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Old 11-04-2011, 6:58am   #21
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Originally Posted by Jeff '79 View Post
One's ability to deal with change, determines ones success in the evolutionary ladder. Steve Jobs really shook up the box, and forced many changes in the way humans interact, and basically live.
I agree, BUT what does that have to do with physiological changes to humans to be able to breathe a different mix of gases in the atmosphere?
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Old 11-04-2011, 7:07am   #22
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Sorry Harry. I don't buy into the entire global warming hysteria. But that's just me.
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Old 11-04-2011, 8:24am   #23
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The climate has been changing for a million years and it will continue to change.
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Old 11-04-2011, 8:26am   #24
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Originally Posted by Thomas View Post
Sorry Harry. I don't buy into the entire global warming hysteria. But that's just me.
This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucwheat View Post
The climate has been changing for a million years and it will continue to change.
And this.
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Old 11-04-2011, 8:36am   #25
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There is no positive correlation between atmospheric C02 and global temperatures.

There is no positive correlation between atmospheric C02 and global temperatures.

There is no positive correlation between atmospheric C02 and global temperatures.

There is no positive correlation between atmospheric C02 and global temperatures.

There is no positive correlation between atmospheric C02 and global temperatures.

There is no positive correlation between atmospheric C02 and global temperatures.

There is no positive correlation between atmospheric C02 and global temperatures.

There is no positive correlation between atmospheric C02 and global temperatures.

There is no positive correlation between atmospheric C02 and global temperatures.

There is no positive correlation between atmospheric C02 and global temperatures.



Global warming is real. It is not caused by our V8s, our hair-spray, COW-FARTS, or our BREATHING.
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Old 11-04-2011, 8:41am   #26
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Recent history: NO correlation


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Old 11-04-2011, 8:42am   #27
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Distant Past: NO correlation


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Old 11-04-2011, 8:51am   #28
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But keep on drinking the kool-aid.





SCIENCE shows that the earth warms and cools. POLITICAL HACKS with an agenda of control manipulate data and manipulate people to try and convince easy marks that the trends are a result of bovine flatulence and automotive exhaust.


This is why their "solutions" aren't serious, won't help the environment, would not reverse man-made global warming if it were real, but would severely restrict individual liberty and economic progress.


They would at least be harmless fools if they were out there proposing common sense changes that would in fact clean up the air we breathe and our rivers, while at the same time NOT stifling our economy, putting people out of work, bringing human suffering about, and increasing government power over the individual. Such solutions do exist. Instead these same morons have for years prevented the development of more nuclear power, thrown money at stupid electric cars that use coal-fired power in most instances for their charge, and advocated a variety of insane measure like central planning and control over thermostats, forcibly herding people into cities, apartments, and green-planned communities, dumping billions into stupid trains in a country that IS NOT the size of a European country, etc., etc., etc.
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Old 11-04-2011, 8:56am   #29
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The coal and petro industries have paid off enough people with scientific backgrounds to go out and intentionally mislead the public into thinking there is not a consensus in the scientific community as to the causes of climate change.

There is. And its us.

There are also ways to remove green houses gasses from emissions that don't cost that much and create jobs in the process.

China has taken the lead in manufacturing these new technologies because the US has been stymied by corporations pushing their political power to crush efforts to implement change. Its the same thing that happened with solar power. Go look and see who makes all the solar power cells now.

It always amazes me that the same people that are so pro life can completely ignore how their actions will effect their children and future generations.
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Old 11-04-2011, 9:06am   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinkerbell in Texas View Post
Hey MV! Thanks! How's GR? Got any snow yet?
All is well here (in sunny Perth on vacation!)
No snow yet, but thanks for asking.... So, you still get a hankering for some of that baby food all of "you people" are so fond of eating? ....



In all seriousness, not much has changed up here lately. We did get a new Smashburger over by the malls. Not usually worth mentioning, but they have an olive burger that is the closest thing to the legendary Mr. Fables one I have had. Exciting, I know, but it is West Michigan.

So, how does Australia compare to here? It is interesting to me the contrast between the two countries, so much alike yet completely different.

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Old 11-04-2011, 9:16am   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
The coal and petro industries have paid off enough people with scientific backgrounds to go out and intentionally mislead the public into thinking there is not a consensus in the scientific community as to the causes of climate change.


Right. Actually the most vocal skeptics are not paid by anybody, most notably unlike the most vocal True Believers who are paid quite handsomely by the multi-billion $ MMGW industry.

And to address the OP, so you're saying WATER VAPOR has increased dramatically? Because, you know, WATER VAPOR is by far the biggest greenhouse gas of them all, having an overall effect on the order of 80:1 over CO2.

If you want to know where I stand on MMGW, I'm a skeptic and this scientist's recent speech is something I agree with very much. MMGW is a pseudoscience, and can be demonstrated as such. The skeptical line that disagrees with the conjecture that it is likely to be catastrophic unless drastic and expensive changes happen is actually based in sound science. It is, actually, just that simple.
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Old 11-04-2011, 9:29am   #32
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TxAG, I didn't address the rest of his post because it was entirely devoid of anything resembling reality.
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Old 11-04-2011, 9:34am   #33
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Oh, and one more thing. I just want ignorant people to know that it is entirely possible to be skeptical of the MMGW agenda and still agree that the Theory of Natural Selection is a very good scientific theory. I realize you think that all the skeptics are also hurrr durrrr Creationist religious whack jobs, but that just makes you ignorant of the truth. Many quite-scientific minded people are very skeptical of the MMGW "science" and rightfully so. You'd think that the Climategate fiasco would have opened at least some eyes.
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Old 11-04-2011, 9:37am   #34
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OBTW- Can someone stop the volcanoes from spewing ash and CO2 into the atmosphere? I thought I head once that one eruption is like a LOT of global warming kinda stuff. KTHXBYE
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Old 11-04-2011, 9:40am   #35
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[Yoda] Mmmmmm....much anger I sense in this thread [/Yoda]

Left blames Right, Right hates Left, yadda, yadda, yadda.......

IMHO, global warming is real. I'm sure man has an impact on it, we do inhabit the Earth. So do cows--their flatulence affects greenhouse gases. In reality, it's a cycle. The Earth warms, the Earth cools, ice ages come, ice ages go. Dinosaurs are extinct. Climate changes make other species extinct. I really don't think there's anything humans can do to stop it. Maybe we can slow it, a little, but I think it's a natural cycle.

Flame suit on
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Old 11-04-2011, 9:42am   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
There are also ways to remove green houses gasses from emissions that don't cost that much and create jobs in the process.

China has taken the lead in manufacturing these new technologies because the US has been stymied by corporations pushing their political power to crush efforts to implement change. Its the same thing that happened with solar power. Go look and see who makes all the solar power cells now.
I have taken the liberty to remove most of the political statements from Phil's quote to focus on the statements I left in there, which I find interesting and would like to know more about. Even though I don't buy into the MMGW stuff, I am all for making things cleaner and more efficient, whether they are cars, trains, or factories, etc. Phil does seem to have great knowledge about how to accomplish that, but these threads always get sidetracked to politics and then the rhetoric begins (from both sides). I would like to know more about how we can pollute less and how to clean up already polluted things such as groundwater.



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Old 11-04-2011, 9:50am   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Millenium Vette View Post
I have taken the liberty to remove most of the political statements from Phil's quote to focus on the statements I left in there, which I find interesting and would like to know more about. Even though I don't buy into the MMGW stuff, I am all for making things cleaner and more efficient, whether they are cars, trains, or factories, etc. Phil does seem to have great knowledge about how to accomplish that, but these threads always get sidetracked to politics and then the rhetoric begins (from both sides). I would like to know more about how we can pollute less and how to clean up already polluted things such as groundwater.



If you actually think Joecooool could possibly be right that China is leading in this area, well, I honestly don't know what to tell you.
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Old 11-04-2011, 9:52am   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cybercowboy View Post


Right. Actually the most vocal skeptics are not paid by anybody, most notably unlike the most vocal True Believers who are paid quite handsomely by the multi-billion $ MMGW industry.

And to address the OP, so you're saying WATER VAPOR has increased dramatically? Because, you know, WATER VAPOR is by far the biggest greenhouse gas of them all, having an overall effect on the order of 80:1 over CO2.

If you want to know where I stand on MMGW, I'm a skeptic and this scientist's recent speech is something I agree with very much. MMGW is a pseudoscience, and can be demonstrated as such. The skeptical line that disagrees with the conjecture that it is likely to be catastrophic unless drastic and expensive changes happen is actually based in sound science. It is, actually, just that simple.
Thanks for posting that speech.
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Old 11-04-2011, 9:59am   #39
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Would this help this discussion: I think "global warming" is a misnomer because it's so easy not to believe it's getting warmer when we're having the coldest Winters on record. The correct term is "climate change", which leads to both record high temps and low temps. I think this term makes the concept easier to agree on.

But, even if we agree on what to call it, is it any easier to change the climate than it is to stop global warming? No, not to any significant degree at all. Man certainly contributes to climate change, but man is not the sole cause of it, as Al Gore thinks, beause our planet will eventually either burn up or freeze on its own. We should do everything we can to lessen man's impact on climate change, but it's not a battle than can be won. There'll be 9 billion people on Earth by 2050; the most we can hope for is to hold our own.
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Old 11-04-2011, 10:03am   #40
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Quote:
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If you actually think Joecooool could possibly be right that China is leading in this area, well, I honestly don't know what to tell you.
I said most, not all, political statements have been removed. I don't doubt China is leading us in the manufacture of solar panels. All of the plants that made solar panels around here and broke ground to great fanfare as "green energy" manufacturers are either gone or almost gone. Do I think China is making their solar panels and not polluting, hell no!!!! I may have my head up my ass, but I still have a glass navel so I can see out.....
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