle class is experiencing. We do not believe that this is a nation of “whiners” as ex Republican Senator, Phil Gramm, recently claimed. We believe that the Bush tax cuts which primarily benefit the wealthiest segment of our society need to be eliminated and replaced with a tax plan that benefits the beleaguered middle class. So called “free trade” agreements that eliminate and export good high paying jobs in this country need to be reevaluated. Our trade laws and tax policies need to discourage and penalize mult-national corporations who outsource jobs to low paying third world countries. Average Americans should finally begin to realize that their best interests are not served by the Republican party. We need to wake up now before it is too late to save our rapidly disappearing middle class.

Facts VS opinion with culled facts.

Great to see the differnece.

BTW Median income does not mean middle class. Nice try. Some intersting points.

[Z06PDQ]

Stagnating Workers' Wages

In 1979 the American worker's average hourly wage was equal to $15.91 (adjusted for inflation in 2001 dollars). By 1989 it had reached only $16.63/hour. That's a gain of only 7 cents a year for the entire Reagan decade.

But wait. Things get worse! By 1995 it had risen to only $16.71, or virtually no gain whatsoever over the 6 years between 1989 and 1995. During the great 'boom years' between 1995 and 2000 it rose briefly to $18.33 per hour. In other words, from 1979 to 2000, even before the most recent Bush recession, after more than two decades the American worker's average wages increased on average only 11.5 cents per hour per year! With nearly all of that coming in the five so-called 'boom' years of 1995-2000, and most of that lost once again in the last three years. And that includes for all workers, even those with college degrees.

The picture is worse for workers who had no college degree. That's more than 100 million workers, or 72.1% of the workforce. For them there was no 'boom of 1995-2000' whatsoever. Their average real hourly wages were less at the end of 2000 than they were in 1979! And since 2000 their wages have continued to slide further.

[Will]

Originally Posted by Z06PDQ

Washington County Texas Democrats

Saturday, September 6, 2008
The Decline of the Middle Class Income

Since 1980 when the Reagan Administration moved into Washington and instituted what Reaganites described as trickle down supply side economics, there has been a dramatic change in the relative prosperity of the middle class and the small group of very wealthy individuals who have been the primary beneficiaries of Republican economic policies. The statistics listed here clearly indicate that very little of the fruits of the economic expansion have “trickled down” to the middle class. From 1980 to the present, the fortunes of the wealthiest 1% of American have grown dramatically in both assets and income to a point that has been unmatched in this country since the age of the robber barons in the early 1900’s.

* Over the 25 year period from 1980 to 2005 the median family income has increased by 18 percent. During the same period the income of this country’s wealthiest individuals has gone up 200 per cent. The financial magazine, The Economist, reports that in the United States “the gap between rich and poor is bigger than in any other advanced country.

Income Gap is nothing more than a class warfare statistic.

The income gap is MEANINGLESS as a measure of how well off the middle class is.

I'll repost this:

Originally Posted by Will

As a free market economy expands over time, exponential growth will mean that the very rich gain a larger share. This is not necessarily a bad thing if middle and lower income relative to the cost of living is also increasing.



The only way to prevent this phenomenon is to HURT everyone.

It is not better for a man making $10,000 to live next to a man making $100,000 than it is for a man making $50,000 to live next to a man making $1,000,000. In the second instance, the wealthiest man has a large share of income. However the first man is also MUCH better off.

It really doesn't matter to a poor person how much some other guy may have. What matters is what THEY have.

If you REALLY want to believe that income inequality is a problem, then you can cure it - by embracing communism. There is NO other way. The fact is, Income inequality is NOT the problem. It is however often a symptom of other problems. It didn't cause the Great Depression. It was CAUSED BY the climate that led to the Great Crash of 1929. Same thing this past decade. Some of it was CAUSED BY the speculative bubble.

When you think income inequality is getting "bad" --- start looking not at the fact that there is income inequality, because their always will be in a free society, but rather look at the economic climate to see if something bad is happening that is artificially increasing income inequality.

As for this piece:

Since 1979 real inflation adjusted hourly wages for most workers have increased by only 1% during a period when the average worker’s productivity increased 60%.

HOURLY wages. MORE people are salaried, and OVERALL, REAL INCOME has increased.

INCOME is the number that truly matters.

Clearly Republican economic and tax policies have had the effect of enhancing the income of the wealthiest Americans at the expense of the shrinking middle class.

Mindless conjecture on his part and a LIE. The middle class CANNOT shrink or grow if you define the middle class as the middle x % of society. If you define it by household income, it HAS shrunk. HOWEVER SO HAS THE LOWER CLASS. If the middle class shrinks because people move into the UPPER class, that is a good thing:

[Exotix]

Originally Posted by VITE1

Stop deflecting. Tell me the facts. Did the middle class lose income in real dollars since Reagon or not. Facts not pull it out the DailyKods tlaking point. Real facts.

And if you want to talk about the growth of Defects lets compare Revenue growth during GWB to spending. Thats where he screwed up. He spent to damn much.

I was just curious why the GOP/Tea Baggers are in a *Biblical Panic* agenda with regards to the budget, deficits, taxes, unions and war(s) (funding) not only against the socialist/communist/national socialist fascist Libs ... but also each other sans any coherency that makes them all insane wackos ...

.. that's all ... sheesh ...

[VITE1]

Originally Posted by Exotix

I was just curious why the GOP/Tea Baggers are in a *Biblical Panic* agenda with regards to the budget, deficits, taxes, unions and war(s) (funding) not only against the socialist/communist/national socialist fascist Libs ... but also each other sans any coherency that makes them all insane wackos ...

.. that's all ... sheesh ...

SSDD

[Will]

The percentage of the population living in homes with REAL income in excess of $60,000 has essentially DOUBLED since the late 1960.


1967 - 80th percentile = $64,000
2009 - 60th percentile = $62,000


U.S. Census Bureau
Historical Income Tables - Households
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/incom...H01AR_2009.xls

[Will]

And in case anyone is interested, this is what happens when we chart the annual percentage change in REAL household income for each 20th percentile and the top 5 percent of income earners:

[Tinkerbell in Texas]

now that's no fair, Will. Using facts....geez.

[Will]

And now here is that SAME EXACT DATA, but instead of percentage change for each percentile, in Real DOLLARS:





THIS is why income gap is such a misleading and worthless statistic for the purposes of measuring well-being of the middle or lower classes or their progress.


We get a distortion effect, with each percentile's function getting progressively smoother, straighter, and closer to the horizontal axis as we go down the income brackets.

[Z06PDQ]

Gotta love people who quote government statistics when it suits their cause & then turn right around & claim things like "the government is manipulating the unemployment numbers" or insert whatever the *cause of the day* is. do we trust government data or not? which is it? this movement is proof that not everyone buys into the "who cares what the CEO's & corporations make." this movement proves people are tired of company officers making stupid sums of money while the so called services they provide get worse & more expensive. it's time to bring back the tax rates that provided the robust economies history clearly shows us we had when the wealthy were made to pay their fair share.