Can New Car Dealer be Honest

[donuts]

Originally Posted by Millenium Vette

Any experienced salesman is going to ask those questions to qualify a shopper. They aren't there to waste an hour or two talking to someone who can't buy.



Again, they ask because they don't want to waste time on a shopper who can't buy. Happens every day.



The trade has everything to do with the deal and is something the salesman needs to know about. The salesman isn't just there to show you cars, they are there to put deals together. To do that, they need to know all about the trade. The old saying is, capture the trade, capture the deal.

Shoppers often know what their 10-day payoff is on their trade. Either they checked what they owe online or the last 3 dealers they were at told them what they owe.




So not true. Many shoppers are looking at cars they can't buy. Most shoppers coming in are upside down on their trade. A dealer has to get that information up front to qualify if the shopper can buy. And also to find out if they have shitty credit. Both of those things are more common than not of shoppers coming through the front door. The salesman doesn't want to waste time on someone who can't buy.

Such a broad stroke but you’re talking from a dealers perspective not a buyer.

They can put a deal together with simply knowing what car I want and they’ve always responded well when I throw the trade in last minute and they’ve also closed the deal without any mention of my credit score until Fand I dude runs my credit

[donuts]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Leverage? What in the hell leverage do you think it gives them?

They aren't irritated because you "took leverage". They're irritated because they're stuck dealing with yet another asshole wasting their time playing stupid games.

Listen asshole, you’re disturbed with me because youre on the dealer side of things and buyers like me irritate you because you don’t control the deal .. I do.

You and those like you take advantage of folk who are ignorant of your devices.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by donuts

Listen asshole, you’re disturbed with me because youre on the dealer side of things and buyers like me irritate you because you don’t control the deal .. I do.

You and those like you take advantage of folk who are ignorant of your devices.

I'm not disturbed by anything. I love customers like you. All I have to do to close you is play into your bullshit and make you think you "won".

You CONTROL THE DEAL? Yea man, you keep telling yourself that's what you're accomplishing.

I think it's hilarious that you are 1 of those typical clowns that actually seems to think that playing your stupid ass games somehow helps you and gives you "control". I see a dozen of you a day. You're an easy target. You aren't controlling shit.

[donuts]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

I'm not disturbed by anything.

You CONTROL THE DEAL? Yea man, you keep telling yourself that's what you're accomplishing.

I think it's hilarious that you are 1 of those typical clowns that actually seems to think that playing your stupid ass games somehow helps you and gives you "control". I see a dozen of you a day. You aren't controlling shit.

Your irritation is enough. I have friends who work in dealerships who tell me I’m right so you can stomp all you want to.

[Millenium Vette]

Originally Posted by donuts

Such a broad stroke but you’re talking from a dealers perspective not a buyer.

They can put a deal together with simply knowing what car I want and they’ve always responded well when I throw the trade in last minute and they’ve also closed the deal without any mention of my credit score until Fand I dude runs my credit

Correct. I've done most of the jobs in the front end of a dealership including finance and sales manager. When a salesman comes to the desk to work a deal they are expected to know certain things including if there is a trade and how much is owed on it. Most of the time there is a trade and there is a balance owed that is higher than the trade value. Often the shopper will try and lie and say they are not trading. It's up to the salesman to find out the truth.

The reason the dealer doesn't do that with you is that they can recognize a qualified buyer who isn't there to dream or waste anyone's time. I would say most on this forum are that type of buyer. But there are plenty of shoppers who come throught the door who are the opposite.

[donuts]

Originally Posted by Millenium Vette

Correct. I've done most of the jobs in the front end of a dealership including finance and sales manager. When a salesman comes to the desk to work a deal they are expected to know certain things including if there is a trade and how much is owed on it. Most of the time there is a trade and there is a balance owed that is higher than the trade value. Often the shopper will try and lie and say they are not trading. It's up to the salesman to find out the truth.

The reason the dealer doesn't do that with you is that they can recognize a qualified buyer who isn't there to dream or waste anyone's time. I would say most on this forum are that type of buyer. But there are plenty of shoppers who come throught the door who are the opposite.

If you know that there’s a lot of equity in the trade do you offer as much as you could up front ? I’ve been told no

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by donuts

Your irritation is enough. I have friends who work in dealerships who tell me I’m right so you can stomp all you want to.

Your friends who work in dealerships?

See, there's your weakness. Vanity and self-importance. You need to feel like you've accomplished something. Easiest deal to close. All I have to do is act like you've won.

Why would I be irritated by what someone says about buying cars on an internet forum? Sorry man, you're just not that important. You're no different than any of the other countless clowns who have walked in with nonsense that they think is helping them... thinking they're going to win some battle that isn't even happening.

There's no stomping. There's laughing.

[donuts]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Your friends who work in dealerships?

See, there's your weakness. Vanity and self-importance. You need to feel like you've accomplished something. Easiest deal to close. All I have to do is act like you've won.

Why would I be irritated by what someone says about buying cars on an internet forum? Sorry man, you're just not that important. You're no different than any of the other countless clowns who have walked in with nonsense that they think is helping them... thinking they're going to win some battle that isn't even happening.

There's no stomping. There's laughing.

My experiences prove me right and your irritation with me and those like me prove it as well.

So answer the initial question, can a dealership be profitable by being transparent and customer oriented ? Can you go to close a deal and not offer several gimmicky warranties and undercarriage protection ??

My favorite deal was buying a used E class wagon at the Benz dealer the finance gal was a smoke show , she didn’t make me wait for an hour , she got me in and asked how I wanted pay and I said I wanted to write a check. She looked at me and laughed and said you probably don’t care for any extra warranties and I laughed and said how did you know ??? I was outa there in 10 minutes. It’s their culture , to respect their customers and we love going there to do business.

[Millenium Vette]

Originally Posted by donuts

If you know that there’s a lot of equity in the trade do you offer as much as you could up front ? I’ve been told no

Not a great answer, but an honest one: It depends on the customer. Many customers know what their car is worth, either from other dealers or someone they know who has access to the auction numbers. It was rare where we could hold back on the trade money but it did happen on occasion. Most times we had to over allow because they were upside down on the trade. I would sometimes show the customer the auction numbers online to get them back to reality if they thought their trade was worth more.

[slewfoot]

Last fall was the first time I every purchased a new vehicle on the first day.
Usually it was like talking to a customer service twit from Thailand.

My 8 yr old hybrid had been in their shop for a month waiting on a new battery under warranty and they gave me a loaner.

I had been wanting to go with an SUV this time around and kept checking them out on the lot. Dealt with the manger. Made my choice, I was fine with the sticker, and want a specific amount on mine.

That went well and all was good. In the finance office, cash deal. I was ready for that show. He offered me the extended for $3500. I countered with $1000 firm or leave it. He took it.

My neighbor lady is a one owner of a 2008 FJ. I told her I like to have that as a dd and to give me first choice. Damn things hold their value really well

[donuts]

Originally Posted by slewfoot

Last fall was the first time I every purchased a new vehicle on the first day.
Usually it was like talking to a customer service twit from Thailand.

My 8 yr old hybrid had been in their shop for a month waiting on a new battery under warranty and they gave me a loaner.

I had been wanting to go with an SUV this time around and kept checking them out on the lot. Dealt with the manger. Made my choice, I was fine with the sticker, and want a specific amount on mine.

That went well and all was good. In the finance office, cash deal. I was ready for that show. He offered me the extended for $3500. I countered with $1000 firm or leave it. He took it.

That’s one of the biggest questions, why did he start at $3500 if he was willing to take $1000 ?? That’s how they lose credibility.

[slewfoot]

Originally Posted by donuts

That’s one of the biggest questions, why did he start at $3500 if he was willing to take $1000 ?? That’s how they lose credibility.

Those extendeds don't cost shit. He was losing out on finance and tried to up the extended. That is all money in his pocket

The extended actually was in my benefit on the trade in. My original warranty had run out on the hybrid battery but was still covered under the extended.

[Millenium Vette]

Originally Posted by donuts

My experiences prove me right and your irritation with me and those like me prove it as well.

So answer the initial question, can a dealership be profitable by being transparent and customer oriented ? Can you go to close a deal and not offer several gimmicky warranties and undercarriage protection ??

My favorite deal was buying a used E class wagon at the Benz dealer the finance gal was a smoke show , she didn’t make me wait for an hour , she got me in and asked how I wanted pay and I said I wanted to write a check. She looked at me and laughed and said you probably don’t care for any extra warranties and I laughed and said how did you know ??? I was outa there in 10 minutes. It’s their culture , to respect their customers and we love going there to do business.

She got you in fast because there weren't any customers ahead of you. Either a slow day for deliveries or they don't sell many cars.

No salesman likes an F&I manager that drags out the signing process, but there are plenty of F&I guys who love to hear themselves talk or they are scared to try and sell product so they do it by boring the buyer to death and wear them down so they'll buy something before signing.

The worst F&I guys I ever knew were the ones who came from a banking background and didn't now how to sell cars. It was always a two-way street, those kind never liked the salesmen either.

I worked with one who got REAL pissed at me this one time: I had a new customer who had left the Ford store he bought his 2005 Mustang at because they told him he couldn't trade up to a new GT convertible after owning it for a few months. He told me that was ****in' bullshit, his exact words, since he had checked with the credit union who held the loan on his trade and they had approved him. Did I mention he was kind of crude, LOL. Guy was a welder on high rises and made plenty of money. We had just put our first 2005 Mustang GT convertible on the showroom that morning. He walked in and pointed to it and said he wanted to buy it. Got the numbers all worked up and into finance. This bald-headed 58 year old wuss finance guy tells me no way he can get him bought. Half-asses an effort to send it in, says guy is full of shit, they won't approve him. So I sent the guy down to his credit union with a buyer's order to get an approval letter and bring it back. So he is gone for 10 minutes and comes back with the approval letter with the approval number and amounts to finance. That F&I manager was breathing fire after the guy left in his new care and growls to me to never do that again. I calmly shut his office door and then told him not so nicely how it didn't matter whether he liked it or not that I went around him for an approval or whether he liked the customer or not. And if he had a problem with it to go to the GM and complain. Which wasn't going to happen, he would have looked like an idiot. Plus the GM would have been pissed he went off on me.

The cherry on the top was I sold the guy a couple more cars in the next month or so and the F&I manager had to deal with him again.

[Millenium Vette]

Originally Posted by slewfoot

Those extendeds don't cost shit. He was losing out on finance and tried to up the extended. That is all money in his pocket

The extended actually was in my benefit on the trade in. My original warranty had run out on the hybrid battery but was still covered under the extended.

Was it a third party extended? The factory ones are more expensive. It wasn't because he was missing out on finance that he tried to mark it up, it's because the banks know the cost of the warranties and only allow a certain amount to be marked up, it used to be $1,000, don't know if it has changed.

[donuts]

Originally Posted by Millenium Vette

She got you in fast because there weren't any customers ahead of you. Either a slow day for deliveries or they don't sell many cars.

No salesman likes an F&I manager that drags out the signing process, but there are plenty of F&I guys who love to hear themselves talk or they are scared to try and sell product so they do it by boring the buyer to death and wear them down so they'll buy something before signing.

The worst F&I guys I ever knew were the ones who came from a banking background and didn't now how to sell cars. It was always a two-way street, those kind never liked the salesmen either.

I worked with one who got REAL pissed at me this one time: I had a new customer who had left the Ford store he bought his 2005 Mustang at because they told him he couldn't trade up to a new GT convertible after owning it for a few months. He told me that was ****in' bullshit, his exact words, since he had checked with the credit union who held the loan on his trade and they had approved him. Did I mention he was kind of crude, LOL. Guy was a welder on high rises and made plenty of money. We had just put our first 2005 Mustang GT convertible on the showroom that morning. He walked in and pointed to it and said he wanted to buy it. Got the numbers all worked up and into finance. This bald-headed 58 year old wuss finance guy tells me no way he can get him bought. Half-asses an effort to send it in, says guy is full of shit, they won't approve him. So I sent the guy down to his credit union with a buyer's order to get an approval letter and bring it back. So he is gone for 10 minutes and comes back with the approval letter with the approval number and amounts to finance. That F&I manager was breathing fire after the guy left in his new care and growls to me to never do that again. I calmly shut his office door and then told him not so nicely how it didn't matter whether he liked it or not that I went around him for an approval or whether he liked the customer or not. And if he had a problem with it to go to the GM and complain. Which wasn't going to happen, he would have looked like an idiot. Plus the GM would have been pissed he went off on me.

The cherry on the top was I sold the guy a couple more cars in the next month or so and the F&I manager had to deal with him again.

I got the impression she was ready to get the heck out of there and head to the bar

I appreciate your honesty, the sales side is always the quickest part, it’s the part of waiting on financing guy to get the deal closed. And you mentioned dragging shit out so you know it’s true. I’ve got a couple of those stories as well. I don’t get it, offer extended warranty at reasonable price and don’t waste my time, oh, and tell me up front that you’re recording the deal not after I have to ask why he’s asking stupid scripted questions.

I have some good transactions that were pleasant but they’re the exception not the rule.

[Millenium Vette]

Originally Posted by donuts

I got the impression she was ready to get the heck out of there and head to the bar

I appreciate your honesty, the sales side is always the quickest part, it’s the part of waiting on financing guy to get the deal closed. And you mentioned dragging shit out so you know it’s true. I’ve got a couple of those stories as well. I don’t get it, offer extended warranty at reasonable price and don’t waste my time, oh, and tell me up front that you’re recording the deal not after I have to ask why he’s asking stupid scripted questions.

I have some good transactions that were pleasant but they’re the exception not the rule.

You are probably right about the F&I gal wanting to get the the bar....

Recording the deal? That's a new one for me but I've been out of the biz for a few years. As a customer I wouldn't care for that.

One reason the Benz dealer was better to deal with is that the typical high line customer is not like the typical Ford, Chevy, or used domestic buyer. With the exception of some doctors, they know a line of shit when they hear it.

I had the best success whether selling, doing F&I or sales manager just being straight and forward with customers. Doing sneaky stuff is a sign of weakness because one doesn't think the customer will buy if you are blunt with them. Have bad credit, tell them it's a factor in the deal. Owe more than trade value? Tell them it's going to take some work to get the deal bought by the bank. Trade value? Don't be in a hurry to tell them the number, but it comes out at the right time. There is always the option of an over allowance on the trade. It just goes against the gross on the deal.

I never liked the term "control the customer", but the salesman does need to control the sales process. If it takes too long you risk losing the customer. They are on to the next dealer. The whole goal is to stop their shopping and leave in your car. Otherwise you likely will never see them again.

[RedLS1GTO]

Being on both sides of the desk many many times, this is actually an interesting discussion.

Originally Posted by donuts

... when I throw the trade in last minute and they’ve also closed the deal without any mention of my credit score until Fand I dude runs my credit

If your goal is simply to irritate people, great. I'm sure you are often successful simply as a function of wasting their time. With that said, I still can't figure out what exactly you think doing this is gaining you or how any of it somehow translates to a better deal.

And no, still not irritated.

[Frankie the Fink]

Sooo many buyers approach dealerships like its gladiatorial combat...

Then they think they are outsmarting the dealer by buying with "cash" or introducing a trade-in at the last minute. I've run a car dealership and the salesman are all trained to deal with all these supposed "gotchas" that have been around for 90 years.

And sales people are "qualifying" you before you get out of your car. What you drive, how you dress, how you look even. Most can spot a "tire kicker" in the first 5 minutes.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Frankie the Fink

I've run a car dealership ...

...and in your experience, has any 1 of these customer tricks ever netted them anything whatsoever that they wouldn't have gotten by simply walking in and acting like a decent human being?

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by Frankie the Fink

Sooo many buyers approach dealerships like its gladiatorial combat...

Then they think they are outsmarting the dealer by buying with "cash" or introducing a trade-in at the last minute. I've run a car dealership and the salesman are all trained to deal with all these supposed "gotchas" that have been around for 90 years.

And sales people are "qualifying" you before you get out of your car. What you drive, how you dress, how you look even. Most can spot a "tire kicker" in the first 5 minutes.

Here is why I don't believe this. I am VERY VERY clear when I get out that I am NOT buying anything. I came to look at the new X or check out the used X. Still they follow and try to talk me in to buying. I am not there to buy and I was very clear about it. It doesn't matter how I am dressed, their behavior is the same. When I have reached my tolerance of being "shadowed" I walk to my car and leave. Their evaluation skills suck and are unnecessary because there is no value in "pretending" I'm going to buy something.