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Old 09-18-2012, 11:59am   #1
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Default Here Are The 47% Of The Population Who Don't Pay Federal Income Tax

Mitt Romney's latest campaign setback is a leaked video that shows him slagging the 47 percent of the population who, he says, will always vote for Barack Obama, because they want everything for free from the government.

The 47 percent number presumably refers to the percent of the population who don't pay Federal Income Taxes, which of course is just one kind of tax.

From the Tax Policy Center, these three pie charts show who those people are.





But back to the 47 percent. There are two primary ways to pay no (or negative) federal income taxes. The first is to be poor, and the second is to be elderly. In 2011, of the 18.1 percent of American households who paid no federal tax (meaning, no federal income or payroll tax), more than half were elderly, and most of the other half were non-elderly people making below $20,000 a year. The other sliver, roughly one in 20 non-payers, were people who made more than $20,000 in household income.

The reason being poor helps is because, with a combination of tax credits (like the earned income credit and the child credit) and deductions, many people earning under $20,000 a year can zero out their overall rate. The primary reason being elderly helps is that Social Security benefits aren't taxed as income, so if all (or most) of your income comes from your monthly Social Security check, your taxable income is marginal or non-existent.

So there you have it. The poor and elderly.

Meanwhile, Jim Antle at the conservative site The Daily Caller makes another salient point: The elimination of taxes on the very poor has been GOP policy starting with Reagan, and continuing through Bush:

When Ronald Reagan signed into law the Tax Reform Act of 1986, he boasted, “Millions of the working poor will be dropped from the tax rolls altogether, and families will get a long-overdue break with lower rates and an almost doubled personal exemption.”

Both the initial Reagan tax cuts of 1981 and indexing income taxes to inflation in 1985 had a similar effect.

In the 1990s, the Republican-controlled Gingrich Congress passed a $500 per child tax credit that also wiped out the income tax liability of many low- to moderate-income households.

“Fully 93 percent of the tax relief in our bill goes to taxpayers with annual incomes under $100,000, 76 percent goes to taxpayers with incomes under $75,000,” then-House Ways and Means Committe Chairman Bill Archer, a Texas Republican, said at the time. “If ever there was a tax plan for America’s forgotten middle class, this is it.”

Romney's 47% Who Don't Pay Federal Taxes - Business Insider
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:12pm   #2
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Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
Mitt Romney's latest campaign setback is a leaked video that shows him slagging the 47 percent of the population who, he says, will always vote for Barack Obama, because they want everything for free from the government.

The 47 percent number presumably refers to the percent of the population who don't pay Federal Income Taxes, which of course is just one kind of tax.
Too easy. You are talking oranges and apples.

What is the difference: payroll and income tax | Library Answer Person

Federal income tax <> payroll tax.

Unless Duke University is not an adequate "Fact Checker" for your taste.
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Old 09-18-2012, 1:16pm   #3
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Too easy. You are talking oranges and apples.


What is the difference: payroll and income tax | Library Answer Person

Federal income tax <> payroll tax.

Unless Duke University is not an adequate "Fact Checker" for your taste.

Am I surprised ? Not so much...
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Old 09-18-2012, 1:39pm   #4
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Too easy. You are talking oranges and apples.

What is the difference: payroll and income tax | Library Answer Person

Federal income tax <> payroll tax.

Unless Duke University is not an adequate "Fact Checker" for your taste.
Your comment is irrelevant to the discussion. The 47% of Americans Romney referenced are the ones that pay no income tax. But the majority of them still pay tax for Social Security and Medicare. His comments are wrong.

Of the 47% he slighted, 28% of them still pay Medicare and Social Security taxes. 10% are elderly with SS being their only source of income. SS benefits are not taxed.

What dumbass thinks all the retirees are voting for Obama?

Your only real beef is with the 7%. You know, that group of high rollers flipping burgers at McDonalds. And as the article indicates, you can thank Ronald Reagan for the tax breaks for that group.
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Old 09-18-2012, 2:43pm   #5
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Your comment is irrelevant to the discussion. The 47% of Americans Romney referenced are the ones that pay no income tax. But the majority of them still pay tax for Social Security and Medicare.
Neither of those are FEDERAL INCOME TAX. RIF.

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His comments are wrong.
No they are not.

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Of the 47% he slighted, 28% of them still pay Medicare and Social Security taxes. 10% are elderly with SS being their only source of income. SS benefits are not taxed.
But they contribute nothing to the country otherwise. You know, for thinks like national defense, roads, IRS agents, etc. The two items you *cited are (despite the fact that they are in reality both Ponzi schemes) systems in which an individual pays in and in theory receives the benefits down the road. Federal income tax is seized by the government from one group of people to give to another.

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What dumbass thinks all the retirees are voting for Obama?
You really went a long way to leap to that conclusion, didn't you?

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Your only real beef is with the 7%. You know, that group of high rollers flipping burgers at McDonalds. And as the article indicates, you can thank Ronald Reagan for the tax breaks for that group.
Nice spin move there!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earned_income_tax_credit
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Enacted in 1975, the initially modest EIC has been expanded by tax legislation on a number of occasions, including the widely-publicized Reagan Tax Reform Act of 1986, and was further expanded in 1990, 1993, and 2001, regardless of whether the act in general raised taxes (1990, 1993), lowered taxes (2001), or eliminated other deductions and credits (1986).[6]
So it was enacted under Ford, expanded under Reagan, expanded twice more under Clinton, and once more under Bush II. Everyone had a finger in that pie.

And your messiah would do well to take a lesson from that. Even though Reagan may or may not have liked the EITC, he worked with the people across the aisle to reach a compromise (a word Obama clearly has no understanding of) to create a workable peice of tax legislation that moved the country forward.
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Old 09-18-2012, 4:44pm   #6
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But they contribute nothing to the country otherwise. You know, for thinks like national defense, roads, IRS agents, etc. The two items you *cited are (despite the fact that they are in reality both Ponzi schemes) systems in which an individual pays in and in theory receives the benefits down the road. Federal income tax is seized by the government from one group of people to give to another.
The bulk of the cited 47% are working Americans. These are not bums living on the government dime.

These are the people that make your meals, clean your house, work on your car and maintain your lawn. These are the hard working Americans that bust their ass so you and I can live comfortable lives. These are the people who you just said "contribute nothing to the country".

So what would you have the guy making minimum wage contribute to national defense? What would you tell the MILLIONS of Americans making $7.25 an hour that they need to contribute? How much more of the $290.00 per week do they owe? And really his take home is going to be closer to $260 after FICA and any state taxes, so how much more is this guy that takes home about $1,000 a month to live on supposed to pay?

What would you then have the seniors living on SS contribute?

Exactly why are you so eager to take from those with the least to give while excusing 15% capital gains taxes on billionaires?
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Old 09-18-2012, 5:33pm   #7
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These are the people that make your meals, clean your house, work on your car and maintain your lawn.
I make my own meals, clean my own house, work on my own car, and maintain my own lawn...

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These are the hard working Americans that bust their ass so you and I can live comfortable lives.
They bust their asses so I can live a comfortable life?!?!? Oh, holy shit.
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Old 09-18-2012, 5:54pm   #8
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The bulk of the cited 47% are working Americans. These are not bums living on the government dime.

These are the people that make your meals, clean your house, work on your car and maintain your lawn. These are the hard working Americans that bust their ass so you and I can live comfortable lives. These are the people who you just said "contribute nothing to the country".

So what would you have the guy making minimum wage contribute to national defense? What would you tell the MILLIONS of Americans making $7.25 an hour that they need to contribute? How much more of the $290.00 per week do they owe? And really his take home is going to be closer to $260 after FICA and any state taxes, so how much more is this guy that takes home about $1,000 a month to live on supposed to pay?

What would you then have the seniors living on SS contribute?

Exactly why are you so eager to take from those with the least to give while excusing 15% capital gains taxes on billionaires?
I'd tell them to get some overtime, get a second job, start working for themselves, or get a better skillset and get a better job. Most of the people making minimum wage have just started an unskilled labor job. Hey, work harder.....learn the job.....get promoted. Most people toiling away at minimum wage jobs are kids or illegals, and even the motivated illegals work their way to better jobs. Before I was old enough to work legally, I used to mow lawns. If I can drag a lawnmower, weedeater and broom down the street, then so can others.

You can't support yourself or a family on a minimum wage job. Why is it you felt entitled to have kids and start a family if you are working a minimum wage job? I didn't do that. Why do others feel it is OK to do just that? Well, it's OK, Bill will pay for our baby's birth, the WIC, food stamps, free housing, and other goodies.....after all, Bill owes me. I work at a fast food joint.

Color me unimpressed. Those folks need to have skin in the game, just like me.
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Old 09-18-2012, 6:12pm   #9
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Color me unimpressed. Those folks need to have skin in the game, just like me.


Somehow along the way, our society has come to the moronic expectation that people are somehow entitled to go straight to a comfortable life full of sunshine and rainbows and skip right over all of the hard work and sacrifice that it takes to get there.
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Old 09-18-2012, 7:31pm   #10
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our society has come to the moronic expectation that people are somehow entitled to go straight to a comfortable life
Some, not all. There are still plenty of people who believe in hard work and sacrifice.
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Old 09-18-2012, 8:30pm   #11
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Phil, this is why no one wants to do what you call debating. I addressed each point in your previous post. You respond by ignoring most of it and taking one sentence to go on a leftist rant worthy of Alinsky's hand puppet. But I have time to kill so I'll take a swing again

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The bulk of the cited 47% are working Americans. These are not bums living on the government dime.
The true unemployment rate is 16%. All of those people are in the no income tax category, so that has to be 34% of your 47%. Add in handicapped, disabled, elderly, etc and your "bulk" comment is bullshit.
Quote:
These are the people that make your meals, clean your house, work on your car and maintain your lawn. These are the hard working Americans that bust their ass so you and I can live comfortable lives. These are the people who you just said "contribute nothing to the country".

So what would you have the guy making minimum wage contribute to national defense? What would you tell the MILLIONS of Americans making $7.25 an hour that they need to contribute? How much more of the $290.00 per week do they owe? And really his take home is going to be closer to $260 after FICA and any state taxes, so how much more is this guy that takes home about $1,000 a month to live on supposed to pay?
Spoken like a true organizer, the "nobility of the laborer." These jobs are done by people who either a) want to and are willing to accept lower wages to do it or b) do not have skills to offer to the marketplace that are more valuable than the ones they are using. Like anything else, labor is subject to the laws of supply and demand. When there are a lot of people who can do the same job you do, the value of your skillset diminishes and so do your wages.

I employ roughly 85 people, the lowest salaried of which received $30,200 last year plus benefits. I bet, even given that, 2/3 of them fall in the "no income taxes" category. Your argument is complete shit.


To give you an example that you can relate to, the equivalent of telling me I need to pay people more than they are worth would be for you to toss in an extra $30,000 to the purchase price of the boat you just ordered for the sole purpose of distributing it to the people who actually built it. Bet that didn't happen.
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What would you then have the seniors living on SS contribute?
I am not in favor of the circular logic involved in taking back money that has already been handled, and therefore reduced, by the government just so they can reduce it again.
Quote:
Exactly why are you so eager to take from those with the least to give while excusing 15% capital gains taxes on billionaires?
To encourage investment which generates jobs and creates a rising tide which lifts all ships instead of shooting holes in their hulls for the benefit of the Marxists who tell them how bad they are being treated.
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Old 09-18-2012, 8:47pm   #12
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I don't know why all the discussion. What Romney said is correct, the numbers hunt and the people living on entitlements and no taxes are mostly off the table for Romney. Where's the controversy?

JC, you can divide the population however you want, but 46.4% of the public do not contribute to the tax base, that's just a fact. I can't wait to see the surprise on many of their faces when the Bush tax cuts go away in a few months and suddenly the majority of them will be paying taxes, bet they'll change their tune then.
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Old 09-19-2012, 7:51am   #13
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Debate the facts and intent of his comments all day long.

There's no denying this is hurting him.
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Old 09-19-2012, 8:33am   #14
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Debate the facts and intent of his comments all day long.

There's no denying this is hurting him.
I'm honestly not sure that it is hurting him in any real way.

Those that are going to be pissed off at the statement likely weren't voting for him anyway.
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Old 09-19-2012, 8:50am   #15
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Debate the facts and intent of his comments all day long.

There's no denying this is hurting him.
I've said it before and I will again... I honestly don't think it matters 1 bit what he says.

There are 2 reasons.

First, is anybody actually on the fence in this election? Not that I know of. The candidates are so polarizing that a single comment of this magnitude is not going to cause someone to make the jump. Someone may disagree with what he says, but they are not going to change their entire political stance based on it and all of a sudden decide that Obama is a better choice.

The exception is a comment of the "you didn't build that" magnitude. Even then, I think it definitely solidified the position of a lot of small business owners but didn't necessarily change any of them over to Romney. Those voting for Obama simply attribute it to taken out of context, or whatever other spin liberals put on it. Long story short, with such polarizing candidates, people aren't easily swayed from 1 to the other.

Second, we are getting closer to November and point blank, the media is going to be on the side of Obama. They always have been and always will be. No matter what Romney says, they will spin it into a negative. No matter what Obama says, they will spin it positive. Romney's only chance is that a whole lot of people capabable of thinking for themselves show up to vote.
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:23am   #16
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Phil, this is why no one wants to do what you call debating. I addressed each point in your previous post. You respond by ignoring most of it and taking one sentence to go on a leftist rant worthy of Alinsky's hand puppet. But I have time to kill so I'll take a swing again
You need to understand that if I responded to every post it would be a full time job.

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The true unemployment rate is 16%. All of those people are in the no income tax category, so that has to be 34% of your 47%. Add in handicapped, disabled, elderly, etc and your "bulk" comment is bullshit.
Sorry, but that is not what the data show. See the charts above.
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Spoken like a true organizer, the "nobility of the laborer." These jobs are done by people who either a) want to and are willing to accept lower wages to do it or b) do not have skills to offer to the marketplace that are more valuable than the ones they are using. Like anything else, labor is subject to the laws of supply and demand. When there are a lot of people who can do the same job you do, the value of your skillset diminishes and so do your wages.
So because people lack the intelligence or ability to earn more, that makes them less human? If you are ok living in a society that allows corporations to pay workers $7.25 an hour then you are going to have to accept the fact that these people will need government assistance for food, shelter and medical care. Someone making that kind of wage would die if something as simple as a ruptured appendix happened to them without government assistance.
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I employ roughly 85 people, the lowest salaried of which received $30,200 last year plus benefits. I bet, even given that, 2/3 of them fall in the "no income taxes" category. Your argument is complete shit.
I sincerely doubt that. Unless they have a mortgage and multiple kids, it is highly likely they do pay income taxes.

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To give you an example that you can relate to, the equivalent of telling me I need to pay people more than they are worth would be for you to toss in an extra $30,000 to the purchase price of the boat you just ordered for the sole purpose of distributing it to the people who actually built it. Bet that didn't happen.
I never told you what to pay your staff, I said that the millions of Americans making $290 a week can ill afford to pay income tax and be expected to support themselves.
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I am not in favor of the circular logic involved in taking back money that has already been handled, and therefore reduced, by the government just so they can reduce it again.
Do you not see how this statement conflicts with the others you have made? If you impose taxes on the working poor, you will just have to increase their food stamp benefits when they can't afford to eat.

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To encourage investment which generates jobs and creates a rising tide which lifts all ships instead of shooting holes in their hulls for the benefit of the Marxists who tell them how bad they are being treated.
Well, that's been the policy ever since Bush initiated all the tax cuts. So where the hell are all the jobs? Employment numbers are dramatically down since this policy was initiated. The wealthy don't reinvest, they stick the money we use to tax them back into their pockets.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:34pm   #17
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Opinion != fact.
We'll see in November if Mitt and his message connected with voters. I'm thinking not.
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Old 09-19-2012, 2:27pm   #18
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You need to understand that if I responded to every post it would be a full time job.

Sorry, but that is not what the data show. See the charts above.
So because people lack the intelligence or ability to earn more, that makes them less human? If you are ok living in a society that allows corporations to pay workers $7.25 an hour then you are going to have to accept the fact that these people will need government assistance for food, shelter and medical care. Someone making that kind of wage would die if something as simple as a ruptured appendix happened to them without government assistance.
I sincerely doubt that. Unless they have a mortgage and multiple kids, it is highly likely they do pay income taxes.

I never told you what to pay your staff, I said that the millions of Americans making $290 a week can ill afford to pay income tax and be expected to support themselves.
Do you not see how this statement conflicts with the others you have made? If you impose taxes on the working poor, you will just have to increase their food stamp benefits when they can't afford to eat.

Well, that's been the policy ever since Bush initiated all the tax cuts. So where the hell are all the jobs? Employment numbers are dramatically down since this policy was initiated. The wealthy don't reinvest, they stick the money we use to tax them back into their pockets.
Phil, beleive it or not I do appreciate the response here. I am going to be busy this afternoon and evening and from 7 am to 11pm tomorrow. I will take the time to craft a thought out response Friday.
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Old 09-19-2012, 3:00pm   #19
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You need to understand that if I responded to every post it would be a full time job.

Sorry, but that is not what the data show. See the charts above.
So because people lack the intelligence or ability to earn more, that makes them less human? If you are ok living in a society that allows corporations to pay workers $7.25 an hour then you are going to have to accept the fact that these people will need government assistance for food, shelter and medical care. Someone making that kind of wage would die if something as simple as a ruptured appendix happened to them without government assistance.
I sincerely doubt that. Unless they have a mortgage and multiple kids, it is highly likely they do pay income taxes.

I never told you what to pay your staff, I said that the millions of Americans making $290 a week can ill afford to pay income tax and be expected to support themselves.
Do you not see how this statement conflicts with the others you have made? If you impose taxes on the working poor, you will just have to increase their food stamp benefits when they can't afford to eat.

Well, that's been the policy ever since Bush initiated all the tax cuts. So where the hell are all the jobs? Employment numbers are dramatically down since this policy was initiated. The wealthy don't reinvest, they stick the money we use to tax them back into their pockets.
This is a classic example of Liberal Hypocrisy.
Darwinism must be taught in schools but they don't want it to happening real like.,

Some people are born stupid, Some people are born lazy. Some are born stupid and lazy. Why is it our responsibility to feed and cloth them?

And what happened BEFORE big government? Were there bodies stacked in the streets? People dieing of malnutrition? NO they lived with less and worked two jobs. It sucked but thats life.
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Old 09-19-2012, 3:54pm   #20
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Originally Posted by VITE1 View Post
This is a classic example of Liberal Hypocrisy.
Darwinism must be taught in schools but they don't want it to happening real like.,

Some people are born stupid, Some people are born lazy. Some are born stupid and lazy. Why is it our responsibility to feed and cloth them?

And what happened BEFORE big government? Were there bodies stacked in the streets? People dieing of malnutrition? NO they lived with less and worked two jobs. It sucked but thats life.
It's called Living within one's means.

Novel idea, eh?
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