Grayson & how the cow ate the cabbage

[Z06PDQ]

YouTube - Rep. Alan Grayson to Republicans: Stop Taking Food Out of the Mouths of Children

[Z06PDQ]

http://www.americablog.com/2010/07/a...h-threats.html

[ChasC5]

I like this guy … he flips the Right Wing Conservative Wacko’s the bird … that he best they can do is what all cowards do, send anonymous threats.

Real Men make their Threats Face to Face.

[Cobra4B]

So what ever happened to planning for job loss? I mean why should the government even take unemployment from my paycheck when I could more easily just save that in addition to the other money I save? Why is it's the government's responsibility to support you when you are on hard times? If you have a family and don't have enough savings to last at least a year w/o a job then you're doing it wrong.

Republicans would support the extension if it was paid for w/o taking on additional debt... what is so hard about that?

Why should we allow people to collect unemployment for nearly 2 years anyway? Go get a ****ing job. I don't care if you think flipping burgers is below you, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

[ChasC5]

Originally Posted by Cobra4B

So what ever happened to planning for job loss? I mean why should the government even take unemployment from my paycheck when I could more easily just save that in addition to the other money I save? Why is it's the government's responsibility to support you when you are on hard times? If you have a family and don't have enough savings to last at least a year w/o a job then you're doing it wrong.

Republicans would support the extension if it was paid for w/o taking on additional debt... what is so hard about that?

Why should we allow people to collect unemployment for nearly 2 years anyway? Go get a ****ing job. I don't care if you think flipping burgers is below you, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

Who do you know that has been getting Unemployment from July 2008 and before?

If you know of these individuals, why are you not reporting them to the Government?

[Y2Kvert4me]

He summed up the whole point right away.

The people that survived the great depression did so by sustaining themselves, not by having the government coddle them along forever.

It's rather amusing how no one seems to be able to find work when receiving unemployment compensation, but yet when those checks stop rolling in, those same people suddenly and miraculously get a job. The timing is all too coincidental.

When people are forced to sustain themselves, they find a way to do so. They generally become less lazy, more responsible, and better assets to the community.
Instead, people like Grayson believe those poor (spoiled) folks will wither away and die unless the Gov't continues feeding them. It's simply not true.

[Stangkiller]

I love how he tries painting the Republicans as disconnected from the people.

Uhhh, I do believe passing health care and operating at such rediculous deficits is far from what the people the majority of the people wanted.

[ChasC5]

Originally Posted by Y2Kvert4me

He summed up the whole point right away.

The people that survived the great depression did so by sustaining themselves, not by having the government coddle them along forever.

It's rather amusing how no one seems to be able to find work when receiving unemployment compensation, but yet when those checks stop rolling in, those same people suddenly and miraculously get a job. The timing is all too coincidental.

When people are forced to sustain themselves, they find a way to do so. They generally become less lazy, more responsible, and better assets to the community.
Instead, people like Grayson believe those poor (spoiled) folks will wither away and die unless the Gov't continues feeding them. It's simply not true.

LINK ?

[Z06PDQ]

it's their money. they paid into it for years. what's so hard to understand? how would you like it if your bank told you "what emergency fund? **** you, you can't have it"

[Y2Kvert4me]

Originally Posted by Z06PDQ

it's their money. they paid into it for years. what's so hard to understand?

It's whose money?

It's the employer that pays UI taxes, not the employee.

Why Don’t Employees Pay for Unemployment Insurance? | Tough Money Love

[Z06PDQ]

[quote=Y2Kvert4me;42289]It's whose money?

It's the employer that pays UI taxes, not the employee.

ok I was thinking of SSI. [oops] still, why if it is deducted for the purpose of unemployment insurance & mandated by law should it not be allowed to be accessible? especially in a recession with unusually high unemployment? to me, it's akin to your banker saying" yeah, we know this belongs to you, but you can't have it." the Pubs are sending a crystal clear message: "we want the wealthy to have tax cuts, but we don't want *you* who are hurting to have sh!t"

[Y2Kvert4me]

Originally Posted by Z06PDQ

ok I was thinking of SSI. [oops] still, why if it is deducted for the purpose of unemployment insurance & mandated by law should it not be allowed to be accessible?

When no one is being let go or laid off, the UI tax on an employer is a very small amount.

When an employee is let go, it is only then the employer's tax goes way up (to then pay for the benfit). The system is designed this way to prevent employers from letting people go at whim. You lay someone off, you will pay more.

If employers are having to let people go due to lack of business and tough economic conditions, do tell us how taxing them more at that point can possibly be a good thing?

Just like with forced health care, this extention of benefits is essentially another small business-killer. Quite counter-productive if the end goal is reducing the unemployment rate.


This topic is NOTHING to do with taxing the rich. There are millions of small employers across the US that are barely getting by enough to keep the doors open, these are folks that are feeling the pain.

[Z06PDQ]

Originally Posted by Y2Kvert4me

When no one is being let go or laid off, the UI tax on an employer is a very small amount.

When an employee is let go, it is only then the employer's tax goes way up (to then pay for the benfit). The system is designed this way to prevent employers from letting people go at whim. You lay someone off, you will pay more.

If employers are having to let people go due to lack of business and tough economic conditions, do tell us how taxing them more at that point can possibly be a good thing?

Just like with forced health care, this extention of benefits is essentially another small business-killer. Quite counter-productive if the end goal is reducing the unemployment rate.


This topic is NOTHING to do with taxing the rich. There are millions of small employers across the US that are barely getting by enough to keep the doors open, these are folks that are feeling the pain.

this topic has nothing to do with health care either, but since you went there: Tax credit will help small businesses with health insurance costs | News-Gazette.com

[Cobra4B]

Simple fact lost on most... the Bush tax cuts increased revenues to the Treasury.... smaller percentage of a larger whole = more.... I know its hard math for many libs to understand.

I never said you shouldnt be able to tap into UI when you lose your job.... but enough is enough.... there has to be a limit on the payout. Plus, what ever happened to planning for bad things on your own? Its not .govs job. I would rather take home more or get a x-mas bonus vs. forced unemployment. I can do a better job saving my money that anyone else.

Plus, the whole thing here is pubs are ok w/ extending them if it comes out of pre-approved funds.... dems just want to dig the hole even deeper.

Basic principles of business stimulation are lost on them... they are so used to fostering a welfare class that they dont get that handouts arent necessarily good.

[Z06PDQ]

so, you can extend their UI or put them on welfare. pretty obvious to me what needs to be done. Grayson made a great point. these people aren't sitting home smoking doobies & eating bon bons. there are 6 applicants for every job. do you know anyone who's without a job? I do. they'd KILL to have a job. they just aren't there.it's time the tax burden shifted. the time is now. the wealthy have been getting a free ride while stuffing foreign bank accounts full of cash to avoid taxes. do you really think the term "tax shelter" was invented by a poor man?

[Y2Kvert4me]

Originally Posted by Z06PDQ

the time is now. the wealthy have been getting a free ride while stuffing foreign bank accounts full of cash to avoid taxes. do you really think the term "tax shelter" was invented by a poor man?

And they will continue to do so as well. Either here, or somewhere else. Your choice.

Do you REALLY think the gov is gonna collect?

Sound like an extremely good way to entice big business to take their business (along with their money) overseas too, causing even more job loss here, and tax revenue loss as well. Brilliant!

Simple cause and effect. You can attempt to "punish" the rich all you'd like, but what you'll find is things will get worse when they've had enough and leave.

When they inevitably go away to a place that welcomes them with tax breaks, this country will have nothing left but the poor - but hey, at least we'll all be equal.


I cannot understand why most of the world wants to draw in the wealthy (and their money), but you wish to do whatever it takes to push them away. Makes absolutely zero sense.

The bottom line is the rich will always be rich, and there's not a damn thing you or the US Gov't can do to change that fact.

[ChasC5]

Originally Posted by Y2Kvert4me

Do you REALLY think the gov is gonna collect?

So the answer is, don’t bother, just go after the Middle Class?

[Z06PDQ]

Originally Posted by Y2Kvert4me

And they will continue to do so as well. Either here, or somewhere else. Your choice.

Do you REALLY think the gov is gonna collect?

Sound like an extremely good way to entice big business to take their business (along with their money) overseas too, causing even more job loss here, and tax revenue loss as well. Brilliant!

Simple cause and effect. You can attempt to "punish" the rich all you'd like, but what you'll find is things will get worse when they've had enough and leave.

When they inevitably go away to a place that welcomes them with tax breaks, this country will have nothing left but the poor - but hey, at least we'll all be equal.


I cannot understand why most of the world wants to draw in the wealthy (and their money), but you wish to do whatever it takes to push them away. Makes absolutely zero sense.

The bottom line is the rich will always be rich, and there's not a damn thing you or the US Gov't can do to change that fact.

I ain't buying it. corporations outsourced record amounts of jobs at a time of RECORD PROFITS & record low taxes. here's a clue: it's *their* country, too. we are in a bind & it's time for everyone to pitch in.they have been riding on our backs for decades. history has clearly shown that every time the wealthy are taxed the economy jumps through it's ass. I don't care if they are rich, except when they have directly contributed to our economic woes & now they want more breaks. the assholes over at PRC used to ask me "why do you care how much a CEO makes? the truth is, I don't unless it affects *me.* the CEO of my HMO [Steven Helmsley-United Health Care] made $2000 a minute. all while my premiums shot up & my benefits declined & some people were outright denied coverage. that affects me.

[Cobra4B]

We have one of the higest corporate tax rates of any developed nation... where are these "record low taxes" as you put it?

A businesses job isn't to support the country... they're not a charity. Their job is to make money for the stakeholders... period. Everything else is a side benefit. If there's no money to be made the stakeholder pulls their capital and invests it elsewhere.

Businesses must outsource to compete in this new global economy. Everyone wants to go buy "it" cheap at Walmart and Wally-world typically buys form the LCP... so if you're not the LCP you don't get your stuff bought by Wally-world and you're pretty much out of business... at least in retail/consumer goods. So what do you do? You outsource where you can to lower costs.

Fact of the matter is we live in a global economy now and the rest of the world will slowly drag us down to some type of parity.

As for UI etc. etc... I know a few people who aren't working and are just collecting UI... it's pathetic. Cut that off and I guaranty they'd go find some type of job.

Regardless... if they're going to extend them further why not do it with pre-approved TARP funds? Why spend more money we don't have?

At the end of the day the issue is deeper and bigger.... we have a society that expects to be taken care of by the government. They are not self-reliant and get mad when the parent says no or doesn't provide. You've got 50% of the population not paying any taxes and using all the social programs.... so in effect they've got no skin i the game... they have no reason to be self-reliant.

[ChasC5]

Originally Posted by Cobra4B

If there's no money to be made the stakeholder pulls their capital and invests it elsewhere.

Hummm … kinda sounds like a Bank