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Old 09-26-2017, 8:15am   #121
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Maybe another major terrorist attack on our soil (and it will happen) will remind some people how good they have it here. That's a terrible thing to say, but consider that you wouldn't have seen any of this behavior after 9/11.

Here's something else to consider: They began playing the National Anthem at baseball games during World War I as a display of patriotism during a world conflict. After the conflict was over, it probably should have stopped. That said, it has become a custom, so I pay respect. But now it's not just the National Anthem. It's the National Anthem and God Bless America. And lets point out a soldier in the crowd. And let's have a military indoctrination for 100 new recruits. And lets have a bunch of wives who's husbands are overseas get a plaque. And it goes on.

Like everything else in this country, we always overdo things like this as a result of some perceived guilt and shame to the point where it not only feels contrived, but is actually kind of nauseating. Politicizing major events in these ways doesn't make us a better country filled with better Americans. It's just another show.
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Old 09-26-2017, 8:30am   #122
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Plenty of people love this country that did not serve in the military.
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Old 09-26-2017, 9:19am   #123
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oh cry me a river

"we didn't ask for this"

Steelers’ Foster: ‘We Didn’t Ask For This’ « CBS Pittsburgh

bullshit. you had the chance to just act normal, stand at attention during the anthem, and not be part of the nonsense. but no...... you chickened out, let the other players talk you into something you now say you regret. you're a big boy, stand for something you believe in, or kneel/hide and take the heat from patriotic Americans. your call.
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Old 09-26-2017, 9:38am   #124
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[quote=DAB;1588188]oh cry me a river

"we didn't ask for this"

Steelers’ Foster: ‘We Didn’t Ask For This’ « CBS Pittsburgh


Quote:
“For the fans that criticize us, bring it back to football. Take your political views somewhere else,” said Foster. “If you choose not to watch it, we hate to lose you but we want to play football right now. We’ll deal with everything else when we can.”
Here's a thought... How about the players keep their politics out of the games too. Keep your protests, for whatever the fvck your protesting, off the field and out of the stadiums.
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Old 09-26-2017, 10:17am   #125
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This guy currently holds the record for the most burned stuff that I've seen so far.

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Old 09-26-2017, 10:38am   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Chef View Post

Like everything else in this country, we always overdo things like this as a result of some perceived guilt and shame to the point where it not only feels contrived, but is actually kind of nauseating. Politicizing major events in these ways doesn't make us a better country filled with better Americans. It's just another show.
Same could be said for much of the faux outrage. Certainly there are those who are genuinely disgusted by what's going on, but this whole thing is turning into a "look at me" moment. Just another day in the United States of the Offended.
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Old 09-26-2017, 10:52am   #127
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Same could be said for much of the faux outrage. Certainly there are those who are genuinely disgusted by what's going on, but this whole thing is turning into a "look at me" moment. Just another day in the United States of the Offended.
The outrage among the fans isn't "faux", for crying out loud. We're genuinely pissed off and fed up. The NFL gets over $6 billion in public financing. They inserted leftist claptrap divisive politics into the game, to make us feel "uncomfortable." We just want to bring our family to a game and have fun. It's super expensive, it's a hassle, and we don't have to do it. There are some things that you just don't put up with. Spitting in our collective faces is a great way to do just that.
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Old 09-26-2017, 10:55am   #128
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Originally Posted by Hoog View Post
Same could be said for much of the faux outrage. Certainly there are those who are genuinely disgusted by what's going on, but this whole thing is turning into a "look at me" moment. Just another day in the United States of the Offended.


There's always gonna be those "Look at me" types. Thankfully, all are not like that.
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:13am   #129
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[quote=snide;1588193]
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Originally Posted by DAB View Post
Here's a thought... How about the players keep their politics out of the games too. Keep your protests, for whatever the fvck your protesting, off the field and out of the stadiums.

None of us has ever worked for a place that allowed personal politics to be displayed while at work and on the clock
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:24am   #130
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The outrage among the fans isn't "faux", for crying out loud. We're genuinely pissed off and fed up.
....and most of you will get over it pretty quickly.
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:32am   #131
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....and most of you will get over it pretty quickly.
not if the players continue to disrespect our national anthem. If it has "gotten over with" that's because this political BS stops being displayed during a game.

It's already stopping/slowing down (for the players), no kneeling last night during the anthem.

Let's not forget who is caving-in on this.
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:43am   #132
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Quote:
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Let's not forget who is caving-in on this.
Try focusing on the puppet masters that turned this whole thing into a dumpster fire to begin with. The media found a sacred cow to exploit and look at where we are now.
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Old 09-26-2017, 12:00pm   #133
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Some fans? Sure.

Many fans? Possible.

100% all fans? Highly unlikely.


If 100% didn't show up, how fast would the NFL begin begging. I know it won't happen but still fun to imagine.

Serious, the big question is how long will folks not watch. For me, it's entertainment and something I do with disposable income. The key is entertainment, nothing more and nothing less. I can find other things to do. I'll even watch the Texas Longhorns.
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Old 09-26-2017, 12:24pm   #134
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.
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Old 09-26-2017, 12:30pm   #135
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who will blink first?

will Trump say "never mind, do what you want, everyone go to the game and cheer"

or will NFL/Goodell say "all y'all stand up like you have been doing since you first started playing football as teenager"

we have 2 strong willed types, neither of whom wants to be seen as weak and say "i was wrong".

i predict it won't be Trump.
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Old 09-26-2017, 12:42pm   #136
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Old 09-26-2017, 12:45pm   #137
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Originally Posted by DAB View Post
who will blink first?

will Trump say "never mind, do what you want, everyone go to the game and cheer"

or will NFL/Goodell say "all y'all stand up like you have been doing since you first started playing football as teenager"

we have 2 strong willed types, neither of whom wants to be seen as weak and say "i was wrong".

i predict it won't be Trump.
I don't give a shit what Trump has to say about it. He said he was fine with that the Cowboys did last night. I don't agree. I don't take cues from Trump to know what I think about things. If I was living in Alabama I'd vote for Judge Moore, not Luther Strange - despite Trump's endorsement. They crossed a line that many many Americans will never forgive them for.
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Old 09-26-2017, 1:15pm   #138
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I keep thinking this is something out of Trading Places.

Trump and Pence having a drink, DT says-"I'll bet you $ 1.00 that I can have 200 millionaires on their knees by next Sunday. "

Pence-You're on !!
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Old 09-26-2017, 1:43pm   #139
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NFL frantic:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/behind-...ump-1506439647

Quote:
Roger Goodell is an early riser who is often up by 5:30 a.m. Traveling away from home on Saturday, the NFL commissioner woke to an unexpected crisis: The multibillion-dollar sports empire he manages was under attack by the president of the United States.

In a speech Friday night, followed by a series of tweets Saturday morning, President Donald Trump castigated NFL players for kneeling during the national anthem. He said owners should fire any player who protests. He said games were boring and ratings were down, and called on fans to boycott the league because they love their country.

Goodell and many of the league’s fractious 32 owners soon decided Trump’s statements were less a defense of the flag than an unprecedented assault on their business. The commissioner and other league executives entered a 24-hour scramble—by text, telephone and email—to take control of the narrative and deliver an effective response.


By many measures, they didn’t quite succeed. This account of the weekend’s maneuvering—based on interviews with numerous people affiliated with NFL teams, the players union and the league itself who were directly involved—shows the various parties had spent the weekend in a feverish debate over how to respond to Trump.

Many players and their union—emboldened and angry—wanted to make a strident political statement. Some owners and the league favored a broader message about unity in the face of the president’s criticism, with some wary of clashing with the president. Goodell stood in the middle, his authority limited by battles with both players and owners over controversial disciplinary decisions.

As kickoff approached for the first NFL game, Goodell and other league officials didn’t have a clear idea of what was likely to happen when the players took the field—if they took the field at all.

In the end, the move that set the tone was made by a Pakistani immigrant, in a soccer stadium in London more than 3,000 miles from the NFL’s Midtown Manhattan headquarters.


It is still not clear if the widespread protests from Sunday will have the intended result. Late on Monday, Trump tweeted about “tremendous backlash” from fans, and there are signs of gathering blowback. After a lone Pittsburgh Steeler, war veteran and offensive tackle Alejandro Villanueva, stood at the edge of a stadium tunnel for the anthem, his jersey rocketed to the top of the sales charts at the official NFL store. Several players expressed misgivings about the protests, with Steelers’ star quarterback Ben Roethlisberger saying he wished ​the team had “approached it differently” to be clear they had respect for the anthem.

The league, however, said the players acted within their rights and that it is the president who is “out of touch,” as NFL spokesman Joe Lockhart said on Monday. He stressed that the league is “united” even as the demonstrations varied from team to team and player to player. While dozens of players ​took a knee, many teams locked arms while still standing for the anthem. Then in prime time on Monday night, the Dallas Cowboys and owner Jerry Jones knelt together but then stood for the anthem. A league spokesman later said the decision was finalized “moments” before the teams took the field. In a new tweet Tuesday morning, Trump called the move “big progress.”

Taken together, the protests were unprecedented but also ad hoc and featuring mixed messages at times. Even Villanueva, hailed by many on Sunday as a solitary defender of the flag and anthem, later said he didn’t intend to stand apart and that he had no intention of making his teammates “look bad.”


The demonstrations show a league that is still searching for the right balance between supporting its players—many of whom say they are deeply offended by the president’s statements—and a fan base in which a sizable number take umbrage at behavior they find unpatriotic.

The stakes are enormous. After years of unrivaled supremacy atop the sports ecosystem in the U.S. the NFL’s stature has taken several direct blows during the past year. Last season, audiences shrunk for its games, the country’s most expensive and most watched entertainment franchise. In addition, the league acknowledged for the first time that it believes there is a connection between the head trauma players sustain and long-term brain damage. At lower levels of the sport, football participation is declining throughout much of the country.

To reverse those trends and maintain its pre-eminent position in American sports, the NFL needed to get its response to Trump right.


The NFL Players Association moved first. NFLPA executive George Atallah checked his phone before bed on Friday night and saw messages on social media about Trump’s speech in Alabama. Atallah, NFLPA executive director, DeMaurice Smith, director of player affairs Don Davis and President Eric Winston worked ​remotely until 2 a.m. on a statement in which they said the union refused to apologize for its players’ decision to express their beliefs. That statement went out at 6:30 a.m. Trump followed minutes later with his first tweet.

Meanwhile, Goodell, Lockhart, the league’s general counsel Jeff Pash, and its chief operating officer Tod Leiweke, and Troy Vincent, the former player and director of football operations for the league, together tried to unpack what had transpired.

The NFL has chosen not to discipline players for kneeling, but the man who started the movement, Colin Kaepernick, has paid a heavy price. A free agent, Kaepernick has failed to find a job this season. Still, within the league office, the belief was that the controversy appeared to be dying down before Trump launched his attack Friday.

Among the first calls Saturday morning was to New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft, a Trump donor and friend, who agreed that this attack was far different than the president’s previous comments about the league.

Lockhart, a veteran of President Bill Clinton’s battles following his infamous affair with Monica Lewinsky, pushed for the league to stress the game’s ability to bring together tens of millions of Americans from every background and race. By midday, Goodell had released a statement that Trump had shown “an unfortunate lack of respect for the NFL, our great game and all of our players, and a failure to understand the overwhelming force for good our clubs and players represent in our communities.”

Meanwhile the union leadership was in close contact with team player representatives, such as the Seahawks’ Richard Sherman and the Eagles’ Malcolm Jenkins, who were advocating that players should lock arms in solidarity, as several teams had done last season with relatively little controversy.

In a tweet Sunday morning, Jenkins urged that strategy as a sign of respect and support for the players rights to express themselves and a sign that they would not be bullied.

The league, meanwhile, stayed in close contact with most of its owners but opted not to provide guidance beyond saying the team should express unity.

At the team level, that meant owners and players needed to decide for themselves how to proceed, even as they handled the typical preparations for the 14 games on Sunday.


But the day’s first kickoff was already approaching in London, where the Jacksonville Jaguars were playing the Baltimore Ravens in one of the NFL’s annual forays overseas. Due to the time difference, the game was scheduled to kick at 9:30 a.m. ET, and both the NFL and Jaguars owner Shahid Khan knew their approach could set a precedent for the games to follow.

A Pakistani immigrant who made billions by founding a successful auto-manufacturing company, Khan donated to Trump but is also known to be close to his players. When he arrived at Wembley Stadium for the game Sunday, Khan immediately went to head coach Doug Marrone’s office to talk with Marrone, general manager David Caldwell and football operations chief Tom Coughlin.

After a brief discussion, they summoned the team captains. Khan told them if the players wanted to make a statement, he hoped it was something that all 53 of the players could embrace. Also, if they would allow it, he wanted to stand with them.

Minutes before kickoff in London, Khan sent word to the NFL that he was going to lock arms with his team. Back in New York, where Goodell was now ensconced with this lieutenants, no one objected.

Over the next few hours, other owners including Stephen Ross of the Miami Dolphins and Jeff Lurie of the Philadelphia Eagles, did the same as Khan. ​​​​

In Los Angeles, ​24 hours of team discussions​within the Chargers—which stretched into the team’s pre-game meeting at its hotel Saturday night—culminated moments before kickoff. Dean Spanos, the team’s chairman, went into the locker room​to tell his players he stood behind them​whether they planned to kneel, lock arms even raise their fists—and he wanted to stand with them.

As the protests mounted through Sunday and into Monday, politicians and fans took sides in a vigorous national debate over the role of social activism in sports and whether the national anthem should be a sacred time to put politics aside.

Through it all, the two main parties—Trump and the NFL—had no contact. “If the president wants to engage in something positive, productive and constructive, he knows our number,” said Lockhart, the NFL spokesman.
there you have it: "no, you apologize first Trump" not going to happen. he didn't nothing wrong, it's your players that are not respecting the anthem and flag.

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Old 09-26-2017, 1:45pm   #140
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they are getting low on ammo, now they have to resort to the last gasp: call Trump a racist and see if anyone believes it.

Trump's a racist, say self-proclaimed 'objective' media outlets, experts | Fox News

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