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Old 04-10-2024, 2:50pm   #41
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Speaking of gaslighting Batman.. sounds like you could be one of them.

Iíve experienced the stupid shit from ****wad finance guys, from Porsche dealerships to Ford dealerships, Iíve only ran across a few who werenít total dicks trying to take advantage of your ignorance. I donít need to watch YouTube.

Imagine being a finance guy that doesnít lie, gaslight, and try to cheat his customers out of their hard earned cash .. his 60 hour work week is tiresome perhaps but heís trusted and good folk arenít pushed to fight for their lives to make a purchase.
Have you considered that the common denominator in those transactions... is you?

I don't lie cheat, or anything else to get money. I don't have to. The amount of money that you can "cheat" or "trick" people out of is absolutely miniscule compared to the amount you will get with return customers. I say that as the owner who would pocket all of it, much less the finance guy who will only see perhaps a fraction at best. It's not even about being a nice, honest guy. It's simple business. People leave happy, they come back. Squeezing $50 out of them somehow, even if I could, isn't worth it.

If someone is decent and respectful, I return the favor. That is my default. With that said, I will absolutely admit to greatly enjoy getting every dime possible out of the people that walk in and act like an ass ready for combat. The people that walk in acting like it's a fight, well, let's go. That part, with those asshats, that's not to cheat you out of money, that's just for fun.

Like I said, I can say with a whole lot of certainty that I've never been taken advantage of by a finance guy or a dealership. I also don't walk in with the attitude that I am going into combat. Maybe I've just been lucky.
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Old 04-10-2024, 2:55pm   #42
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I wonder how car dealers got this reputation . . . ? Hmmm . . .



From post #15:
I believe thereís folk who get into the business because it fits their character .
It takes a lot of money to buy or open a new car dealership and I believe those guys could mostly be ok simply by experience. BUT they need employees and managers who know how to buy and sell in order to keep the lights on and over half of those hires are bad apples , driven by greed and the satisfaction of the ďhuntĒ.

Sadly , the ass end of the dealership is in the finance office. Well, and the service desk. Service dicks is a whole nuther thread.

I believe if dealers stop rewarding these guys for these antics and they would diminish.
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Old 04-10-2024, 3:03pm   #43
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Car buyers are easily bigger aholes than anyone / anything at the dealership.
They will always have lower income and worse credit than stated, and will continue that lie even after you prove them wrong.
100%.

My favorite are the ones that come back with a recent repo. "What?? That's wrong. That never happened"

OK, cool. They may have made a mistake. Here's the number to dispute it. When you get that resolved, come on back or you can go to your own bank. You know how that ends.

The 1 that will NEVER be topped. Guy came in, I asked about his credit, he said it was good. Came back with a very recent repo. When I told him, this, no shit, was his answer:

He stood up, pissed off, slammed a chair.

"That's bullshit, man. I gave that shit back when they told me to."
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Old 04-10-2024, 3:06pm   #44
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Have you considered that the common denominator in those transactions... is you?

I don't lie cheat, or anything else to get money. I don't have to. The amount of money that you can "cheat" or "trick" people out of is absolutely miniscule compared to the amount you will get with return customers. I say that as the owner who would pocket all of it, much less the finance guy who will only see perhaps a fraction at best. It's not even about being a nice, honest guy. It's simple business. People leave happy, they come back. Squeezing $50 out of them somehow, even if I could, isn't worth it.

If someone is decent and respectful, I return the favor. That is my default. With that said, I will absolutely admit to greatly enjoy getting every dime possible out of the people that walk in and act like an ass ready for combat. The people that walk in acting like it's a fight, well, let's go. That part, with those asshats, that's not to cheat you out of money, that's just for fun.

Like I said, I can say with a whole lot of certainty that I've never been taken advantage of by a finance guy or a dealership. I also don't walk in with the attitude that I am going into combat. Maybe I've just been lucky.
lol 😂 youíre funny, you honestly believe that itís all in my imagination ??

Hereís another true story, bought a certified explorer from the Ford dealer a couple years ago , they had a great price on it and so I drove an hour to get it. I get to finance office and he asked if I had a trade and he missed it , I said no, I didnít have a trade, he says he needs to sell me an aftermarket warranty to make the deal work. I asked why and he said they were losing money on the deal. I laughed and said well, your sales manager doesnít think so. So he hops up to goto the GMís office and he comes back and I kid you not says ďIíve gotta get more penetration to make this workĒ I laughed and said ďpenetration??Ē I shouldíve gotten up right then but I needed the explorer to pull behind motorhome and had rigging ordered for it already. So I told him that I had bought a new Raptor from them the year before and fine , he could put that warranty extension on it and Iíve wiggled a bit and then haggled for 30 minutes on the cost of the warranty and I felt ok when I left but amazed at their tactics. Needless to say they were out of business two years later , two Ford dealerships shuddered by Ford.
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Old 04-10-2024, 3:20pm   #45
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100%.

My favorite are the ones that come back with a recent repo. "What?? That's wrong. That never happened"

OK, cool. They may have made a mistake. Here's the number to dispute it. When you get that resolved, come on back or you can go to your own bank. You know how that ends.

The 1 that will NEVER be topped. Guy came in, I asked about his credit, he said it was good. Came back with a very recent repo. When I told him, this, no shit, was his answer:

He stood up, pissed off, slammed a chair.

"That's bullshit, man. I gave that shit back when they told me to."
Why do you ask about their credit ? Youíre going to run it right ?? Why not just run it and tell them their options ??

Itís like the classic salesman question ďhow much do owe on your tradeĒ.
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Old 04-10-2024, 4:10pm   #46
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Why do you ask about their credit ? Youíre going to run it right ?? Why not just run it and tell them their options ??

Itís like the classic salesman question ďhow much do owe on your tradeĒ.
Why is asking about the balance owed on the trade a problem?
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Old 04-10-2024, 4:16pm   #47
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Why is asking about the balance owed on the trade a problem?
Because it has nothing to do with selecting a new car. Itís just like the credit question, it doesnít make a difference because finance guy is going to run credit and discover both.

They ask to get an edge and sadly most people give an honest answer and it hurts them.
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Old 04-10-2024, 4:20pm   #48
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Because it has nothing to do with selecting a new car. Itís just like the credit question, it doesnít make a difference because finance guy is going to run credit and discover both.

They ask to get an edge and sadly most people give an honest answer and it hurts them.
It doesnít have anything to do with selecting the new car but it has a lot to do with the deal overall and itís not unusual or unfair for the dealer to ask for that information.
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Old 04-10-2024, 4:24pm   #49
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It doesnít have anything to do with selecting the new car but it has a lot to do with the deal overall and itís not unusual or unfair for the dealer to ask for that information.
The part you missed was the salesman asking that question , not the sales manager or finance mgr . The sales guy has nothing to do with the trade except taking the keys to his manager to be apppraised, then after that they ask what you think you owe, again, knowing that nobody knows how much they owe , and the finance guy makes the call to the lender to get the payoff. They just want to know early before they give you your trades value . And your trades value has nothing to do with how much you owe on it.
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Old 04-10-2024, 4:39pm   #50
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Because it has nothing to do with selecting a new car. Itís just like the credit question, it doesnít make a difference because finance guy is going to run credit and discover both.

They ask to get an edge and sadly most people give an honest answer and it hurts them.
How can giving an honest answer hurt the buyer in any way? Like you said, the stealership is going to get the truth anyway when they run your credit and/or contact your bank for the payoff on your existing loan, so what is there to possibly be gained by lying?
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Old 04-10-2024, 4:48pm   #51
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The part you missed was the salesman asking that question , not the sales manager or finance mgr . The sales guy has nothing to do with the trade except taking the keys to his manager to be apppraised, then after that they ask what you think you owe, again, knowing that nobody knows how much they owe , and the finance guy makes the call to the lender to get the payoff. They just want to know early before they give you your trades value . And your trades value has nothing to do with how much you owe on it.
I didnít miss that. Nothing wrong with the salesman asking that question. By the time you are with the finance guy the deal has already been negotiated.

Of course the salesman/sales manager wants to know what you may owe on your trade because it is relevant to the deal. Is there equity? Is the buyer upside down? It kinda matters in the negotiation.

And trade value to the dealer matters a lot especially if you have a loan balance on the trade. The dealer needs to know if they are going to have to give top dollar to maybe get the buyer out of the loan. Or if there is enough equity to help the deal.
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Old 04-10-2024, 4:58pm   #52
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I didnít miss that. Nothing wrong with the salesman asking that question. By the time you are with the finance guy the deal has already been negotiated.

Of course the salesman/sales manager wants to know what you may owe on your trade because it is relevant to the deal. Is there equity? Is the buyer upside down? It kinda matters in the negotiation.

And trade value to the dealer matters a lot especially if you have a loan balance on the trade. The dealer needs to know if they are going to have to give top dollar to maybe get the buyer out of the loan. Or if there is enough equity to help the deal.
Thereís 3 parts to a car deal; the negotiated price of the new vehicle, the value of the trade and the payment of the new vehicle. The payoff and credit score doesnít enter in a relevant way until it gets to the finance office for payment, equity will reduce the payment and if payoff is more than value of trade it will increase the payment. Each part of the deal should be negotiated separately if the buyer wants a chance at getting a decent deal.

Itís not in the dealers advantage for a customer to withhold that info until the finance office. But it is to the advantage of the buyer to force the dealer to discover it on their own.
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Old 04-10-2024, 5:04pm   #53
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Thereís 3 parts to a car deal; the negotiated price of the new vehicle, the value of the trade and the payment of the new vehicle. The payoff and credit score doesnít enter in a relevant way until it gets to the finance office for payment, equity will reduce the payment and if payoff is more than value of trade it will increase the payment. Each part of the deal should be negotiated separately if the buyer wants a chance at getting a decent deal.

Itís not in the dealers advantage for a customer to withhold that info until the finance office. But it is to the advantage of the buyer to force the dealer to discover it on their own.
You would be incorrect. The payoff of the trade is important to know as part of the negotiation of the deal.
As I already posted, if there is equity or if the care is upside down is very important.
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Old 04-10-2024, 5:21pm   #54
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You would be incorrect. The payoff of the trade is important to know as part of the negotiation of the deal.
As I already posted, if there is equity or if the care is upside down is very important.
I am correct , I separate my deals and the payoff never comes up until finance office. I do not tell them, as a matter fact I lie , and I tell them itís paid off so to get them completely off the subject.
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Old 04-10-2024, 5:28pm   #55
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I am correct , I separate my deals and the payoff never comes up until finance office. I do not tell them, as a matter fact I lie , and I tell them itís paid off so to get them completely off the subject.
So you want honesty from the dealer but youíre not honest yourself.
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Old 04-10-2024, 5:35pm   #56
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So you want honesty from the dealer but youíre not honest yourself.
Thatís right. Itís the only way to keep a level playing field. Heck, sometimes I donít even tell them Iím trading until Iíve got the price of new car negotiated , then I tell them I want to trade . It irritates them only because I took the leverage from them.
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Old 04-10-2024, 7:24pm   #57
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Why do you ask about their credit ? Youíre going to run it right ?? Why not just run it and tell them their options ??

Itís like the classic salesman question ďhow much do owe on your tradeĒ.
Good question. Why do I ask about credit?

The answer is simple. Because I work with 30 f**king banks and different banks are better for different levels of credit. It's a benefit to THE CUSTOMER, not me to put them with the right bank. There is no point running some deadbeat 550 credit turd in the banks that cater to good credit. On the opposite end, running 800 credit types in the mid-level banks is likely going to yield worse rates. You want me to run it and find out? Great. You're welcome for the extra hits to your credit because you didn't want to answer basic questions because I am going to simply start in the middle and see where it leads as opposed to knowing where to go first for the best fit.

Why do I ask about your trade equity? Another good question. Because some banks allow more rollover than others. Why do I ask about down payment? Because it matters towards overall value of a loan. Some are 105% max value. Some are 120%. Some are less than 100% which means more down which is a deal killer to some buyers. Again, it benefits the CUSTOMER to get the right bank for their situation. Nobody is playing a trick on you.

Amazing how that works.

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They ask to get an edge and sadly most people give an honest answer and it hurts them.
What the hell "edge" do you think it gives them? How do you think it hurts you?

I'll give you a hint. It doesn't do either of those things.

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They just want to know early before they give you your trades value . And your trades value has nothing to do with how much you owe on it.
No, they don't want to waste their time trying to find a loan for somebody only to be told after the fact that they are $20k upside down on something else. Guess what, that 2.9% APR on an 80% loan with trade equity or down payment doesn't necessarily apply to a 120% rollover.

You'll sit there and act like an innocent victim of someone trying to trick you when the reality is you gave them false information that changed things.

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But it is to the advantage of the buyer to force the dealer to discover it on their own.
What in the hell advantage do you think you are gaining?

Which brings us to this:

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lol 😂 youíre funny, you honestly believe that itís all in my imagination ??
No, I'm sure it's not in your imagination. I never said it was. I said the common denominator was YOU. And based on the other shit, I am absolutely not surprised that you have bad experiences. You bring absolutely all of it on yourself. You don't want a warranty? Say no thank you. You don't want a service plan?? Say nah, I'm good.

Let me give you a little trade secret. You want to be treated well by the people working at a dealership? You want a good experience and a good sales process? Stop acting like a complete f**king asshole.
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Old 04-10-2024, 7:30pm   #58
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It irritates them only because I took the leverage from them.
Leverage? What in the hell leverage do you think it gives them?

They aren't irritated because you "took leverage". They're irritated because they're stuck dealing with yet another asshole wasting their time playing stupid games.
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Old 04-10-2024, 7:35pm   #59
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Why do you ask about their credit ? Youíre going to run it right ?? Why not just run it and tell them their options ??

Itís like the classic salesman question ďhow much do owe on your tradeĒ.
Any experienced salesman is going to ask those questions to qualify a shopper. They aren't there to waste an hour or two talking to someone who can't buy.

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Because it has nothing to do with selecting a new car. Itís just like the credit question, it doesnít make a difference because finance guy is going to run credit and discover both.

They ask to get an edge and sadly most people give an honest answer and it hurts them.
Again, they ask because they don't want to waste time on a shopper who can't buy. Happens every day.

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The part you missed was the salesman asking that question , not the sales manager or finance mgr . The sales guy has nothing to do with the trade except taking the keys to his manager to be apppraised, then after that they ask what you think you owe, again, knowing that nobody knows how much they owe , and the finance guy makes the call to the lender to get the payoff. They just want to know early before they give you your trades value . And your trades value has nothing to do with how much you owe on it.
The trade has everything to do with the deal and is something the salesman needs to know about. The salesman isn't just there to show you cars, they are there to put deals together. To do that, they need to know all about the trade. The old saying is, capture the trade, capture the deal.

Shoppers often know what their 10-day payoff is on their trade. Either they checked what they owe online or the last 3 dealers they were at told them what they owe.


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Thereís 3 parts to a car deal; the negotiated price of the new vehicle, the value of the trade and the payment of the new vehicle. The payoff and credit score doesnít enter in a relevant way until it gets to the finance office for payment, equity will reduce the payment and if payoff is more than value of trade it will increase the payment. Each part of the deal should be negotiated separately if the buyer wants a chance at getting a decent deal.

Itís not in the dealers advantage for a customer to withhold that info until the finance office. But it is to the advantage of the buyer to force the dealer to discover it on their own.
So not true. Many shoppers are looking at cars they can't buy. Most shoppers coming in are upside down on their trade. A dealer has to get that information up front to qualify if the shopper can buy. And also to find out if they have shitty credit. Both of those things are more common than not of shoppers coming through the front door. The salesman doesn't want to waste time on someone who can't buy.
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Old 04-10-2024, 7:41pm   #60
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^^ What he said.
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