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Old 11-07-2012, 08:39am   #1
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Default Romney Won Independents, Performed Better Among Them Than Any Republican in 25 Years.

Independent Voters:

2012: Romney - Won them 50% to 45%
2008: McCain - Lost them 44% to 52%
2004: Bush - Lost them 48% to 49%
2000: Bush - Won them 48% to 46%
1996: Dole - Lost 35% to 43%
1992: Bush - Lost 32% to 38%
1988: Bush - Won 55% to 43%

Romney delivered the best performance among independents by a Republican Presidential candidate in 25 years.

Presidential Race - 2012 Election Center - Elections & Politics from CNN.com

Independent Voters in Presidential Elections | The Independents | washingtonpost.com

Local Exit Polls - Election Center 2008 - Elections & Politics from CNN.com


Too many Democratic Voters, and Specifically too few Women and Minorities voting Republican.

Those who react to this loss by clamoring for a more right-wing candidate will ensure more defeats like this if they get their way.

The same electorate who voted to reelect President Obama by a slight majority believed by a slightly larger majority that Mitt Romney would be better for the economy, and a large majority thought that the economy was issue #1

Romney performs better among independents than Obama and better than any (R) candidate in 25 years. Romney convinces a majority of the voters he'd be better for the economy. Romney loses, and loses by Double-Digits among women and loses by over 40% among Latinos.

I don't think the problem could be ANY CLEARER. Romney's economic message of lower taxation, more limited government, and more free enterprise with less government regulation WORKED.

Romney lost the election, against an opponent whose entire strategy focused around trashing Romney, specifically on social issues and by spending billions of dollars and thousands of campaign hours painting Romney as an extreme social conservative.

Any conservative and any Tea Partier who isn't brain dead knows darn well what this means.

We are at a cross-roads, and are presented with a very simple and very clear choice.

One path leads to future viability. The other obscurity.

Which one will we collectively choose???

:lurk:
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:00am   #2
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You guys need to ditch the tea party, stop making gay marriage and abortion litmus tests, and run Grover Norquist and Karl Rove off a cliff.

Like it or not, your party is seen as the party against things. Anti gay, anti immigrant, and anti moderate. Those populations are rising, you better get closer to the middle or you will become obsolete.
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:01am   #3
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What this tells me is that quite simply we have reached the tipping point where the people casting votes for themselves outweigh theose casting votes for the country.

We have an economy in the shitter, on the verge of collapse and the candidate that far and away is recognized as better for the economy loses to someone who simply panders to every minority group on social issues and opens the flood gates to immigrants.


What is the cross road? THIS was the cross road... and it is now in the rear view.
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:07am   #4
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Crossroads,eh?

What I see is more than 50%, perhaps much more, on the government dole by 2016. This will solidify the radical left and it's hold on power. NOBODY will vote to lose their piece of the pie.

Add a "leader" will, in all liklihood, appoint SC Justices, and who has already expressed disdain for our Constitution, future is bleak.

The only upside is the left's rabid supporters are in the same boat we are...
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:30am   #5
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As much as I wanted a change and to have Romney as the president, I truly did not believe it would happen. I was told that it would be a landslide victory for Mitt, but I did not see it that way.
If you look at how the people and the break down of the voters.
I wish I remembered the actual numbers and groups for Romney, but Obama had 93% of the black vote 71% Latino, 61% single mothers and 30% young voters.
Romney strong voters were white, married with children, 65 and older. So it just shows the this country has gone to the I want it for free, it is the governments job to take care of me and I want it now and I don't care what it cost, I will simply charge it and try and pay later.
If the republican party does not wake up and start looking a social issues and court the Latino and women they will be a dieing party. They always talk about swing states. Look at Texas, it has always been a Red state, but I predict that by 2016 with the strong Latino population it will be a swing state.
I am not saying that the republican party needs to adopt a platform that is mirrors the Dem's, but then need to look at social issues a little more closely.
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:14am   #6
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Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
You guys need to ditch the tea party, stop making gay marriage and abortion litmus tests, and run Grover Norquist and Karl Rove off a cliff.

Like it or not, your party is seen as the party against things. Anti gay, anti immigrant, and anti moderate. Those populations are rising, you better get closer to the middle or you will become obsolete.
That's because your party had nothing good to demonstrate about their own record for the last four years, so they kept ignoring the 800-lb gorilla in the room and painted the picture you describe above to anyone that would listen.
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:46am   #7
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Originally Posted by Loco Vette View Post
That's because your party had nothing good to demonstrate about their own record for the last four years, so they kept ignoring the 800-lb gorilla in the room and painted the picture you describe above to anyone that would listen.
... and unfortunately, they had no shortage of idiots listening.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:21am   #8
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You guys need to ditch the tea party, stop making gay marriage and abortion litmus tests, and run Grover Norquist and Karl Rove off a cliff.
The Tea Party needs to get away from the social conservatives that hijacked it. I ranted about this earlier this year. "Taxed Enough Already" has jack shit to do with social issues.

And so long as the media is complicit, the right will lose on social issues. They are a non-starter when rhetoric like "racist!" and "the war on women" actually get idiots to believe the lies rather than find out the truth.

The right also needs to learn that screaming for fiscal issues to be limited to what is constitutional falls on its face when they will fight for social issues that have jack shit to do with the constitution.

We're losing this country due to fiscal issues. But we cannot fix it because of social ones.

What a f'n mess.
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Old 11-07-2012, 12:16pm   #9
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The Tea Party needs to get away from the social conservatives that hijacked it. I ranted about this earlier this year. "Taxed Enough Already" has jack shit to do with social issues.

And so long as the media is complicit, the right will lose on social issues. They are a non-starter when rhetoric like "racist!" and "the war on women" actually get idiots to believe the lies rather than find out the truth.

The right also needs to learn that screaming for fiscal issues to be limited to what is constitutional falls on its face when they will fight for social issues that have jack shit to do with the constitution.

We're losing this country due to fiscal issues. But we cannot fix it because of social ones.

What a f'n mess.
This is a good post.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:53pm   #10
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The Tea Party needs to get away from the social conservatives that hijacked it. I ranted about this earlier this year. "Taxed Enough Already" has jack shit to do with social issues.

And so long as the media is complicit, the right will lose on social issues. They are a non-starter when rhetoric like "racist!" and "the war on women" actually get idiots to believe the lies rather than find out the truth.

The right also needs to learn that screaming for fiscal issues to be limited to what is constitutional falls on its face when they will fight for social issues that have jack shit to do with the constitution.

We're losing this country due to fiscal issues. But we cannot fix it because of social ones.

What a f'n mess.
The problem is that you simply cannot separate the 2. liberals know they blow a big donkey dick when it comes to the fiscal issues and will invariably attack every angle of every social issue, use every scare tactic, point blank make shit up, and do exactly what they did this year to anybody who challenges them.

It's a fairly simple strategy that unfortunately works for them. Target the uninformed, the ignorant, and the oblivious. Make the other guy out to be some heartless evil devil that kicks babies and shoots poor people for fun. That is enough to beat those who are informed in a national election.

Just look back. obama didn't even TRY to get the vote of those who cared about the economy. He simply conceded it and went after women, latinos, blacks, and promised more handouts to the poor.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:28pm   #11
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Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
You guys need to ditch the tea party, stop making gay marriage and abortion litmus tests, and run Grover Norquist and Karl Rove off a cliff.

Like it or not, your party is seen as the party against things. Anti gay, anti immigrant, and anti moderate. Those populations are rising, you better get closer to the middle or you will become obsolete.
Just in case anyone needs perspective (and I don't think anyone here does), this is coming from the same guy who thinks laser etching serial numbers on bullets will decrease gun crime.

Now there's someone who has clarity.
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:00pm   #12
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The problem is that you simply cannot separate the 2. liberals know they blow a big donkey dick when it comes to the fiscal issues and will invariably attack every angle of every social issue, use every scare tactic, point blank make shit up, and do exactly what they did this year to anybody who challenges them.

It's a fairly simple strategy that unfortunately works for them. Target the uninformed, the ignorant, and the oblivious. Make the other guy out to be some heartless evil devil that kicks babies and shoots poor people for fun. That is enough to beat those who are informed in a national election.

Just look back. obama didn't even TRY to get the vote of those who cared about the economy. He simply conceded it and went after women, latinos, blacks, and promised more handouts to the poor.
You don't need to separate the two. But you need to stop fighting for them on the federal level.

There is no more constitutional rationalization for some of the social issues that are pushed on the right than the fiscal issues that are pushed on the left.

They are state issues and should be left to that level.
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:09pm   #13
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Like it or not, your party is seen as the party against things.
You may be right, but it does not mean people should push their morals and beliefs aside to accommodate a rising population of those who are for things that will destroy our country. The ship is listing and it's not pretty.
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Old 11-08-2012, 01:32am   #14
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I don't think the problem could be ANY CLEARER. Romney's economic message of lower taxation, more limited government, and more free enterprise with less government regulation WORKED.
This might be a stupid question to you, but his message WORKED? He lost.

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opponent whose entire strategy focused around trashing Romney, specifically on social issues and by spending billions of dollars and thousands of campaign hours painting Romney as an extreme social conservative.
If his message WORKED, this would have been buried underneath it.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:32am   #15
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If his message WORKED, this would have been buried underneath it.
You're right. It didn't work because it never stood a chance with pretty much every media outlet in the country stacked against it while at the same time they're slurping on obama's nuts whenever possible and magically ignoring anything negative towards him.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:53am   #16
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You're right. It didn't work because it never stood a chance with pretty much every media outlet in the country stacked against it while at the same time they're slurping on obama's nuts whenever possible and magically ignoring anything negative towards him.
Red, I'm sorry but while this was certainly a FACTOR, why can't anyone admit the R party is a damn mess? And lets be honest, the conservative right has it's media bias just as well. Look at all the articles posted here over the last few months.

I said it on election night; If the party can't beat THIS guy? You're running the wrong candidate.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:22am   #17
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Red, I'm sorry but while this was certainly a FACTOR, why can't anyone admit the R party is a damn mess? And lets be honest, the conservative right has it's media bias just as well. Look at all the articles posted here over the last few months.

I said it on election night; If the party can't beat THIS guy? You're running the wrong candidate.

Neither party is worth a shit.

With that said, it didn't matter what Romney did or said. EVERYTHING any person associated with the R party did or said was attributed directly to him. Some dumbass says that pregnancy from rape is what God intends... it is reported as if Romney said it himself. The media did everything in it's power to completely bombard the public with anti-Romney information. What's worse is they did it under the guise of reporting the news. The same does NOT happen on the left. Hell, even the things the VP says are simply dismissed. You have complete assholes on the left as well as those on the right. The difference is that when it is on the right, it is portrayed against everybody. When it is the left, it is just the individual.

The only way that a person ever got a fair perspective of Romney is if they went actvely searching for it and made up your own mind based on multiple sources. The average person simply isn't going to do that. If any election in the last 80 years was important to the economy, it was this one, yet the media focused 100% on abortion and birth control. Why is that? The answer is simple. They didn't want to focus on the economy because that would mean they had to admit their hero sucked a big donkey dick. Why is it that you never heard that there are 47 million people on food stamps. 47 f*cking million people... the COMBINED population of the 50 largest cities in this country on food stamps. Do you think the average voter could tell you the number of people on food stamps? Why do you think the media never felt the need to report on the personal wealth of the middle class going down? Why did they not tell about the skyrocketing unemployment of women? Why did they continuously say that obama had "created 5 million jobs" and yet never include that many more than that had been lost? Why was the debt and deficit never an issue? Why was it not an issue that we have no budget? Why was it repeatedly reported that Romney had "no plan" while at the same time omitting that even through today, obama doesn't have any plan whatsoever? ETC ETC ETC. The list goes on and on.

The answer is simple... they didn't want to because it would have been bad for obama for the facts and numbers to be out there on a large scale. The media quite simply pushed every major issue under the table and made this election about the trivial shit. They made it about ideals rather than facts and they portrayed obama as a hero and Romney as evil. Plain and simple.

The right has exactly 1 large market source leaning it's way. Fox. EVERY other outlet including ALL of the mainstream markets are flat out undeniable left.

The only thing that the casual voter heard through this election cycle is that obama is great and that Romney is and evil rich white guy.

Look at your comment, "If the party can't beat THIS guy..." What you fail to see is that the majority of the country doesn't see obama as "THIS guy". They see him as wonderful, quite simply because that is what they hear nonstop.

Look at the OP of this thread. Romney WON the independent vote. Among those who actually paid attention and vote on issues rather than party lines, among those who chose to make up their own minds, he WON, and by a sizable margin.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:36am   #18
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That's because your party had nothing good to demonstrate about their own record for the last four years, so they kept ignoring the 800-lb gorilla in the room and painted the picture you describe above to anyone that would listen.
Actually Obama had lots of good things to talk about. He got healthcare reform passed, allowed gays to serve openly in the military, pulled us out of the recession and got us out of Iraq. Its just that your side didn't like these things.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:38am   #19
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You may be right, but it does not mean people should push their morals and beliefs aside to accommodate a rising population of those who are for things that will destroy our country. The ship is listing and it's not pretty.
So don't. See what happens.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:56am   #20
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Actually Obama had lots of good things to talk about. He got healthcare reform passed, allowed gays to serve openly in the military, pulled us out of the recession and got us out of Iraq. Its just that your side didn't like these things.
Just curious... do you actually believe the stupid shit you say?

If obamacare was such a good thing, why did he never mention it on the campaign trail? Interesting. Seems to me like if it was such a great thing, maybe he would have mentioned it at least once in a debate, maybe in some of his hundreds of campaign speeches, maybe in some of his TV ads. But, he didn't. Why? Because it is a colossal failure of a plan and everybody other than the most ignorant libtard nut slurpers knows it. The number 1 thing you have listed as a "good thing" and he avoided it like the plague during the campaign. Yep. There's a winner.

Pulled us out of a recession? Really? Take a step off of your f*cking island and look at reality. The economy is SHIT. More people are unemployed than when he started. Net worth of the middle class is down. He increased food stamp recipients by 47% in 3 years to 47 MILLION PEOPLE. Poverty levels have increased. Businesses are leaving in droves to go overseas. Manufacturing costs here have skyrocketed. Economic growth is abysmal. The unemployment rate of women and blacks has skyrocketed. The labor force participation rate has fallen off a cliff.

Please tell us that you are actually trying to make the argument that he has done well with the economy. Even you aren't that ignorant.


Got us out of Iraq? How's that thing in Afghanistan working out? How about his promises for Gitmo? How's Libya? Syria? How's Iran look these days? Yea. He's kicking ass with his foreign policy.

So the thing we're left with gays in the military. 4 years... 2 of them with COMPLETE control of the government and your accomplishment is gays in the military.

You really think this is a good record??
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