The Katy Freeway

[Kevin68]

Originally Posted by Onebadcad

NOPE
I have yet to see gov efficient in anything:SSA, Medicare/aid, USPS, Amtrak, DOD spending, etc...

So then why the whining about paying a toll for a new road? In all of your above examples, wouldn't you be better off if the gov't returned our tax dollars and let the private market fill the need and you pay for the services you want...except for provision of the constitutionally-mandated national defense. Even with gov't corruption and inefficiency, paying a toll at least gives you some control over what your are paying for your (admittedly inflated) portion of the road. Or are you just mad that some people are flying by in the tolled lanes and you are stuck in traffic? Does FL not have any private toll roads?

Originally Posted by Onebadcad

If gov were more efficient our gas tax dollars would be more than sufficient.

How could you possibly know this? Do you know that the US uses (and taxes) about the same amount of gasoline as it did in the early 2000's, and less than it did around 2015? The federal gas tax hasn't changed in more than 30 years, yet there are significantly more cars on the road and land/construction costs have risen. Are you suggesting the feds and states raise their gas taxes to pay for new roads and maintain existing roads rather than tolling the users of the new road?

BTW, I am NOT advocating for higher gas taxes. I'm pointing out that the money for roads has to come from somewhere. If gov't must do it, tolling the users is preferable to raising taxes. At least you have a choice to not be robbed.

Would you be OK with Gov't selling all their roads, repealing the gasoline tax, striping all road funding from federal and state budgets and tolling everyone on every road? I think most people would come out ahead in this scenario.

[DJ_Critterus]

Originally Posted by vettemed

Starke wasn't really bad, it was Lawtey and Waldo. There was one cop in a red impala in Waldo that was especially aggressive. I was happy when he disappeared from 301.

That's the two I meant. I always passed those two backwater shit holes by going through starke to get on 301.

[Onebadcad]

Originally Posted by Kevin68

So then why the whining about paying a toll for a new road? In all of your above examples, wouldn't you be better off if the gov't returned our tax dollars and let the private market fill the need and you pay for the services you want...except for provision of the constitutionally-mandated national defense. Even with gov't corruption and inefficiency, paying a toll at least gives you some control over what your are paying for your (admittedly inflated) portion of the road. Or are you just mad that some people are flying by in the tolled lanes and you are stuck in traffic? Does FL not have any private toll roads?




How could you possibly know this? Do you know that the US uses (and taxes) about the same amount of gasoline as it did in the early 2000's, and less than it did around 2015? The federal gas tax hasn't changed in more than 30 years, yet there are significantly more cars on the road and land/construction costs have risen. Are you suggesting the feds and states raise their gas taxes to pay for new roads and maintain existing roads rather than tolling the users of the new road?

BTW, I am NOT advocating for higher gas taxes. I'm pointing out that the money for roads has to come from somewhere. If gov't must do it, tolling the users is preferable to raising taxes. At least you have a choice to not be robbed.

Would you be OK with Gov't selling all their roads, repealing the gasoline tax, striping all road funding from federal and state budgets and tolling everyone on every road? I think most people would come out ahead in this scenario.

Have a good day, thanks.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

Those guys were all over when I toured Southern Florida....there were so many on 95 I thought maybe they were on the lookout for an escaped prisoner or something. Turns out they were all just running speed traps.

There were even cops on Alligator Alley.

You toured South Florida. Southern Florida is no where near I-95 or Alligator Alley.

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by Kevin68

Would you be OK if they refunded your road tax dollars and make all roads toll roads?

In principle yes. In praxis, the road operators would have to prove to me that they won't **** things up even worse than they already are through Corporate Greed and/or plain old incompetence.

Who has the greater incentive to maintain and optimally design the road, gov't (who has a captive source of income) or a private company (who must satisfy paying customers)?

Well if your product is unusable because you cut corners during construction that's going to result in an enormous hit to your revenue. Likewise if the road capacity is reduced due to repair work. This should incentivize toll road operators to build durable, high-quality roads from the git-go. Kinda like how the railroads started out back in the 1840s. But corporations are a lot less long-term in their approach these days than they were back then.

[Kevin68]

Originally Posted by dvarapala

In principle yes. In praxis, the road operators would have to prove to me that they won't **** things up even worse than they already are through Corporate Greed and/or plain old incompetence.



Well if your product is unusable because you cut corners during construction that's going to result in an enormous hit to your revenue. Likewise if the road capacity is reduced due to repair work. This should incentivize toll road operators to build durable, high-quality roads from the git-go. Kinda like how the railroads started out back in the 1840s. But corporations are a lot less long-term in their approach these days than they were back then.

I somewhat agree with that. Corporations are not perfect. I don't know that greed can be objectively defined and I have no problem with a company making a large profit if they deliver a product/price that is superior to my other options. I do think that incentives matter and a for-profit corporation has greater incentives to build a high quality product and manage it well than does the DOT. Shareholders can withdraw their financial support, taxpayers can't.

Are you sure that railroads were better built and safer in the 19th century they are today per, say, passenger-mile, or ton-mile?

[Onebadcad]

Originally Posted by LATB

You toured South Florida. Southern Florida is no where near I-95 or Alligator Alley.

Many will call Southern Florida all places around the Lake, and south of there down to The Keys, some many do the same for all central parts south of Orlando.

When many say South Florida, the refer to both coasts, Lee County and points south, Palm Beach and points south.
Some may now use SW FL for Lee County and points south, and SE FL for Palm Beach and points south.

I grew up calling Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach South Florida, and will stick with that.

Many still refer to Miami-Dade as North Havana.

[DDSLT5]

Originally Posted by Anjdog2003

Billings Montana

Uh huh.

[NoOne]

Roads are the biggest scam in the US.

I remember back in the early 90's Michigan did an experiment with this 25 year concrete on a section of I75.

It was like a 1/2 mile or so of this new super pavement. It lasted well beyond its lifetime, what did they do, tore it up and put in the old shit which doesn't last. The day they took it out looked like the day they put it in.

They were going to redo something like 39 miles of I75 from south of Detroit to Northern Oakland county, said it was going to take 10 years which made no sense to anyone, then they revised the time line to 6-8 months per section, it was divided into 3 almost even sections.

Then they realized, and this no joke, they used the wrong concrete, and had to tear up an entire section and redo it.

The freeways here are under perpetual construction. They redid I96 and it looks like a toddler did it, the pavement is not the same color, it looks like a patchwork everywhere.

Meanwhile in West Bloomfield Michigan they redid 6 total miles of 2 lane road in under 48 hours with one of the machines that digs up and lays down a new road at once. I don't know how much it cost but one day your on an old road, now your on a new one the next.