The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread

[Bruze]

Originally Posted by GTOguy

Nobody who knows what time it is can answer this. Serious. Because there is no upside these days. From 1890-1912, the upside was ease of starting/operation, particularly for women. Kettering's invention of the electric starter in 1912 changed all that. Ten years after that, the EV's were all but gone. Same issues then as now: need a charge source, charge time was long (overnight), batteries were toxic, and range was short. And expense. You could buy a Ford Model T for 1/5 the price of an EV, put 10 gallons of gas in it, and run all day long, with a range of 250 miles plus per tankful.

Yeah I know there is no upside, but I like to get to the root of things, so that should always be the first question for EV humpers.

Like Republicans fighting over Obamacare back in the day: "We can't afford it." WRONG RESPONSE.

It should be: "It's socialized medicine and we are opposed to that because it is oppressive and never works long-term."

Plus, there's always this below. FWIW, the universe is considered to be "a closed system."

[theandies]

Until EV's can do this and give me 400 miles of range and I don't have to hunt for a charging station to only hope it's not broke. I'm not interested.
It's really that simple

[Frankie the Fink]

Frankly, I'm tired of hearing about them; especially from the ravings of self-righteous zealots that swear they are saving acres of money and trees and the planet by over-paying for a battery on wheels. And extra especially hate hearing from Elon Musk ass kissers, but I forgive those because they prob have his chip in their heads...

I'm just sayin'

[Bill]

[erickpl]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Since I have been somewhat considering an EV as my commuter I have been keeping track of days that an EV wouldn't have worked (or would have caused a major headache). Outside of the obvious karting trips, I had another this week.

Had another pop up on Wednesday. I drove to work (40 miles) and then found out that I had to go visit a company for work unexpectedly. Distance: just over 300 miles in addition to my morning commute to the middle of nowhere KY. Go ahead and search Madisonville, KY to see how many places there are to charge nearby.

I hopped in the S6, averaged 76mph, and made it without stopping. Filled up in the evening and made it back with a whole lot of gas to spare the next day. Again, not a long trip, but something that you couldn't do in a Tesla short of adding a charging stop in each direction.

EDIT: Just for the hell of it, I just looked at the Tesla trip calculator. It adds almost 5 hours to the trip... and includes driving an hour in the wrong direction (to Kuttawa, KY, whatever the hell that is) to sit for another hour to charge just so you can make it back to Louisville to stop and charge again. This didn't even take into account the mileage of driving around in the evening, etc.

https://www.tesla.com/trips#/?v=M3_2...78,-84.1916069

What is a very simple and easy down and back trip in any ICE car becomes a 13 hour nightmare sitting for hours in parking lots in the rain in a Tesla. As I have said. My objection is not hate. It is not "fear" like that 1 asshat seems to think. It is a very simple truth that as it stands, EVs cannot do even the basic things that ICE cars have been able to do for decades. When they can actually do something beyond being an in-town commuter, let me know.

Just as a point of reference, there are Tesla superchargers not far from there at Patti's Settlement on I-24. Paducah has Electrify American high speed chargers too, about 1/2 mile off the highway. When we go to see family from where we are, we will stop in Paducah, grab lunch and charge when we take the EV. But since we do stuff for my dad when we go, including trips to bigger stores and handle things, we take my truck just as often. Time difference for us is only about 1 hour longer in the EV versus my Ram (from N. Alabama to St. Louis).

It's getting better, but as an EV owner, I also fully realize that they are NOT for everybody nor are they for every task.

[Mick]

Originally Posted by erickpl

Just as a point of reference, there are Tesla superchargers not far from there at Patti's Settlement on I-24. Paducah has Electrify American high speed chargers too, about 1/2 mile off the highway. When we go to see family from where we are, we will stop in Paducah, grab lunch and charge when we take the EV. But since we do stuff for my dad when we go, including trips to bigger stores and handle things, we take my truck just as often. Time difference for us is only about 1 hour longer in the EV versus my Ram (from N. Alabama to St. Louis).

It's getting better, but as an EV owner, I also fully realize that they are NOT for everybody nor are they for every task.

GS will be here imminently to tell you how completely wrong you are!

[LATB]

Time difference for us is only about 1 hour longer in the EV versus my Ram

Plenty of time for a hot meal.

[Aerovette]

I might buy an EV if the charging stations had titty bars.

I would at least see some value in wasting that hour.

[Rodnok1]

Originally Posted by Aerovette

I might buy an EV if the charging stations had titty bars.

I would at least see some value in wasting that hour.

Now that's a hell of a marketing idea.

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by Rodnok1

Now that's a hell of a marketing idea.

Call them "The Charging Station".

Fellas, put your hands together for Evie. We've got Evie on the mainstage. Coming up next for you is Tessie.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Mick

GS will be here imminently to tell you how completely wrong you are!

Never said that EVs are for everyone. Those who don't eat on road trips to be 1.5 hours faster in 1000 miles should not get an EV. Those who frequently haul heavy trailers long distance should not get one. Those who often drive over 250 miles in a day should not get one. Those who can't charge at home or work shouldn't get one.
Other than those living in an apartment, which is maybe 30% of the population, the remaining criteria applies to maybe 5 - 10% of the population at best.

[Mick]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Never said that EVs are for everyone. Those who don't eat on road trips to be 1.5 hours faster in 1000 miles should not get an EV. Those who frequently haul heavy trailers long distance should not get one. Those who often drive over 250 miles in a day should not get one. Those who can't charge at home or work shouldn't get one.
Other than those living in an apartment, which is maybe 30% of the population, the remaining criteria applies to maybe 5 - 10% of the population at best.

A little over 6 hours! You're slipping!

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Mick

A little over 6 hours! You're slipping!

WTF??? I drove 920 miles and charged 2 hours and 1 minute. You'll spend at least 30 minutes fueling and bathroom in 920 miles.. Difference is 1.5 hours max.
I have the trip on video... so I can proof it. Even if you don't use the bathroom at all in 13+ hours of driving (which is of course unrealistic unless you severely dehydrate yourself), you'll still need at least 15 minutes of fueling.
Difference can't be more than 2 hours as that is the total time I spent charging in 920 miles.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Never said that EVs are for everyone. Those who don't eat on road trips to be 1.5 hours faster in 1000 miles should not get an EV. Those who frequently haul heavy trailers long distance should not get one. Those who often drive over 250 miles in a day should not get one. Those who can't charge at home or work shouldn't get one.

It's still amusing that you keep adding in the idiotic exaggerations and straight up fallacies in an attempt to minimize any opposition.

I eat every meal on a road trip... You add that time because you are absolutely incapable of admitting the problem, you try to justify it by claiming that stopping for an hour at a time at McDonald's, Taco Bell, and gas stations so you can eat a gourmet f-ing Gordita from a different state is somehow a normal thing. It's not.

As for trailers... it doesn't have to be frequently. It doesn't have to be heavy. It doesn't have to be long distances. If you tow anything beyond that tiny little yard trailer, EVER, EVs are useless. It doesn't have to be "often". If you EVER drive more than 250 miles, EVs become a massive inconvenience. You are limited to your bubble. Period.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

the remaining criteria applies to maybe 5 - 10% of the population at best.

How in the hell are you so completely incapable of seeing outside of your tiny little Florida bubble? You really think that only 5% of the population does any of the things above?

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

WTF??? I drove 920 miles and charged 2 hours and 1 minute. You'll spend at least 30 minutes fueling and bathroom in 920 miles.. Difference is 1.5 hours max.
I have the trip on video... so I can proof it. Even if you don't use the bathroom at all in 13+ hours of driving (which is of course unrealistic unless you severely dehydrate yourself), you'll still need at least 15 minutes of fueling.
Difference can't be more than 2 hours as that is the total time I spent charging in 920 miles.

Let's not forget those overnight charges, having to make sure that you stay somewhere that offers that. Making sure that they are working and not being used by someone else, and all of the other crap involved.

On my last trip, there was a guy in the hotel lobby pissed off that the charger spots were already taken and he couldn't charge. Tough shit. I actually sat down just to watch. It was hilarious. My favorite part was when he called around to other hotels to see if they had available chargers and none did.

You planned everything to the letter, every stop, every break, every minute and it still took you 15% longer than it would take me to hop in a car completely unplanned and drive to where I was going. I can stop at any point for any amount of time. If I need to take a piss break at a rest stop, I do. If I want a burger, I get one without having to research nearby chargers.

On the other hand, your entire trip revolves around trying to get your car to the next stop. That sounds like an absolutely miserable existence.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Let's not forget those overnight charges, having to make sure that you stay somewhere that offers that. Making sure that they are working and not being used by someone else, and all of the other crap involved.

On my last trip, there was a guy in the hotel lobby pissed off that the charger spots were already taken and he couldn't charge. Tough shit. I actually sat down just to watch. It was hilarious. My favorite part was when he called around to other hotels to see if they had available chargers and none did.

You planned everything to the letter, every stop, every break, every minute and it still took you 15% longer than it would take me to hop in a car completely unplanned and drive to where I was going. I can stop at any point for any amount of time. If I need to take a piss break at a rest stop, I do. If I want a burger, I get one without having to research nearby chargers.

On the other hand, your entire trip revolves around trying to get your car to the next stop. That sounds like an absolutely miserable existence.

I still only charged for 2 hours and 1 minute in 920 miles, so it is impossible to be over 1 hours and 45 minutes faster with gas.. Sure, slower charging vehicles may take significantly longer on road trips but most Teslas charge super fast and you you stick with 250kw chargers, charging time is very very reasonable. Some people use different charging strategy where they stop more times but only charge 15 to 20 minutes. I prefer longer charges to take advantage of the time that we are eating. Most Tesla owners only charge 15 to 20 mins per stop but stop more frequently. I never could see myself stopping every 130 - 140 miles.. Not for me.. 180 - 240 miles per charge is my preferred distance on a charge, even if that means 35 to 45 minutes per stop. I want to eat my food in peace. Don't want to hurry up or eat in the car and get food stains in the car.

I also pick Hotels that have chargers and I make sure that the chargers are working and sufficient of them before I book the Hotel (Plugshare shows reliability ratings of a particular charger and number of charge ports). Never had an issue with Hotel charging.

[Steve_R]

Serious question: What do you do if you get to one of those planned meal/charging locations and all of the Tesla chargers are occupied?

I choose hotels based on where I want to stay, not what charging infrastructure it has in the parking lot. In Moab where I go for business I stay at a Homewood Suites in the middle of town so I can walk to most restaurants. There are no Tesla chargers there.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

Serious question: What do you do if you get to one of those planned meal/charging locations and all of the Tesla chargers are occupied?

Tesla Nav will tell you. You just pick another charger. There are sufficient chargers on all major routes, so you can pick another one.
Tesla knows how many cars are currently navigating to a particular charger and it knows if there will be one available when you get there. If the charger is expected to be fully in use, the charger will show with a CLOCK symbol on top of it which means fully occupied. You can then choose a different charging location.
In 60k Tesla miles and a total of 9000 road trip miles, I never had to wait at a Tesla Supercharger and I drove all across the Southern US and all over Florida.
Many major Hotel chains now have chargers at most locations. Home 2 Suites, Cambria, Double Tree etc..

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

180 - 240 miles per charge is my preferred distance on a charge, even if that means 35 to 45 minutes per stop.

...and I can go 500+ miles. With 4 people. With a trailer. Through the mountains. In freezing weather. And I can do it with 0 planning whatsoever. I can change my route on the fly if I see traffic with 0 planning. I can stop when and where I want. If I need to take a piss, I hit a rest stop. If I want a burger, I get one at any place I want.

Stopping for 35-45 minutes every couple of hours, and having to plan those stops around places that have not only the chargers but whatever it is that you are doing to try to justify the stop is absurd.

You can keep trying to justify it however you want. You can minimize it however you want. The simple fact is that if you are in an EV, your entire trip revolves around your car. The fact that you felt the need to make a video about the experience of a trip that I have made about 6 times times this year without even thinking about it pretty much sums it up. My cars simply do what they do and take me where I want to go without drama. My life does not revolve around my car.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Tesla Nav will tell you. You just pick another charger. There are sufficient chargers on all major routes, so you can pick another one.
Tesla knows how many cars are currently navigating to a particular charger and it knows if there will be one available when you get there. If the charger is expected to be fully in use, the charger will show with a CLOCK symbol on top of it which means fully occupied. You can then choose a different charging location.
In 60k Tesla miles and a total of 9000 road trip miles, I never had to wait at a Tesla Supercharger and I drove all across the Southern US and all over Florida.
Many major Hotel chains now have chargers at most locations. Home 2 Suites, Cambria, Double Tree etc..

I stop at any exit.