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10-29-2012, 9:52am | #21 | ||||||||
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If you realize there is no way for you to do that, then you will understand it is not a choice. If however you think you may be aroused, then perhaps you need to reassess your sexual identity. Quote:
And they are going to get them. You will find that you are on the wrong side of history. |
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10-29-2012, 10:44am | #22 | |||||||
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But really, all bowling green has is the Museum and the plant, bowling green is corvette capital USA....so having a bunch of corvette enthusiasts is common. Thankfully Pensacola isnt Homo-Central, so its not normal to drive up on the beach and be surrounded by rainbow flags and general gayness. Its widely accepted that come memorial day weekend, the residents of Pensacola have to go to some other beach, elsewhere... |
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10-29-2012, 10:56am | #23 | ||||||
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im good with equal womens rights, I think women should have every opportunity that a man would...and should not be handicapped or anything, simply for being a woman.
im all for equal black rights, I think that no black person should be singled out simply due ot their skin color or because they dont know who their daddy is... So now we have given equal rights to blacks, women, asians, asian black women...the color of ones skin, nor the lack of a penis..will keep a person down. So empployment, travel, lending, housing, etc....no discrimination. Now, take a gay black woman, she can get hired anywhere as long as she qualifies, she can get a loan anywhere she qualifies, she can shopw anywhere she likes....FREEDOM. But the fact is, she wants to get marries...well thats great, Marriage is a HOly union between a man and a woman. Well, she dont qualify, as she wants to marry a woman... Thats called "tough shit"...because you dont always get what you want, and she not entitled to it. |
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10-29-2012, 11:03am | #24 | ||||||
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10-29-2012, 11:32am | #25 | ||||||
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10-29-2012, 1:24pm | #26 | |||||||
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I don't believe in god and can get married. Marriage is a property contract recognized by the state. Its nothing more. If you chose to give it religious overtones, then that is your doing. The religious element is only a recent development. Christians considered marriage a private matter outside of the church. In fact, the church did not make it a religious matter until 1563 at the Council of Trent. Marriage in Modern Europe and America The Protestant Reformation of the 16th century rejected the prevailing concept of marriage along with many other Catholic doctrines. Martin Luther declared marriage to be "a worldly thing . . . that belongs to the realm of government", and a similar opinion was expressed by Calvin. The English Puritans in the 17th century even passed an Act of Parliament asserting "marriage to be no sacrament" and soon thereafter made marriage purely secular. It was no longer to be performed by a minister, but by a justice of the peace. The Restoration abolished this law and reverted to the old system, but the Puritans brought their concept of marriage to America where it survived. Luther and other Protestants also reduced the number of marriage impediments. Affinity and spiritual affinity were no longer considered obstacles, and consanguinity was interpreted much more narrowly than before. Thus, even marriages between first cousins became possible. The Catholic church, in response to the Protestant challenge, took its stand in the Council of Trent and, in 1563, confirmed its previous doctrines. Indeed, it now demanded that all marriages take place before a priest and two witnesses. Among other things, this virtually eliminated not only secret marriages, but also the formerly common informal marriages. These, similar to the old Roman marriages by usus, were based simply on mutual consent without formal ceremony. In England they came to be called "common law marriages", and since Henry VIII had broken with Rome, they continued to be permitted until 1753, when the Church of England was put in charge of all marriages (including those of Catholics, but excluding those of Quakers and Jews). This development did not affect the English colonies, however, and thus common law marriages remained possible in America. (As recently as 1970 they were still recognized in several states.) In most of Europe marriages continued to require a religious ceremony until the French Revolution in 1792 introduced the compulsory civil marriage. Germany followed suit in the 19th century when Bismarck diminished the influence of the Catholic church. Eventually, marriage before some magistrate or government official became the only valid form of marriage in most of the Western world. Religious weddings were still permitted, but only after the civil ceremony had taken place. Another contested issue was that of divorce. In opposition to Catholic doctrine, the Protestant Reformers did not believe that marriage was insoluble, but favored divorce under special circumstances. The Puritan John Milton in his Doctrine and Discipline of Divorce (1643) even advocated self-divorce without the involvement of either church or government. For him, marriage rested entirely on the full compatibility of both partners. Where mutual love was lacking, marriage was a sham and had to be dissolved. However, this philosophy was too far ahead of its time. The English Parliament began to grant some divorces, but the procedure was so cumbersome and expensive that few couples could take advantage of it. History of Marriage in Western Civilization |
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10-29-2012, 2:21pm | #27 | |||||||
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Does holding hands offend me? No. Does a quick kiss offend me? No. Doesn't matter if they're straight or gay...these are just simple signs of affection, in my eyes. If that makes me desensitized, so be it. But I felt this way long before I came to SoCal and way before my daughter came out, so those are not even contributing factors to my stance. |
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10-29-2012, 9:13pm | #28 | ||||||
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Ms. NEED-A VETTE & Mr. zz4vetteguy, I understand and respect your position on legalizing gay marriage; can you understand and respect the position that asking Christians to accept a position that puts us at odds with our government and God's Word is not a position we want to be put in? Which is what "legalized gay marriage" does to us. This is not a troll post, this is the real issue, I'd love a reasoned response, this has been a good and useful dialog so far.
(I'll read it in the morning, I'm off to bed). |
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10-29-2012, 9:34pm | #29 | ||||||
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Honestly, who gives a feck?
With all the other bullshit going on, the country's economy being driven down the drain, being attacked on sovereign soil, etc., and THIS is your worry?? I tell ya, this is one of the LAST things I'm concerned about, doesn't even make the bottom of my Give-A-Shit list. |
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10-29-2012, 10:19pm | #30 | ||||||||
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I don't care what it's called. And, quite frankly, neither does my daughter. But I have raised her to understand that you give a little and you take a little...find some common ground. She's well aware that the uncompromising people within the gay community are only making it tougher on themselves. Right now, my daughter is thankful that the Air Force will recognize their domestic partnership, once it's filed. At least they won't have to hide or be constantly living in fear of being spotted. Granted, they aren't given the same rights as an opposite sex couple: Andrea cannot be added to her insurance, nor will they be granted separation pay while she's deployed. But they're happy in that they can live their life as a couple, rather than hide it. They're not looking to flaunt it or rub it in anyone's faces. I don't even think that any of her coworkers even really know. It's just not a discussion she has in her workplace. I'll give you another example. I have a lesbian friend that just celebrated 18 years with her partner yesterday. They filed their domestic partnership together here in California about 12 years ago. One side of the family is supportive, the other is not. If something tragic were to happen, the disapproving family could do things such as keep my friend from the hospital, funeral, etc. It's ridiculous. Could you even imagine spending your life with the person you loved, only to be discarded like nothing more than a stranger or intruder in the end? They've built a life together. Without their union being filed with the state, things like savings, life insurance and everything else could be sought out by the family. Even is there was a will, the family could drag things out in court for years without that union having been filed. Call it whatever you'd like. Most people only use the word marriage because marriage gives couples certain protections. Most gay couples are simply looking for those same protections, regardless of what it's called. FWIW, I'm also a Christian. Raised catholic, parochial schools...the whole 9 yards. I converted and became Lutheran about 17 years ago. My daughter was raised Lutheran and believes that her salvation is through Jesus Christ. I happen to believe that she'll be welcomed with open arms when her time comes. Others believe that she won't...and I understand this. It's not my place to judge. (I'm not what you'd call an overly religious person, I know what I believe and I respect other's beliefs. I only mention it because it is possible for a Christian to have their beliefs, while still allowing for compromises when it comes to the LGBT community. The extremists on both sides are making it an issue bigger than it needs to be.) Quote:
Funny thing is, my daughter will be voting for Romney. She knows damn well that Obama isn't going to touch DOMA and that his recent support of gay marriage is just lip service. On the flip side, despite alarmist cries, Romney is not going to make a single move in changing things like Roe v. Wade. Nor is he going to bring back DADT. Like me, she's voting based on fiscal issues, including the sustainability of her own job in the military. Btw, you'll get to meet both Caitlin and Andrea when you meet us for dinner on the 10th. Last edited by NEED-A-VETTE; 10-30-2012 at 2:32am. Reason: Spelling |
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10-29-2012, 10:26pm | #31 | |||||||
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10-29-2012, 10:28pm | #32 | |||||||
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No different from the rest of America thinking that tornadoes only hit trailer parks because, despite a hundred "normal" people standing around, they'll always find that one raging idiot to interview. It's the outrageous and outlandish behavior of some people that stands out, but that doesn't mean it defines the norm. |
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10-29-2012, 10:30pm | #33 | ||||||
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10-29-2012, 10:36pm | #34 | ||||||
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Emailed you.
Specifically the El Guero Canelo looks like what you wanted for a local, good, taco shop? My friend (retired Sheriff Deputy) recommends it highly, amongst LOTS of locals too! Also the Sir Veza's Taco Garage is a great local place too, very car/hot rod oriented. You have my # right? Use it! |
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10-29-2012, 11:46pm | #35 | |||||||
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The tooth fairy is totally legit. You're safe.
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Yeah...I've got your number. I'm not so good at phone calls. I'm more of a texting kinda gal. |
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10-29-2012, 11:50pm | #36 | |||||||
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10-30-2012, 12:08am | #37 | ||||||
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10-30-2012, 1:43am | #38 | ||||||||
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As I mentioned before, to me (I don't speak for everyone), I could care less what it is called. I use marriage as a generic term for two things being joined together, kinda like if I am drinking a soda I will just generically call it a Coke...now I know a Diet Wild Cerry Pepsi, and a Coke are two completely different things, but still I just say I am drinking a Coke... I know, shame on me for making sense, but it would be nice if both sides could just sit down and talk it over like adults and come up with a fair comprimise on both sides, but instead it is the majority of both sides that are screaming and yelling and acting like children and making the whole process harder then it needs to be. |
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10-30-2012, 1:58am | #39 | ||||||
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Craig, as I said, I respect you opion and outlook on the situation (more then some others here) but just to play devils advocate, let me ask your opinion on the the subject I brought up earlier.
I believe that the people who are claiming that Marriage is a religious union, and whole heartedly feel that, beleive that, and live by that are a minority of the people using that "excuse" (I am using that word lightly with lack of a better word at 3am). How is it supposed to be taken seriously that it is a religious union when straight couples who are athiests are married, or people don't want God or religion mentioned at all in their ceromony, they are married by Elvis, or in a Drive thru, a donut shop by a baker who was ordained over the internet, or the Grim Reaper (seriously...no chit, I was watching a show on the Travel Channel about extreme weddings, and one chappel you can get married by the Grim Reaper), or people like Celeberties who are married 17 times, or people who get married and then file for divorce hours later. |
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10-30-2012, 2:43am | #40 | ||||||
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I think the biggest issue here is that most of what the American public sees are the extreme activists on both sides: the LGBT community and the religious community. This is what is flashed across the television in catchy, grab your attention, 30 second sound bites.
However, when you really get down to it, you take my daughter and ZZ4...and really hear them speak and they make sense. They're concise and rational. This is the way I hear all my gay and lesbian friends speak. They're not the activists that you see on television that are pushing for all or nothing. |
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