Who has german shepherd doggos

[Rodnok1]

Huskies are considered one of the friendliest dogs around.. Yet are close to top of bites reported.
I've seen every extreme of GSD already. 100% friendly, bite you when walk away cowards to straight up pycho(much like women now that i think about it... )
Every animal is different, I have more scars from smaller dogs than big dogs from mistakenly thinking they were just little cuties.

[Don Rickles]

Originally Posted by Rodnok1

Huskies are considered one of the friendliest dogs around.. Yet are close to top of bites reported.
I've seen every extreme of GSD already. 100% friendly, bite you when walk away cowards to straight up pycho(much like women now that i think about it... )
Every animal is different, I have more scars from smaller dogs than big dogs from mistakenly thinking they were just little cuties.

This comment reminds me of a conversation I had just today! We have a turtle that’s been in the family for something like 55 years now. After feeding it, and cleaning it washing its tank, the sumbitch will still bite you! I told my wife it’s just like her! lol 😂

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

Originally Posted by Don Rickles

My point is and I just love the look of a Shepherd is, even the best well trained, can be and are animals, and be unpredictable …

I taught for 20 years. (Primarily Obedience and Conformation) I told EVERY class this exact thing. I don't give a shit HOW well trained Rover is. He's a dog.

Furthermore, this notion that breeders suck simply shows ignorance. None of my litters sucked, none of my dogs sucked. I lost some prematurely, we ALL have. You can't hang that on a breeder. There's a hospital full of children with cancer 20 miles from me. The parents sucked right?

[Mick]

Originally Posted by Rodnok1

I do have one question I haven't seen a good answer for.
Are they runners as in run off if not in fenced area? I have almost 3 acres and not alot fenced in. Noki wasn't a runner like every other Husky I had and I got used to it. He'd stay put if went inside for a few minutes. I'm in the country so rabbits and stray cats the usual chase afters.

I know this wasn't to me, but I'll give my opinion anyway: GSDs are very smart, and they want to be the alpha/dominant one. At some point, if you have your GSD off leash outside, they will test you by running away to see how you react. Even when Belle was trained extensively for "perfect recall", there was once when we were visiting friends in upstate NY, that she got out of the yard, and I went after her. In seconds, she was hundreds of yards away from me, but I knew better than to chase her. I called her vehemently several times, and she would not come, so I just turned and went back into our friends' yard. About 20 seconds later, she was at the gate.

About a year later, a neighbor was exiting our back yard, and Belle snuck out when the gate was open and started to run up the street. I simply stood in the front yard, and called her. She stopped, and looked at me, and I said "Belle, come NOW!!!" but I never left our front yard. She came. She has never done that again. The lesson for the human here is, even though she misbehaved when she ran away in the neighborhood, I still didn't discipline her at all, because even though I had to call her twice, she did come when she was called.

Also what kind of height can they clear? I had a Husky could jump slap onto my shoulders from a standing jump. Want to make sure I have a good GSD enclosure also. Huskies requred a 5 ft fence minimum if you want them to stay put.
I keep a fenced yard for play and exercising but also a well built kennel . I don't want it getting out. They sleep and spend most of the time inside of course.

When Belle was younger, there was no doubt she could hurdle the neighbor's 4 foot fence. They realized that, and replaced it with a 6 foot fence. She could not just leap over a 6 foot fence, but it was clear that she could jump up, and hook her front paws over the top of the 6 foot fence, and pull herself over.

For basically her whole adult life, she has not been out in the yard without me or another adult human there supervising. The reasons for this are primarily that left alone, she would eat all kinds of crap in the yard, and I have had neighbors who were complete assholes.

[Rodnok1]

Noki ran off one time about a year after we got him, it was rabbits or the hunting dogs roaming behind us. I went to look for him (heavy woods) and after 20 minutes.. Uh oh sunset. Crap. He found me a few minutes later and took us both home. He did bolt a few times but could be stopped vocally, usually after he ran a neighbor dog back to their property he'd turn back.

[SnikPlosskin]

Originally Posted by Don Rickles

I’ll begin with this, I’ve been the proud owner of Dobermans for a little over 4 decades. Always have had a minimum of two in my home. At this moment we are down to one only. These stereotypes aren’t unfamiliar to me. We bred too many litters to count, well versed.

I witnessed an extremely well trained GSD, bite my mother in the leg. Unprovoked just got up, walked over and bit her.

I’m not going to type volumes here but ANY dog can at anytime inflict damage to a human.
We trained and had professional trainers teach our Dobes, this young female we have now is nicknamed “Kisses”! She kisses everyone and loves meeting new dog friends! BUT she’s afraid of children. So much so we can’t allow her near them! Keep in mind I had three kids that grew up and lived with all the others, we are empty nesters so she never met children…..

My point is and I just love the look of a Shepherd is, even the best well trained, can be and are animals, and be unpredictable …

Data point = 1

A trained GSD of normal temperament will not suddenly bite anyone. A GSD with poor training and/or weak temperament (fearful, aggressive, unpredictable, etc.) will bite.

A normal GSD can tell if someone is "off" or means harm and who is not a threat. They know what babies are. They are nothing like dobermans (which also look ****in' killer!) in terms of their ability to think.

[Don Rickles]

Originally Posted by SnikPlosskin

Data point = 1

A trained GSD of normal temperament will not suddenly bite anyone. A GSD with poor training and/or weak temperament (fearful, aggressive, unpredictable, etc.) will bite.

A normal GSD can tell if someone is "off" or means harm and who is not a threat. They know what babies are. They are nothing like dobermans (which also look ****in' killer!) in terms of their ability to think.

That has to be, one of the dumbest post I have ever read....I'm out!

[SnikPlosskin]

Originally Posted by Rodnok1

Thank you Snik, exactly the information I am looking for.
The best info was difference between show and working lines.
Im not looking for a show pony.
I'm more than willing and able to properly train a new dog, hell I trained the neighbors dogs since they were always in my yard anyway.

I will get those books, already have a Kohler book from long ago but frankly between Huskies being a holy terror and working 80 hrs a week the training wasn't good. I've inherited too many bad habits with dogs luckily those mostly were broken. Noki was well trained though by me.

The standard for Huskies is "nuts" - you have to look at behavior in a hierarchy.

Dog
Genetics
Training

Huskies are not bred for brains or to be low energy. They are bred to pull sleds. They are whip smart but crazy intense dogs.



I'm a bit into The German Shepherd Dog in Word and Picture by Max von Stephanitz and several other books.

I do have one question I haven't seen a good answer for.
Are they runners as in run off if not in fenced area?

No. They are the opposite. They say "Once you own a German Shepherd Dog, you'll never go to the bathroom alone again." They are also called "velcro dogs" - they usually imprint on one person so they get the main focus. (Me and Shadow) but their entire DNA is to stay with the flock. They are pack animals.

This focus is so strong in the GSD, they tend to stay near you even without training. A dog that is a "runner" is a poorly trained or mentally unstable animal.





I have almost 3 acres and not alot fenced in. Noki wasn't a runner like every other Husky I had and I got used to it. He'd stay put if went inside for a few minutes. I'm in the country so rabbits and stray cats the usual chase afters.

They will chase rabbits, deer and other kinds of prey. They watch birds - no shit. If you change something in your yard they will bark at it (pile of dirt). However, a well trained GSD can be recalled even in mid stride.

I know that sounds fantastical but only because the majority of dogs are not well trained. I'd say 60% are untrained and 35% "pretty trained" with 5% being actually trained.

Shadow is specifically trained to obey commands under stress. This is a painstaking type of training similar to what hunting dogs go through - but broader. But when he has locked on - he is intense as shit. And fast.

He chased a deer and before I could say anything, the deer easily hopped the privacy fence and Shadow plowed right through it taking out 4 boards. He came right back when I called him.

I do acknowledge Shadow has a very high level of training with hundreds (maybe thousands?) of hours invested. (My family specializes in Search and Rescue)



Also what kind of height can they clear? I had a Husky could jump slap onto my shoulders from a standing jump. Want to make sure I have a good GSD enclosure also. Huskies requred a 5 ft fence minimum if you want them to stay put.
I keep a fenced yard for play and exercising but also a well built kennel . I don't want it getting out. They sleep and spend most of the time inside of course.

There are two issues here: jumping and escaping from enclosed spaces. GSD's are powerful dogs - they can jump probably six feet in the air. If they are big and heavy less. (This is why Police have replaced them with Maligators - smaller, lighter, more intense and live longer).

If the GSD wants to escape he will. Jumping a fence is learned behavior. If he doesn't know he can jump it, he won't.

The other end of the spectrum is Search dogs. They are trained to scale things - so instead of jumping, they climb shit.



Thank you for taking the time to answer my post, means alot and no i never buy from stores.

Originally Posted by Rodnok1

Huskies are considered one of the friendliest dogs around.. Yet are close to top of bites reported.
I've seen every extreme of GSD already. 100% friendly, bite you when walk away cowards to straight up pycho(much like women now that i think about it... )
Every animal is different, I have more scars from smaller dogs than big dogs from mistakenly thinking they were just little cuties.

In America, there was a huge spike in demand after the first and second world wars because of the dog's heroic performances in batte. Soldiers saw them in combat and wanted one when they came home. After WWII a perfect storm created a massive spike in demand - the war, Rin Tin Tin, Bullet (Gene Autry's dog) all big stars.

So every Tom, Richard and Harry bred anything that looked like a GSD forever ****ing up the genetics of American Show Line dogs.

This means lots of problems.

Add to this extreme poor or non-existant training and you have a dangerous biting machine. Add mental instability - fear biting for example - and you have a big ****ing problem to dump off at the shelter.

Therefore, there are lots of stories about GSDs - with some degree of truth - they do get hip dysplasia but lots of dogs get hip dysplasia. They get bloat - also the leading cause of death among Great Danes. They get cancer - like all dogs - all of this is due to poor breeding practices.

In Germany, this didn't happen. The strict rules of the SV produces pretty consistent dogs. They can still go nuts or have problems - but the SV won't let you breed them. It's also Germany's national dog or some shit so there is a level of pride that is a factor.

Here we save every puppy. There they cull bad genetic traits. Every breeder we have bought pet quality dogs from required us by contract to neuter or spay so the faults would not get passed on.

Originally Posted by Giraffe (He/Him)

I taught for 20 years. (Primarily Obedience and Conformation) I told EVERY class this exact thing. I don't give a shit HOW well trained Rover is. He's a dog.

Furthermore, this notion that breeders suck simply shows ignorance. None of my litters sucked, none of my dogs sucked. I lost some prematurely, we ALL have. You can't hang that on a breeder. There's a hospital full of children with cancer 20 miles from me. The parents sucked right?

People think "breeder" = "puppy mill"

Serious breeders produce genetically consistent dogs. They catch faults and cull when necessary. HOWEVER, you are right. Shit happens.

Levi - cancer
Django - bloat (survived) then DM
CJ - Hips and autoimmune
Hanna - DM
Hiro - bloat (died)
Ranger - autoimmune disease (wasting disease)

All from very established and well known in the industry breeders. All American lines.

In fact, Ranger's entire litter died including the mother within 18 months. They all had essentially K9 Crohn's - wasting disease (there is a name - I'm blanking on it).

the breeder was devastated. (Hanna and Ranger from him - but different litters years apart). He quit breeding dogs after a lifetime of producing champions - he never had an issue before.

[Rodnok1]

Interesting and informative thank you.
Alot of those traits Noki had except the jumping thing. He couldn't jump for shit, well except that one time we were playing and he jumped into my arms.. About killed both of us. Full speed and jumped. I didn't walk right for weeks.
His traits were what led me to looking into a GSD. The velcro thing was very strong with my wife, he would circle her.
I'm getting more reading material and may have more questions later. Thanks again.
I absolutely want to be informed and prepared as possible.

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

Originally Posted by SnikPlosskin

All from very established and well known in the industry breeders. All American lines.

I'll share a funny(not funny) story in this thread. About seven years ago I found myself helping the Minneapolis Police Department procure bullet proof vests for their K9 officers. How that happened is another story but I all started because of my dog hobby and connections I made there.

Anyway, we had arranged for the MPD to come to the school I worked at. They supplied the dogs, we'd supply the dog clubs. Piece of cake right? Wrong. The officer was standing in front of a -unbeknownst to him- room full of breeders giving his little spiel which included the fact they went across the pond for their dogs. "Better dogs" or some such thing.

As you can imagine, the room was insulted and proceeded to pepper him with questions. He admitted he'd never whelped a litter in his entire life yet here he was throwing around terms like in-breeding, line-breeding, and cross-breeding with absolutely NO concept as to what those concepts are.

FWIW. The top winning show dog of all time was a German Shepherd named CH Altana's Mystique. Owned by Jane Firestone and handled by Jimmy Moses. Yes, THAT Firestone. Damn dog had his own jet.

[slewfoot]

Been about 20 years now. Our neighbor down the street had just moved in. He was a young cop about 30 and just finished 10 years in the Army. He was a Dog Handler/MP. After his probation was up from the academy, he was able to get into that field again.

We were good friends and I helped him set up a concrete and fence company and we built a nice place for the dog in his back yard.

One weekend at the local mall, the police set up a recruiting show with all the stuff they had and my neighbor was there with his dog.

I was at his table. his dog knew me well and people were stopping by and the dog was friendly and calm. Other officers were stopping by and just great interaction with everyone.

Well, 3 mounted horse patrol officers came walking by wearing cowboy hats and the dog went fkn nuts. My buddy had to put him in the truck for a time out.

Someone in the crowd said, "I guess he doesn't like rednecks."

[SnikPlosskin]

Originally Posted by Rodnok1

Interesting and informative thank you.
Alot of those traits Noki had except the jumping thing. He couldn't jump for shit, well except that one time we were playing and he jumped into my arms.. About killed both of us. Full speed and jumped. I didn't walk right for weeks.
His traits were what led me to looking into a GSD. The velcro thing was very strong with my wife, he would circle her.
I'm getting more reading material and may have more questions later. Thanks again.
I absolutely want to be informed and prepared as possible.

Huskies are way more hyper than GSDs

Here is the secret to success. If you can make it through the first 18 months, you are golden. But GSDs will try your patience and sanity until they reach adolescence.

It’s not just that they are smart. They ****ing see and hear EVERYTHING. Combine with a natural inclination to move up in pack status (GSDs will exploit any weaknesses they find in dogs or humans to increase dominance).

For example, if you act afraid with Shadow, he will bark at you in his “I’m the ****ing king” voice. But if you just go in for the pettin’ you are his new best friend. He has almost zero aggression.

However if you or your dog acts aggressively towards us or if you scale my fence uninvited, he is VERY aggressive. It’s like they have a good/evil switch and they know what’s up.

At the same time a baby can sit on the dog and pull whiskers out one at a time (yes, my son) and the dog (huge male) just laid there and took it because if he got up, he would knock the baby over.

[SnikPlosskin]

Originally Posted by Giraffe (He/Him)

I'll share a funny(not funny) story in this thread. About seven years ago I found myself helping the Minneapolis Police Department procure bullet proof vests for their K9 officers. How that happened is another story but I all started because of my dog hobby and connections I made there.

Anyway, we had arranged for the MPD to come to the school I worked at. They supplied the dogs, we'd supply the dog clubs. Piece of cake right? Wrong. The officer was standing in front of a -unbeknownst to him- room full of breeders giving his little spiel which included the fact they went across the pond for their dogs. "Better dogs" or some such thing.

As you can imagine, the room was insulted and proceeded to pepper him with questions. He admitted he'd never whelped a litter in his entire life yet here he was throwing around terms like in-breeding, line-breeding, and cross-breeding with absolutely NO concept as to what those concepts are.

FWIW. The top winning show dog of all time was a German Shepherd named CH Altana's Mystique. Owned by Jane Firestone and handled by Jimmy Moses. Yes, THAT Firestone. Damn dog had his own jet.

Honestly, that bugs me too. I’m not even up to speed totally on it because I’ve mostly trained. Haven’t raised a litter on my own.

Puppies are a pain in the ass and expensive. And covered in their own shit.

[Rodnok1]

Originally Posted by SnikPlosskin

Huskies are way more hyper than GSDs

Here is the secret to success. If you can make it through the first 18 months, you are golden. But GSDs will try your patience and sanity until they reach adolescence.

It’s not just that they are smart. They ****ing see and hear EVERYTHING. Combine with a natural inclination to move up in pack status (GSDs will exploit any weaknesses they find in dogs or humans to increase dominance).

For example, if you act afraid with Shadow, he will bark at you in his “I’m the ****ing king” voice. But if you just go in for the pettin’ you are his new best friend. He has almost zero aggression.

However if you or your dog acts aggressively towards us or if you scale my fence uninvited, he is VERY aggressive. It’s like they have a good/evil switch and they know what’s up.

At the same time a baby can sit on the dog and pull whiskers out one at a time (yes, my son) and the dog (huge male) just laid there and took it because if he got up, he would knock the baby over.

I could never of let my wife take Noki to work.. If someone acted badly or got an attitude towards her, he wouldn't have taken it well. He was so honed in on us it was scary sometimes.
I've had people approach us at gas stations on trips to "pet the cute puppy" and he was sensing something about them and had to shoo them away.
He almost never barked... Didn't bark for months at first, scared the hell out of me when he did the first time. Some young guy was in woods behind us marking trees and not making much noise.
Rule #1 around here was if Noki barked you'd better check and now. Well unless mom had a bowl of ice cream and he'd bark at her, never anyone else though.

[VatorMan]

Originally Posted by SnikPlosskin

3rd generation breeding and training German Shepherd Dogs here.

I'm not even sure where to begin.

Contrary to popular belief, GSDs are not all gonzo wild beasts that need 1000 miles a day of exercise or they will eat your children dogs.

They can adapt to highly active or sedentary conditions. In fact, the entire purpose of the breed is to adapt to conditions - whether climate or living conditions (I have a friend who lives in a high rise in Manhattan that owns a huge GSD working line dog).

Believe it or not, the GSD is one of the newest breeds originating in 1899. Some crazy German guy named Max Von Stephanitz decided to make the "ultimate working dog".

He started with what had become Germany's most common wild herding dog. If you had a flock of sheep back then, nature provided the sheep dogs. They were autonomous and needed no human intervention. They instinctively embedded themselves with the flock. They were the muttiest of mutts and, over hundreds of years had taken on a homogenized look.

They called them "German Shepherds" - Max creatively added "Dog" to name his new breed.

This is a photo of the first German Shepherd Dog, taken in 1899 "Horand von Grafrath-

Max single handedly went about line breeding like the German he was and over a period of 20 years or so created what we know as the German Shepherd Dog.

Max described his breed as

This was the start of what is known as the German Working Line dogs. They are intense, high drive mad rascals. Not for the first time owner.

The other main line is the American Show Line. There are working lines from lots of different countries - each a little different.

The Show Line dogs are bred to run around in circles with elegance. This is why their rear leg triangulation is sloped (to the point of it being a problem). That geometry allows the GSD to "float" at a trot.

Show line dogs have lower drive, more hip problems and other genetic issues due to wildly uncontrolled in terms of breeding.

Working line dogs (particularly from Germany) are bigger, wider, lower, high energy dogs with squarer heads. They have far less slope and way less genetic issues because the German SV controls breeding (you have to have titles and hip certifications and genetic testing, etc. to be allowed to breed two dogs.)

Still with me?

I have imported puppies from Germany. They are very special (Shadow is west German) He is very quick to learn, vocal as shit and follows me everywhere. When I shower, he lays outside the tub. (He has tried to climb in.)

The GSD is one of the few dogs that has temperament in it's breed standard. They are bred for physical characteristics like other breeds but also rock solid temperament and intelligence.

In fact they are so smart, they will outsmart you and get into trouble if you let them. They understand a huge number of words so, once trained, they understand conversational commands.

You can mix American and German lines to get a solid dog with a lower drive. This is sort of the ideal pet.

Colors are all over the place. Coat length is from short to long. The only issue with color is to avoid weak pigmentation - pink noses are a big tell for genetic issues. Black colors should be dark.

The biggest drawback is the commitment to training. To own a GSD is to become an expert in dog training. You cannot be casual about it or you will own a giant lawsuit waiting to happen. These dogs are higher on the food chain than us, can jump six feet into the air and run 30-35 mph.

If the dog wants to kill somebody, it's hard to stop. Socialization, mental balance and daily training from 12 weeks onward is mandatory.

This is day one with Shadow after he got off the plane:

Puppy bites himself learning not to bite - YouTube - he still is exactly like that.


This is day two - training starts. Learning his name and to come on command.

Fluffy Puppy Trips over Big Feet - YouTube


A couple last thoughts -

1. Good on you if you "rescue" or "adopt" a dog of unknown prodigy. For my purposes I can't afford the lack of predictability in terms of mental, physical, genetic issues. Be prepared to drop a lot of cash at the vet if you get one from a shelter or backyard breeder.

2. American Show Line - These can be great dogs, but I'd look for what is called "Pet Quality" - they usually have some fault (like one testicle or long coat) but are awesome. These are almost guaranteed to have problems later in life. 100% of our American dogs died prematurely from genetic problems. Ranger only lasted 1.5 years.

3. Working line dogs - If you commit to learning and doing training and have some patience, these dogs are SOLID. They can still have issues (Shadow has an allergy that causes skin problems) but they are stout, smart, agile and beautiful. It can be tricky to find a breeder and deal with shipping.

4. DO NOT BUY FROM PET STORES - these are puppy mill dogs. They are ****ed.

5. Cost:

Shadow cost $1,750 plus $300 for shipping - however, I got him from a place that doesn't sell to the public. I'm not as familiar with public selling breeders in Germany but there are plenty - Also in America, there are breeders who specialize in these dogs - they are born in America from German stock.

A pet quality American dog can be as low as $400 a show quality dog can run $7,500+

Books:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0047Y0FC8?tag=mus0a-21

Koehler method - these books are out of print but here's a Kindle one - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NFU003E?tag=mus0a-21

Winifred Gibson Strickland https://www.amazon.com/dp/1630269883?tag=mus0a-21

Gotta go - hope this helped somebody. When I have more time I can respond to questions and prior posts.

Did anyone else read this in the voice of the Westminster dog show announcer ?

[MadInNc]

Originally Posted by VatorMan

Did anyone else read this in the voice of the Westminster dog show announcer ?

. .

[Rikki Z-06]

[Frankie the Fink]

Had a Shepard mix in the 90s when my daughter was young, an incredible pet. Barked visciouslly at strangers (and UPS trucks for some strange reason) but was gentle as all hell in reality. An outside dog and never even got a flea or tick in 14 years; hips finally went out and tumors started appearing. I still get a bit choked up reflecting on our precious time with her.

[SnikPlosskin]

Originally Posted by Frankie the Fink

Had a Shepard mix in the 90s when my daughter was young, an incredible pet. Barked visciouslly at strangers (and UPS trucks for some strange reason) but was gentle as all hell in reality. An outside dog and never even got a flea or tick in 14 years; hips finally went out and tumors started appearing. I still get a bit choked up reflecting on our precious time with her.

Good to see you here Frankie!

[NotSlo]

Originally Posted by Rodnok1

Noki ran off one time about a year after we got him, it was rabbits or the hunting dogs roaming behind us. I went to look for him (heavy woods) and after 20 minutes.. Uh oh sunset. Crap. He found me a few minutes later and took us both home. He did bolt a few times but could be stopped vocally, usually after he ran a neighbor dog back to their property he'd turn back.

The last time my Husky got loose he was running around in front of our house wanting to play with some people walking down the street. Wouldn't come to me even with the box of treats in my hand. It dawned on me how to get him back, I asked him if he wanted to go for a ride in the car. I opened the car door and he ran right over and jumped in. He was a little over a year old then and we got him some training after that. I still never trusted him not to run though.