[Tailgating POLL] Perhaps VB can settle this physics debate...

[UniqueDoug]

My position: I am driving at 60 mph and somebody comes up on my ass 1 car length away (18 ft). If I can't pull over, I will very slowly reduce my speed to leave more room in front of me, then resume the same speed as when the tailgater came up on my ass.

By doing this, I am taking my increased reaction time (by creating more space) and giving it to the tailgater (in simple terms).

To conceptualize, if you were tailgating me which one of these would be safer and give you more time to react if I had to stop suddenly (due to accident, traffic, whatever). You are still one car length off my ass.

1) I slow from 60-45 mph in 2 seconds,

OR

2) I slow from 60-45 in 4 seconds.


The (dare I say) obvious answer is (2), if you are on my ass 18 feet away at 60mph you will need more than 2 seconds. Your reaction time is 2 seconds, you hit me before you even hit the brake.

SUMMARY: I am able to decelerate at a slower rate (60-45 in 4 seconds) because I left more room to react to stops in front of me.

Relevant data

Distance travelled in 2 seconds (typical reaction time) at 60 mph: 176 feet

Average researched reaction time: 2 seconds

[DJ_Critterus]

Remember your driver's Ed and the driving tests? I know here in FL the manual says to slow down enough to get the driver to pass you or to get yourself into a situation where you can move over.

[UniqueDoug]

Originally Posted by DJ_Critterus

Remember your driver's Ed and the driving tests? I know here in FL the manual says to slow down enough to get the driver to pass you or to get yourself into a situation where you can move over.

I can't move over and there is no where to pass. But I do agree with slowing down safely for the reasons my OP indicated.

[ZipZap]

Originally Posted by UniqueDoug

I can't move over and there is no where to pass. But I do agree with slowing down safely for the reasons my OP indicated.

ICNDT

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by UniqueDoug

My position: I am driving at 60 mph and somebody comes up on my ass 1 car length away (18 ft). If I can't pull over, I will very slowly reduce my speed to leave more room in front of me, then resume the same speed as when the tailgater came up on my ass.

By doing this, I am taking my increased reaction time (by creating more space) and giving it to the tailgater (in simple terms).

To conceptualize, if you were tailgating me which one of these would be safer and give you more time to react if I had to stop suddenly (due to accident, traffic, whatever). You are still one car length off my ass.

1) I slow from 60-45 mph in 2 seconds,

OR

2) I slow from 60-45 in 4 seconds.


The (dare I say) obvious answer is (2), if you are on my ass 18 feet away at 60mph you will need more than 2 seconds. Your reaction time is 2 seconds, you hit me before you even hit the brake.

SUMMARY: I am able to decelerate at a slower rate (60-45 in 4 seconds) because I left more room to react to stops in front of me.

Relevant data

Distance travelled in 2 seconds (typical reaction time) at 60 mph: 176 feet

Average researched reaction time: 2 seconds

If I'm 18 feet away, you aren't being tailgated, just annoyed. Be truthful in your presentation. You shifted the argument FAR from where it started.

[Old Ben]

I would slow down to draw them in closer then hit the brakes because of the animal in the road. I do need a new car and their insurance would be paying for a really nice one.

[UniqueDoug]

Originally Posted by aerovette

If I'm 18 feet away, you aren't being tailgated, just annoyed. Be truthful in your presentation. You shifted the argument FAR from where it started.

the OP has been my premise all along

okay, well at least in this fresh thread you gave me your contention with the two data points.

Summary:

Aero is traveling at 60mph

Aero is 18 feet behind the car ahead of him

Aero claims he is NOT tailgating

According to DOT/NTSB definitions is Aero tailgating???


1) YES

2) NO

I'll let the community answer this, as you seem unable (or unwilling) to grasp the physics from me.

[Old Ben]

Originally Posted by aerovette

If I'm 18 feet away, you aren't being tailgated, just annoyed.

False. Unless you are going 6 mph or less.

[UniqueDoug]

Supplemental information

https://www.dot.state.mn.us/traffice...gating/FAQ.pdf

Please note per source:

How do the DOTS work?

The DOTS are spaced for the simplest and safest use by motorists. When traveling at the posted 55 MPH, under ideal road conditions, a driver should allow two DOTS to be visible between them and the vehicle they are following. This space reflects the recommended three-second following distance at this speed. The project hopes to show people the appropriate visual spacing required to safely follow vehicles on other roadways beyond the project area.

[Louie Detroit]

Throw out a giant bag of marbles behind you and let them spin, crash and burn.

[Aerovette]

Insufferable is the word of the day today.

Against my better judgement, I'm going to go through this again.

When posed with the question, “What would you do if someone was tailgating you” Doug offered that he would slow and create more space between HIS CAR and the car IN FRONT OF his.
I offered that move did NOTHING to get the tailgater off hi sass in in fact would make the situation worse.
Yada yada, fast forward and I made the diagram showing TWO DISTANCES from the car in front of him and pointed out the obvious that the relationship between the tailgater and his car is UNCHANGED by his distance from the car in front of him.
He then switched up the argument to say that it offered him opportunity to reduce his speed at a different rate. If I am maintaining my speed and he slows down, I will hit him. Pure science at work.
The distance between our vehicles does not allow ample room for me to react.
In my latest example, I indicated mph hour speed difference means that if he touches hi brake pedal so I KNOW he is slowing down, in my reaction time of .75 seconds, I will travel 5.4 feet BEFORE I hit my brakes. Therefore, if he is 6 feet in front of me, hits his brakes to drop 5mph and I see them and hit my brakes, I will still hit him. Reaction time, plus deceleration rate is going to put me too close to avoid him.

This does not CHANGE just because the car in FRONT of him is 40 feet away vs 20 feet away. The ONLY relationship that matters is the speed and distance between Doug’s car and the tailgater. Only those two play a role in whether Doug gets rear ended.
What HIS distance and the car in FRONT of him does impact, is whether it becomes a chain reaction that involves that front car.

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by UniqueDoug

the OP has been my premise all along

okay, well at least in this fresh thread you gave me your contention with the two data points.

Summary:

Aero is traveling at 60mph

Aero is 18 feet behind the car ahead of him

Aero claims he is NOT tailgating

According to DOT/NTSB definitions is Aero tailgating???


1) YES

2) NO

I'll let the community answer this, as you seem unable (or unwilling) to grasp the physics from me.

First off, I was being facetious about the 18 feet. It really depends on the speed.

I also am not arguing about whether it is or is not tailgating. The discussion revolves solely around whether INCREASING the distance between Doug and the car IN FRONT of him, alters the situation with the tailgater BEHIND him.

See the diagram I posted.

[UniqueDoug]

Originally Posted by aerovette

Insufferable is the word of the day today.

Against my better judgement, I'm going to go through this again.

When posed with the question, “What would you do if someone was tailgating you” Doug offered that he would slow and create more space between HIS CAR and the car IN FRONT OF his.
I offered that move did NOTHING to get the tailgater off hi sass in in fact would make the situation worse.
Yada yada, fast forward and I made the diagram showing TWO DISTANCES from the car in front of him and pointed out the obvious that the relationship between the tailgater and his car is UNCHANGED by his distance from the car in front of him.
He then switched up the argument to say that it offered him opportunity to reduce his speed at a different rate. If I am maintaining my speed and he slows down, I will hit him. Pure science at work.
The distance between our vehicles does not allow ample room for me to react.
In my latest example, I indicated mph hour speed difference means that if he touches hi brake pedal so I KNOW he is slowing down, in my reaction time of .75 seconds, I will travel 5.4 feet BEFORE I hit my brakes. Therefore, if he is 6 feet in front of me, hits his brakes to drop 5mph and I see them and hit my brakes, I will still hit him. Reaction time, plus deceleration rate is going to put me too close to avoid him.

This does not CHANGE just because the car in FRONT of him is 40 feet away vs 20 feet away. The ONLY relationship that matters is the speed and distance between Doug’s car and the tailgater. Only those two play a role in whether Doug gets rear ended.
What HIS distance and the car in FRONT of him does impact, is whether it becomes a chain reaction that involves that front car.

again with the diagram

yes, you proved once again that at 3 feet behind me there is NOTHING I can do to prevent you from hitting me since you are riding my ass.

Traffic slow down ahead? BAM

Cruise decelerates up hill? BAM

Animal crosses road? BAM

You got the distance SO close and SO dangerous to prove your point

[Mike Mercury]

[UniqueDoug]

Originally Posted by aerovette

First off, I was being facetious about the 18 feet. It really depends on the speed.

I also am not arguing about whether it is or is not tailgating. The discussion revolves solely around whether INCREASING the distance between Doug and the car IN FRONT of him, alters the situation with the tailgater BEHIND him.

See the diagram I posted.

Yes it does depend on speed. Your speed is 60.

Ok, so we have established that 18 feet at 60mph IS tailgating.

Finally appears we have reached some common ground.

NOW on to reaction time, please see accompanying source material.

How many feet have you traveled in 2 seconds (just below average reaction time) at 60mph?

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by UniqueDoug

again with the diagram

yes, you proved once again that at 3 feet behind me there is NOTHING I can do to prevent you from hitting me since you are riding my ass.

Traffic slow down ahead? BAM

Cruise decelerates up hill? BAM

Animal crosses road? BAM

You got the distance SO close and SO dangerous to prove your point

Pick a distance. You want to use 18 feet? If you drop 5mph 18 feet in front of me, my reaction time won't be measurable, because I most likely won't react. I may take my foot off the gas. You're far enough away that I may not need to unless you full on lock the wheels. I'll simply close the gap a bit or shoot around.

If I have to be constantly tapping my brake and inching up on you, I'm just being a shit bag, but if you are just daydreaming, I'll get close enough that you should get a clue that you are holding up traffic.

The point remains the you will NOT resolve the tailgating issue by increasing the distance between YOU and the car IN FRONT of you.

[Aerovette]

Doug for **** sake. Your argument was that you deal with tailgaters by INCREASING the distance between you and the car IN FRONT of you. Do I need to go search for your statement over there?

That is NOT true. Period. Charts, graphs, law, stopping distance does not matter. Increasing that gap does NOTHING to stop the tailgater. Why the **** is that so hard for you to comprehend.

[z06psi]

Super.

The never ending argument thread.

[Aerovette]

Here is your response...

I can only speak for myself, but picture this.

you are a windy too lane highway marked at 45 mph, you are in a row of vehicles cruising at approximately 50 mph, and have approximately five car links ahead of you.

somebody pulls up on my ass 10 feet away

at that time I will slow down to leave approximately two more car links, then resume cruising at the same speed I was at before, 50 mph. That is the situation where I slow down. Only to combat the physics of having somebody on my ass, because physics deems they have less reaction time because they are too close at 50 mph

slowing down to simply be passive aggressive so they have to go slower, without any dual safety benefit, I would never do that

[UniqueDoug]

Originally Posted by aerovette

Doug for **** sake. Your argument was that you deal with tailgaters by INCREASING the distance between you and the car IN FRONT of you. Do I need to go search for your statement over there?

That is NOT true. Period. Charts, graphs, law, stopping distance does not matter. Increasing that gap does NOTHING to stop the tailgater. Why the **** is that so hard for you to comprehend.

Where is my contention that leaving more space will stop the tailgater? My premise is in the original post, and so far two people agree with my math

I’m leaving more distance, I gain reaction time, I give some of that to you.