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Old 12-17-2012, 10:49am   #81
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I did not provide my opinion.
My question was just that, a question. Not a statement of your position.

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Your absolute inability to compromise on guns laws will be your undoing.
I'm in agreement here. If everyone digs in their heels, nothing will be accomplished. It never is.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:50am   #82
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Can anyone here think of a way that this could have been prevented?

Guns being banned would not have...

If there was a death penalty for all murders that used a gun, would this even matter to someone who is suicidal?

I can't think of anything that would have prevented this, possibly some one else can?
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:51am   #83
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It should be at least as hard to get a gun license as it is to get a drivers license. People should have to pass mental screenings and loop holes that allow anyone to buy a gun at a show should be closed.
I do not have a problem with background checks for gun purchases. To buy a gun at a gun show in Texas I have to go through the same check that I do to buy a gun in a gun store. I do not find it onerous. I do not find licensing for a CHL to be a problem. I find the class overly long, extremely boring and overkill, but the background check, though it could be sped up, doesn't actually bother me. I believe that we have significant mental health screening issues that are not just dealing with gun ownership...

All that said, the 2nd Amendment guarantees our right to bear arms and you're all for licensing, background checks, identification, mental health screening, etc.

But someone wants to ask for an ID to vote and you think that violates someone's rights?
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:52am   #84
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Originally Posted by lander View Post
Ok, I'll take the trolls bait.

What law would have prevented what happened Friday?
I'm not proposing anything except that some options should be looked at and not dismissed out of hand as a matter of course. What happened Friday was reprehensible and I think everyone can agree to that. IF there is something that might help prevent it happening again, it should be explored. Obviously, the right wing is the side which has the most experience with guns, and the only place from which a reasonably/politcally acceptable proposal of curbing gun violence might arise. Anything coming from the left is routinely dismissed as "trying to take our guns away". Is there any acceptable middle ground?
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:54am   #85
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Originally Posted by island14 View Post
Can anyone here think of a way that this could have been prevented?

Guns being banned would not have...

If there was a death penalty for all murders that used a gun, would this even matter to someone who is suicidal?

I can't think of anything that would have prevented this, possibly some one else can?
Prevented? 100% guaranteed? Nope. Not possible. China bans guns and someone did it with a knife on the same day.

But if we take a closer look at mental health issues in this country we might be able to identify and deal with some of the people that commit these acts before they have a chance.

And if we get rid of the "gun free zones" we might give those being attacked a fighting chance.

Banning guns will have zero affect, other than giving some people the feeling of being safer while actually making people less safe...
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:55am   #86
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Still waiting on just one proposal from the liberal viewpoint on a common ground solution that would have prevented this tragic event.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:56am   #87
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Originally Posted by bierbelly View Post
I'm not proposing anything except that some options should be looked at and not dismissed out of hand as a matter of course. What happened Friday was reprehensible and I think everyone can agree to that. IF there is something that might help prevent it happening again, it should be explored. Obviously, the right wing is the side which has the most experience with guns, and the only place from which a reasonably/politcally acceptable proposal of curbing gun violence might arise. Anything coming from the left is routinely dismissed as "trying to take our guns away". Is there any acceptable middle ground?

So you are simply a troll and have nothing to contribute to this discussion.

Noted.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:57am   #88
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Originally Posted by bierbelly View Post
I'm not proposing anything except that some options should be looked at and not dismissed out of hand as a matter of course. What happened Friday was reprehensible and I think everyone can agree to that. IF there is something that might help prevent it happening again, it should be explored. Obviously, the right wing is the side which has the most experience with guns, and the only place from which a reasonably/politcally acceptable proposal of curbing gun violence might arise. Anything coming from the left is routinely dismissed as "trying to take our guns away". Is there any acceptable middle ground?
Yes, there could be a middle ground. Admit "gun-free zones" simply render the entire area a helpless-victim playground for psychopaths and we're on our way. For starters.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:58am   #89
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It's not nice to think about, but I don't think there is a "solution" to this problem.

As far as personal property goes, people just accept that if someone is really determined, they will get in your car or home.
Alarm systems, dogs, guns...these reduce your risk, but people generally accept that there is still a chance.

I see this as being no different.
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:00am   #90
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be able to defend yourself and those around you.

these cowards pick the weak and defenseless. they don't wander into a police station or FBI HQ. they give up or kill themselves at the first sign of resistance.
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:01am   #91
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I find the class overly long, extremely boring and overkill
Maybe because you're well versed in gun handling and ownership? Would the class be overly long, extremely boring and overkill if you were a complete neophyte?
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:05am   #92
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Maybe because you're well versed in gun handling and ownership? Would the class be overly long, extremely boring and overkill if you were a complete neophyte?
In many ways, yes. It is nearly impossible to fail, even without really learning anything.

There is so much information that the pieces that are truly important get muddled. The test at the end is a joke. (at least in Texas)

The information that you truly need to know could easily be covered in a few hours. Cut the class in half and you would still have a six hour class that covered everything necessary.

Several hours of our class was the instructor telling "cop" stories to fill time. There is a certain amount of information that is mandated. And there is an amount of time that is mandated. And the amount of information isn't nearly enough to fill the amount of time.
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:06am   #93
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Originally Posted by bierbelly View Post
I'm not proposing anything except that some options should be looked at and not dismissed out of hand as a matter of course. What happened Friday was reprehensible and I think everyone can agree to that. IF there is something that might help prevent it happening again, it should be explored. Obviously, the right wing is the side which has the most experience with guns, and the only place from which a reasonably/politcally acceptable proposal of curbing gun violence might arise. Anything coming from the left is routinely dismissed as "trying to take our guns away". Is there any acceptable middle ground?
CT has some of the Toughest gun laws in the country. The shooter was refused a gun legally so he stole his mothers, Which were not kept locked up by law, and went on his rampage.

Also where Guns are almost completely outlawed violence is a daily occurrence. More people are killed every two week in Chicago than were kill in CT. Yet

Lastly Look at the state that have relaxed Gun Laws VS those with tough laws. Most of the relaxed states have Low crime rates.

It's not the GUN laws that are the problem. It's the people. You can never prevent a nut case like the CT shooter from killing. He will use a gun, Knife or poison if he really wants to kill.

What you can prevent is the weak from being victimized by the Evil Among us by allowing them to arm and defend themselves.

What I find laughable is that the Left is decrying these and other murders but since 1995 they have known that the single biggest contributor to crime was single mother households yet they have done NOTHING to try and curb it's growth rate.
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:06am   #94
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I wonder how many people think there has been an escalation in mass shootings in recent years/decades...
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:09am   #95
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CT has some of the Toughest gun laws in the country. The shooter was refused a gun legally so he stole his mothers, Which were not kept locked up by law, and went on his rampage.

Also where Guns are almost completely outlawed violence is a daily occurrence. More people are killed every two week in Chicago than were kill in CT. Yet

Lastly Look at the state that have relaxed Gun Laws VS those with tough laws. Most of the relaxed states have Low crime rates.

It's not the GUN laws that are the problem. It's the people. You can never prevent a nut case like the CT shooter from killing. He will use a gun, Knife or poison if he really wants to kill.

What you can prevent is the weak from being victimized by the Evil Among us by allowing them to arm and defend themselves.

What I find laughable is that the Left is decrying these and other murders but since 1995 they have known that the single biggest contributor to crime was single mother households yet they have done NOTHING to try and curb it's growth rate.

Even in this case, where it is someone within the home, having them locked up wouldn't have made a bit of difference.
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:09am   #96
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Maybe because you're well versed in gun handling and ownership? Would the class be overly long, extremely boring and overkill if you were a complete neophyte?
Actually, for the complete neophyte, I'd advise them to take additional training. It's impossible to cover all the things one should be really well versed in such a short class, at least that was my experience. The class I took was about 3 hours of lecture with Q&A, and then about four hours at the range. Yes, I (and my wife and nephew) was bored at times but two of my friends who also attended were very much neophytes and they were probably operating on overload, although both enjoyed it very much and had a great time. I learned quite a bit in the classroom portion, mainly having to do with the finer points of Missouri law as it pertains to CCW.
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:10am   #97
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I wonder how many people think there has been an escalation in mass shootings in recent years/decades...
Everyone that only watches the news and uses it as their only source of information. That is how it is/will be portrayed after all.
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:11am   #98
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Even in this case, where it is someone within the home, having them locked up wouldn't have made a bit of difference.
I have two Adult kids who come in and out of the house. If ONE of them had issues like the shooter the guns woudl be either locked up or out of the house.
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:13am   #99
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Maybe because you're well versed in gun handling and ownership? Would the class be overly long, extremely boring and overkill if you were a complete neophyte?

At least in NY state yes: When the pre issue class so you could get a NYS CCWP started mid 70s I as a NRA certified pistol instructor used to do the class. It started out as only a couple hours. Due to NYS stupid/stringent laws you cannot basically touch a handgun without a pistol permit.(so no live firing)

The Albany county judge that started the safety course back then gave us a curriculum and interviewed us before we could do the course. Over time this course has evolved to the point that it now takes two 4 hour classes. It is as boring as hell as there is just so much you can do and all you end up doing is going over the same stuff infinitum!


Edit I believe the powers that be here in the ultra liberal peoples republic of NY have made the course this way is to stop as many people as possible from getting a permit (which is needed to even posses a handgun, let alone carry.) The hoops they make you jump through are many and every now and then they come up with a new one or make an older one more stringent.

Last edited by 6spdC6; 12-17-2012 at 11:25am. Reason: Added
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:15am   #100
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Prevented? 100% guaranteed? Nope. Not possible. China bans guns and someone did it with a knife on the same day.
And it appears that all 22 kids are going to live. That keeps being left out of the discussion. You have a much greater chance of surviving a knife attack that a gun shot wound.

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But if we take a closer look at mental health issues in this country we might be able to identify and deal with some of the people that commit these acts before they have a chance.
One of the benefits of Obama care is that these people may actually be able to get some help.

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And if we get rid of the "gun free zones" we might give those being attacked a fighting chance.
I disagree. I can assure you that if every teacher in the country started bringing guns to their classrooms, the accidental discharges, kids finding the guns and shooting classmates, etc would be disastrous.

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Banning guns will have zero affect, other than giving some people the feeling of being safer while actually making people less safe...
Then its time for a serious discussion - and participation - from the right with real regulations that could make a change. The longer you wait, the more severe the regulations will be.
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