Here's a Tesla thread...

[lspencer534]

If you believe the headlines, traditional automobiles are speeding toward a dead end. All those V8s, V6s and turbocharged vehicles we’ve grown to love will soon be replaced by squadrons of clean, whisper-quiet, all-electric vehicles. And if you believe the headlines, the environment will be much better off.

All of this might make sense if electric vehicles, as their supporters claim, were truly likely to reduce air pollution and tackle climate change. But are they?

Widespread adoption of electric vehicles nationwide will likely increase air pollution compared with new internal combustion vehicles. You read that right: More electric cars and trucks will mean more pollution.

That might sound counterintuitive: After all, won’t replacing a 30-year old, smoke-belching Oldsmobile with a new electric vehicle reduce air pollution? Yes, of course. But that’s also where many electric vehicle proponents’ arguments run off the road: They fail to consider just how clean and efficient new internal combustion vehicles are. The appropriate comparison for evaluating the benefits of all those electric vehicle subsidies and mandates isn’t the difference between an electric vehicle and an old gas-guzzler; it’s the difference between an electric car and a new gas car. And new internal combustion engines are really clean. Today’s vehicles emit only about 1% of the pollution than they did in the 1960s, and new innovations continue to improve those engines’ efficiency and cleanliness.

And as for that electric car: The energy doesn’t come from nowhere. Cars are charged from the nation’s electrical grid, which means that they’re only as “clean” as America’s mix of power sources. Those are getting cleaner, but we still generate power mainly by burning fossil fuels: Natural gas is our biggest source of electricity, and is projected to increase. And coal, while still declining, will remain the second largest source of electricity for some time. (Third is nuclear power, which doesn’t generate emissions but has other byproducts that worry some environmentalists.) Even with large increases in wind and solar generation, the EIA (U.S. Energy Information Administration) projects that the nation’s electric generating mix will be just 30% renewable by 2030. Based on that forecast, if the EIA’s projected number of electric vehicles were replaced with new internal combustion vehicles, air pollution would actually decrease—and this holds true even if you include the emissions from oil refineries that manufacture gasoline.

Electric vehicles will reduce greenhouse emissions compared to new internal combustion vehicles. But based on the EIA’s projection of the number of new electric vehicles, the net reduction in CO2 emissions between 2018 and 2050 would be only about one-half of one percent of total forecast U.S. energy-related carbon emissions. Such a small change will have no impact whatsoever on climate, and thus have no economic benefit.

https://www.politico.com/agenda/stor...ronment-000660

[scottycards]

It's probably worthwhile to mention that the author of the Politico article, Jonathan Lesser, works for Continental Economics.

I think it's up to the reader to decide if Mr. Lesser is speaking from a place of neutrality.

Continental Economics, from their website:

An energy and economic consulting firm

And another description of Continental Economics:

Another opponent of clean technology policies is Dr. Jonathan Lesser, president of the utility-backed consulting firm Continental Economics

At any rate, EVs provide a lot of advantages other than ICE vehicles, which have been documented pretty well. Convenience, maintenance, vehicle performance, etc.

I think it's great for consumers to have choices.

[dvarapala]

Solar panels + Tesla Powerwalls FTW.

[JRD77VET]

Something to think about.....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If we were to suddenly adopt a slew of electric vehicles, our current power grid would catastrophically fail.

Look in your own town. Can they local grid support an additional 20% ( or higher) power load draw? Old enough to remember the gas embargo of the 70s? You could only purchase fuel for your vehicle on odd or even days depending on license / inspection stickers If there is a big influx of electric vehicles that need recharging, would the one you use last for two or more days? What if the electrical draw was such that you were only permitted to recharge every 4th day?

Upgrading the electrical grid would require a serious amount of funds. Still willing to "go green" if it hit you in the wallet for an additional 25% or more in additional taxes?

Another thing to look at. What is the environmental impact of the newer technology? The latest generation of batteries require rare earth metals. The only practical way to get enough raw material is extremely large strip mines.

Even if you place the ground back in the hole, it's still not the same.

Does something have to be done? Yes, but all I ask is that you choose wisely and look at the long term impacts in addition to the immediate "gains".

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by JRD77VET

Something to think about.....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If we were to suddenly adopt a slew of electric vehicles, our current power grid would catastrophically fail.

Look in your own town. Can they local grid support an additional 20% ( or higher) power load draw? Old enough to remember the gas embargo of the 70s? You could only purchase fuel for your vehicle on odd or even days depending on license / inspection stickers

Enter the "smart grid." The electric cars and the electric company coordinate to manage the load on the grid.



Solar power and Tesla Powerwalls can also help smooth out the peaks in demand.

[boracayjohnny]

The energy doesn’t come from nowhere.

Now wait just a minute there, Mister you are so wrong. Milk and eggs also come from nowhere and are available at the grocery store.

[Olustee bus]

I just hope that in 20 years, the electric cars will make the 2020 mid-engine vette cheaper for collectors like me!

[A/E]

We just entered into World War III

Iran's Oil Embargo will make Gas Prices Skyrocket to $10 a gallon for piss water domestic sand tar crude that doesn't burn clean



The Time is NOW for Electric Cars to takeover the Sheeple's Transportation Needs

[Stevedore]

Power shortages will be no problem: We'll only drive on odd or even days depending on our license #, birthday, address, etc.

Seriously, I think that electric vehicles are the future, or a very big part of it. A Tesla, or whatever, would meet 99.9% of my driving needs. I can't recall a time when I drove 200 miles in one day. Not the case for everyone, I'm sure.

[ThePirate]

I feel strongly both ways.

[Murray]

Originally Posted by ThePirate

I feel strongly both ways.

you’re wrong

[bill_daniels]

Originally Posted by dvarapala

Enter the "smart grid." The electric cars and the electric company coordinate to manage the load on the grid.



Solar power and Tesla Powerwalls can also help smooth out the peaks in demand.

Well, yes, that's an option, an option for people who can afford to spend $35-50K on a solar system for their house capable of keeping an electric car or truck running, while simultaneously spending $ 10-20K more for a car than the gas equivalent version.

Even among the group of Americans that can afford to do that, the question of why would they comes up. It's a lot of extra headaches, planning, maintenance, etc., vs. just buying another gasoline powered car.

I'm not against electric, I think it's a neat technology, and I'm not against solar/battery development, but those are just not ready for mass adoption yet, mainly because of cost, forget about the materials required or the solid waste issue.

If I could buy a solar system and have any kind of decent ROI, I would have already done it, but at this point, I spend from about $ 60- $ 170 a month, all in on electric/natural gas service each month, so dropping $ 25,000 on a solar system with no battery backup, extra insurance costs each year, and an unknown amount of maintenance and repair costs going forward doesn't make any kind of sense.

When the cost-benefit analysis starts to make sense for electric cars and the rooftop solar battery companion technology, you'll see it being adopted. Until then, it's a niche market.

[MadInNc]

Stolen pic....

[Murray]

^^^^^ because running out of gas has never happened

[RMVette]

Originally Posted by MadInNc

Stolen pic....

[JRD77VET]

Originally Posted by dvarapala

Enter the "smart grid." The electric cars and the electric company coordinate to manage the load on the grid.



Solar power and Tesla Powerwalls can also help smooth out the peaks in demand.

Any smart grids in actual use or just in the planning /test stage?

Originally Posted by A/E

We just entered into World War III

Iran's Oil Embargo will make Gas Prices Skyrocket to $10 a gallon for piss water domestic sand tar crude that doesn't burn clean

Attachment 36217

The Time is NOW for Electric Cars to takeover the Sheeple's Transportation Needs

Thanks to President Trump's more aggressive DOMESTIC energy production, the only increases will be the "scared" price increases. We have enough production now IN THE USA to cover any disruptions.

Iran needs their oil to flow more than we need that amount of production in the world market.

[VatorMan]

I will say that the majority of EV charging takes place in the evening/night when the utilities aren’t as loaded. However, I’d hate to stake my ability to go from point A to point B on something that’s not portable like gas.

[Raazor]

Electric vehicles are fad and gay

[snide]

Originally Posted by VatorMan

I will say that the majority of EV charging takes place in the evening/night when the utilities aren’t as loaded. However, I’d hate to stake my ability to go from point A to point B on something that’s not portable like gas.

That gas generator is portable...

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by JRD77VET

Any smart grids in actual use or just in the planning /test stage?

My house has a smart meter but AFAIK the vehicle-to-grid capability has not been rolled out yet. Or, if it has, Wifie's Ford Fusion Energi charger doesn't support it.



https://www.eetimes.com/smart-grid-f...ric-vehicles/#

An advanced smart charging approach is vehicle-to-grid (V2G), already tested in the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, and Denmark; the technology allows the columns to “talk” with the networks, using the car battery it is connected to like a storage syste