The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread

[Steve_R]

So there's no objective criteria that differentiates a Performance SUV from an SUV. It's your personal opinion. Got it.

Do you know what "objective criteria" means? It appears not.

[Unsuspicious]

Definition of objective is subjective

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by Unsuspicious

Definition of objective is subjective

Apparently so if you're a Tesla slurper.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

So there's no objective criteria that differentiates a Performance SUV from an SUV. It's your personal opinion. Got it.

Do you know what "objective criteria" means? It appears not.

The same way that GM calling the Corvette a "supercar" apparently makes it so.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

even though the Model Y in the Performance version would still run circles around the X5. (0.87 skid pad vs. the Model Y's 0.94 and much better acceleration)

"Run circles around"? Holy shit. When it comes to anything other than a straight line you have absolutely zero clue what you are talking about. None. We've had this discussion. You are an absolute f**king idiot if you think that you can look at a skidpad number and tell what will "run circles around" something else. To try to break down PERFORMANCE into 1 or 2 simple numbers is absolutely pathetically simple minded. Are you really incapable of understanding anything beyond that... or do you just not like how the Tesla stacks up if you actually look at the whole picture rather than cherry picking 1-2 lines?

Just to clarify, your stance is that if I add a 100 shot of nitrous to a CR-V and put some sticky tires on it, it is now in the same class as the X5M. Horsepower and handling (well, at least your version of handling). Done.

You stick to horsepower because it is quite literally the only thing that the Tesla has over the other cheap SUVs. It has shit build quality, cheap ass materials, lacks the luxury features, and in general lacks everything else. Horsepower is the 1 single thing that the Tesla has... and about 99% of the population that drives SUVs couldn't give a shit less. So yea, whether you like it or not, whether you can understand it or not, bringing them into the discussion is spot on.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

The category itself has the criteria in it. PERFORMANCE SUV.

The difference is PERFORMANCE!

It seems that you have missed the word "LUXURY" in the class descriptions of the BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Genesis, and others.

They are LUXURY SUVs with performance packages.

The Tesla?

Here, let me help you out.

https://www.caranddriver.com/ranking...uxury/mid-size

Guess what's not in this list...

Generally speaking, luxury vehicles have more power than theit lower end counterparts but that horsepower is not what defines them. An idiotic skidpad number is not what defines them. 1/4 mile is not what defines them. Someday you may be able to figure that out.

...or maybe not.

[Onebadcad]

To end a part of the discussion, THIS IS A PERFORMANCE SUV!!

YouTube

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Onebadcad

To end a part of the discussion, THIS IS A PERFORMANCE SUV!!

Definitely built better than the Tesla.

[Onebadcad]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Definitely built better than the Tesla.

More soul too!!

[erickpl]

Originally Posted by Aerovette

I might buy an EV if the charging stations had titty bars.

I would at least see some value in wasting that hour.

I see a business opportunity here!

Now what to call it those bars? LOL

[RedLS1GTO]

Everybody knows that the Tesla is fast in a straight line. It's faster than the rest of the SUVs. I don't think that was really in question.

However, if you want something absolutely entertaining and hilarious, go to about 16:15 in this video.

GrandSportC3, pay close attention. Do you want a lesson on why PERFORMANCE isn't measured by 2 lines on a spec sheet? Do you want to see why, exactly, the Tesla wouldn't "run circles" around the BMW? Do you want to see the difference between a well designed performance vehicle ... and a basic piece of shit with a lot of horsepower?

Here you go. Try to learn something.



I REALLY wish they would have turned around and made it back to back stops. The Tesla would have run out of runway if it had to do it a second time.

PERFORMANCE!!!!!!!!

[Steve_R]

[GSC3] Stopping isn't part of performance. [/GSC3]

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

[GSC3] Stopping isn't part of performance. [/GSC3]

But... SKIDPADDDD!!!!!!

[erickpl]

Originally Posted by Aerovette

Maybe Hertz should have invested in some big yellow restaurants with charging stations so people could get a hot meal while they charged up.

Hertzburgers. - You only rent them.

Kinda like beer.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

It seems that you have missed the word "LUXURY" in the class descriptions of the BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Genesis, and others.

They are LUXURY SUVs with performance packages.

The Tesla?

Here, let me help you out.

https://www.caranddriver.com/ranking...uxury/mid-size

Guess what's not in this list...

Generally speaking, luxury vehicles have more power than theit lower end counterparts but that horsepower is not what defines them. An idiotic skidpad number is not what defines them. 1/4 mile is not what defines them. Someday you may be able to figure that out.

...or maybe not.

You understand that performance and luxury are 2 different things?

Also, let's compare actual luxury features. Which features for example does a X5 have that a Model Y does not have?

Ratings are biased. Usually, brands that advertise do better in reviews if they are advertising on the reviewers site.

We were talking about Performance SUV's and you bring a list of Luxury SUV's

[Onebadcad]

If I could get one of these, it may sway my attitude towards telsa:

https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/roadster

When the new Tesla Roadster was unveiled as a concept in November 2017, Musk touted some pie-in-the-sky performance numbers for this car, including a 60-mph time of 1.9 seconds, a top speed of more than 250 mph, and a quarter-mile time of just 8.8 seconds. That's outrageous enough, but the company is now claiming a 60 mph time in less than a second. We'll see.

[erickpl]

All of this has been an interesting back and forth. I'll throw in my take on the EV's, not that means squat. I am pro EV, but also pro ICE. Guess I'm a hybrid.

We bought in 2022 a Kia EV6 (NOT the GT). At that time, we were spending quite a bit on gas for my wife's car and my Ram and Jeep. With her getting the EV6, we were able to get a car with decent cargo capacity and use it for damn near all local drives and errands. My Ram was only used for hauling the travel trailer and trips to stores like Costco and Home Depot where we needed more space.

We routinely got 250-70 miles on a charge, so a bit less than advertised, but we both have a heavy foot and that acceleration kills range, just as with an ICE vehicle. But we really only took it on a long drive that we routintely make to see family in Missouri.

Fast Charger stops in Nashville, Clarksville, Paduch, Mt. Vernon, and O'Fallon are close enough that we don't have to worry, and we have options. Charging it took 18 minutes to get to 80% charge, which was enough to get to the next stop (or leapfrog to the next one). Yeah, food options generally sucked, but with the 800v charging architecture in the car, we weren't there long. Just bathroom, and grab a coffee, tea, or whatever.

If we have concerns over traffic, weather, or need the flexibility in not having to worry about recharging/refueling, we take my truck. Simple, easy. We have options. I don't see us EVER going pure EV simply because EV's do NOT do it all. Perhaps one day, they will, but today is not that day. I understand the reason behind the mandate - to reduce dependence on oil and emit less into the atmosphere. Both are good goals, but the approach with the EV mandate simply won't work in any kind of reasonable timeframe.

The tax credit, which we did get because of it's price, wasn't a factor in our choice. We paid under MSRP for the car at a time when many others were paying sticker or more. We didn't HAVE to buy. She wanted an EV because she wanted to reduce our need for buying gas and that dependence on oil. Nothing factual. No analytics as to how much we'd reduce our need. She wanted it. And she makes more than enough to do that.

We looked at Teslas and the interior build quality looked like a bad Ikea, the screens were too small of fonts for her to read, and the dealer was an oaf. We learned more and more EV's came to market. She liked the EV6, it's 300 mile range, and the price. So we did it.

We installed a home charger (Level 2) on an unused electric dryer circuit (so not much draw on the grid) and got a tax credit on that for some reason as well. We do pay more on our registration because we don't use gas, so Alabama adds a surcharge for EV's to get that a portion of that $$ for road use. Whether that's where it actually goes, not sure. But they take it.

I see where we're at as being comparable to where we were with ICE cars back in the 40's and 50's. Getting more numerous, but the infrastructure was not quite ready. Interstates came. More fueling locations came. Those "Last gas for 100 miles" signs disappeared. Electric infrastructure isn't there yet. Vehicle range is getting better. Batteries are getting more efficient and different minerals/chemicals are being researched to reduce damage the environment.

EV's are NOT perfect. They are NOT THE solution. They are an option, an alternative, for those that want it. Some days we still get range anxiety on a long drive, though with my wife's new EV, range IS better than the Kia. But I sometimes still shake my head thinking "why did we do this?" But my wife wanted to go EV, and that's fine with me. It gives us options, and my truck still runs great and hauls our trailer anywhere we choose to take it.

Options are great. Chevy Cruze to Lambo Huracan. Hyundai Sante Fe to Ford F450. We run the gamut here with options. Powertrain is just another one now. Those options can spur competition and innovation. And I find that very interesting thinking about what improvements can be made that'll be good for everybody.

Drive a Vette. Drive a Tesla. Drive a pickup. Drive a go-cart. Ride a bike. Do what works for you. If it doesn't work for you, find something else that does.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Everybody knows that the Tesla is fast in a straight line. It's faster than the rest of the SUVs. I don't think that was really in question.

However, if you want something absolutely entertaining and hilarious, go to about 16:15 in this video.

GrandSportC3, pay close attention. Do you want a lesson on why PERFORMANCE isn't measured by 2 lines on a spec sheet? Do you want to see why, exactly, the Tesla wouldn't "run circles" around the BMW? Do you want to see the difference between a well designed performance vehicle ... and a basic piece of shit with a lot of horsepower?

Here you go. Try to learn something.



I REALLY wish they would have turned around and made it back to back stops. The Tesla would have run out of runway if it had to do it a second time.

PERFORMANCE!!!!!!!!

Equally skilled drivers, a Model Y Performance will post better lap times on a road course than a X5, guaranteed. Yes, there are many components to performance and all components combined make the Model Y a better performing car. The Model Y will post better lap times and run better times at the 1/4 mile. BTW, the Model X is almost 1000 lbs heavier than the Model Y..

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Onebadcad

If I could get one of these, it may sway my attitude towards telsa:

https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/roadster

We will see.. I'm certain that once the Roadster is released, it will blow anything else out of the water in the top trim.

[Onebadcad]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

We will see.. I'm certain that once the Roadster is released, it will blow anything else out of the water in the top trim.

If I get one, I am debadging and replacing with Corvette crossed flags emblems!!

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Onebadcad

If I get one, I am debadging and replacing with Corvette crossed flags emblems!!

Nobody knows what the price will be for the top trim.. With cold thrusters etc., I can't see how it could be under $1M but I'd expect a low 7 second 1/4 mile time. Certainly not a car that would be legal at the drag strip except for private track rentals.