House to vote on bill abolishing IRS, eliminating income tax.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by VITE1

I am not a fan of a consumption tax because it over burdens the lower income groups since most of their income is spent VS higher income groups where a larger % of income is invested.

I am in favor of a flat tax or graduated flat tax ( where lower income people still pay taxes just to make sure they have skin in the game) It's proven to work in several countries around the world and increases tax compliance simply because there is a lower cost to comply than to try and avoid the tax.

I think you have it wrong.

Joe six pack buys a new lawnmower and his cost is a little more.
Fat cat Carl buys a new yacht and his cost is a lot more.

Everyone has skin in the game.

[6spdC6]

Originally Posted by LATB

I think you have it wrong.

Joe six pack buys a new lawnmower and his cost is a little more.
Fat cat Carl buys a new yacht and his cost is a lot more.

Everyone has skin in the game.

What if both Joe and Carl buy the same thing --- like your example of the new lawnmower.

Do both of them now pay the same total bill?

[LATB]

Originally Posted by 6spdC6

What if both Joe and Carl buy the same thing --- like your example of the new lawnmower.

Do both of them now pay the same total bill?

Yes. Whoever buys a lawnmower pays the same consumption tax.

The difference is, Joe six pack isn’t buying a yacht.

[6spdC6]

Originally Posted by LATB

Yes. Whoever buys a lawnmower pays the same consumption tax.

The difference is, Joe six pack isn’t buying a yacht.

Right you are! But up to the point that Joe Sixpack can't afford to buy something they both pay the same money for what they purchase. Of course its much easier on Carl.

I'm not using words as a weapon but hopefully just common sense experience.

This thing is a Vat tax. Its not just called that by some people, its just having more money Carl can afford to get higher priced items, and of course at that point he pays the more in tax.

[cptlo306]

Originally Posted by 6spdC6

Right you are! But up to the point that Joe Sixpack can't afford to buy something they both pay the same money for what they purchase. Of course its much easier on Carl.

I'm not using words as a weapon but hopefully just common sense experience.

This thing is a Vat tax. Its not just called that by some people, its just having more money Carl can afford to get higher priced items, and of course at that point he pays the more in tax.

It's not a VAT tax. VAT taxes are added throughout the production process as value is added to the product. The FairTax is simply a retail sales tax with prebates.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by 6spdC6

Right you are! But up to the point that Joe Sixpack can't afford to buy something they both pay the same money for what they purchase. Of course its much easier on Carl.

I'm not using words as a weapon but hopefully just common sense experience.

This thing is a Vat tax. Its not just called that by some people, its just having more money Carl can afford to get higher priced items, and of course at that point he pays the more in tax.

Exactly. It's a pure consumption tax. You consume, you pay.

[6spdC6]

Originally Posted by cptlo306

It's not a VAT tax. VAT taxes are added throughout the production process as value is added to the product. The FairTax is simply a retail sales tax with prebates.

OK I will accept that. At some point most everybody reaches a point that they cannot purchase something. At that point the richer will be paying more tax.

[Craig]

I’m not sure why a rich person should be forced to pay more for the same government as a poor person. It’s punishing the rich person for no good reason. Kind of the opposite of fair.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by Craig

I’m not sure why a rich person should be forced to pay more for the same government as a poor person. It’s punishing the rich person for no good reason. Kind of the opposite of fair.

That is the problem with a progressive income tax.

[Dan47]

Originally Posted by Craig

I’m not sure why a rich person should be forced to pay more for the same government as a poor person. It’s punishing the rich person for no good reason. Kind of the opposite of fair.

If we’re talking fair, the government has very little to do and could probably shrink 90% and still have too many employees. Nobody should be paying for this nonsense, it shouldn’t exist as it currently does.

Productive people and industry should be showered with incentives to continue being productive, not taxed. “Productive People Month” with a flag flying above all others.

[VITE1]

Originally Posted by LATB

I think you have it wrong.

Joe six pack buys a new lawnmower and his cost is a little more.
Fat cat Carl buys a new yacht and his cost is a lot more.

Everyone has skin in the game.

Rich people spend less as a percentage of income on food, housing and toys than lower income people. Data over the decades show this to be true.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...the-income-gap

[LATB]

Originally Posted by VITE1

Rich people spend less as a percentage of income on food, housing and toys than lower income people. Data over the decades show this to be true.

Who cares about percentage of income. Wealthy people buy expensive items.

[VITE1]

Originally Posted by LATB

Who cares about percentage of income. Wealthy people buy expensive items.

True. But they save significantly more and then earn income and wealth from those investments. That's how they become wealthy.


Poor people do not have sufficient disposal income to invest. Plus the current tax and welfare state discourage investment, saving and wealth creation by the lower income people.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by VITE1

True. But they save significantly more and then earn income and wealth from those investments. That's how they become wealthy.


Poor people do not have sufficient disposal income to invest. Plus the current tax and welfare state discourage investment, saving and wealth creation by the lower income people.

All true but has little to do with funding the government with a consumption tax vs an income tax.

[VITE1]

Originally Posted by LATB

All true but has little to do with funding the government with a consumption tax vs an income tax.

What a consumption tax will do is reduce revenue since the wealthy will now invest more income and delay buying more toys until their income increases.

I favor a graduated flat tax. Minimum 2% up to 18 % for high income. What this will do in encourage investment across the income range as well as discouraging larger government since those on the bottom now have skin in the game.

Works well in Singapore and HK.

[markids77]

Buddy's heart is in the right place: at least in this instance. Up until a couple years ago he was my pharmacist... it was pretty cool to pick up a prescription and actually talk to my representative!

[LATB]

Originally Posted by VITE1

What a consumption tax will do is reduce revenue since the wealthy will now invest more income and delay buying more toys until their income increases.

I favor a graduated flat tax. Minimum 2% up to 18 % for high income. What this will do in encourage investment across the income range as well as discouraging larger government since those on the bottom now have skin in the game.

Works well in Singapore and HK.

Wealthy people never stop buying toys. Never.

[JRD77VET]

Flat tax on NEW purchases of 15% ( maybe 17%)

Food, clothes pay NO tax. Repair your house? NO tax.

Buy / build NEW house? Taxable

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If we stop wasting money having our nose everywhere ( Ukraine cough, cough, excessive money laundering) , this would work quite well.

[Egnalf]

Originally Posted by LATB

Wealthy people never stop buying toys. Never.

this.

consider a 10% flat tax. someone earning say 40 grand spends most of their disposable money. say 8 grand, they pay 800 in tax.

a dude making 500 grand tucks away 200-250 each year, pays his normal bills andspeds the rest. lets say 100 grand, pays 10 grand tax.

[LATB]

I like the consumption tax.

Buy a candy bar, x%
Six pack, same x%
Bunch of bananas x%
Shotgun, same x%
Refrigerator
Car
Yacht
Jet
All same x%

No income tax
No capital gains tax
No dividend tax
No tax on services

No loopholes
No bullchit
No IRS