Noncompete clauses...

[...Whitepower...]

Don't recall if i signed one and can't find a copy at the house so maybe i didn't..

One of the new hires (sales) asked me if i signed a noncompete as he didn't and he thought it was odd that he wasn't asked too. There really is no way of obtaining a copy on the DL without putting my company on notice is there?

I was approached about a position and this was asked.

[GentleBen]

It would also depend on the state that you live in. For instance Virginia is a "right to work" state and basically legislated that Non-Compete letters and clauses in your employment contract are unenforceable.

You might want to check your state's rules.

Also, would you be going into a virtually identical role at the new company? If not, the differences could be significant enough that the non-compete if there is one, which is based upon your current position would not apply.

Please note that I am not a lawyer nor did I stay at a Holiday Express Inn last night.

[...Whitepower...]

Similar role.. Live in Ga and they revamped the laws 3 years back apparently reading up on it now.

Pretty certain i didn't.

[Craig]

I'm in GA. My wife used to work for an employment lawyer. She's told me in the past that if you're not an officer in your current company, they're not enforcable.

[...Whitepower...]

Good news is i didn't...

Just talked to my boss about a few things and casually asked him whatever happened with a guy they were looking to hire that had a noncompete that our attorneys got involved with. Apparently the guy opted out of the offer on his own.. I then casually asked if we have them as i couldn't recall after 4 years if i had signed one. He said no we haven't had them for years..

Bad news is it is on their radar to implement on the next wave of new hires and get all existing key staff to sign one as well.

Other projects just have priority for the time being.

At least i will be in front of it and can get an attorney to review it if it happens and make revisions to it.

[...Whitepower...]

Originally Posted by Craig

I'm in GA. My wife used to work for an employment lawyer. She's told me in the past that if you're not an officer in your current company, they're not enforcable.

If they go that route in the months to come i very well may reach out to you for her services and i will be happy to pay.

[Craig]

She was their office manager. The firm name is in your inbox.

[GS Ragtop]

Non-competes *are* enforceable in most states. At the very least, they can make you hire expensive lawyers and they scare the crap out of prospective employers.

If they aren't enforceable in your state, then your prospective employer wouldn't have asked if you signed one...

[...Whitepower...]

Originally Posted by GS Ragtop

Non-competes *are* enforceable in most states. At the very least, they can make you hire expensive lawyers and they scare the crap out of prospective employers.

If they aren't enforceable in your state, then your prospective employer wouldn't have asked if you signed one...

They are enforceable here and a few years back they changed to laws to side more with employers. My company is based out of the UK so i'm thinking this is more of an oversight than anything else.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by GS Ragtop

Non-competes *are* enforceable in most states. At the very least, they can make you hire expensive lawyers and they scare the crap out of prospective employers.

If they aren't enforceable in your state, then your prospective employer wouldn't have asked if you signed one...

My corporate attorney cousin in Michigan says they're not worth the paper they're written on.

Bottom line: A company can't legally prevent you from being employed in your field of expertise.

[Thunder22]

The way they got around it in one of the companies I worked for was to force employees to sign an agreement based on your level in the company that stipulated how much notice you must give if you resign and want to get your bonus.

Directors were 6 weeks.
Managing directors were 3 months.

Basically handcuffing you unless your new employer was flexible.

[CertInsaneC5]

Originally Posted by Dave

My corporate attorney cousin in Michigan says they're not worth the paper they're written on.

Bottom line: A company can't legally prevent you from being employed in your field of expertise.

I have signed two of them with this company over the years. Worthless endeavor. Especially as we are now a right to work state.

[Jay13]

Originally Posted by Dave

My corporate attorney cousin in Michigan says they're not worth the paper they're written on.

Bottom line: A company can't legally prevent you from being employed in your field of expertise.

One of the most misunderstood legal concepts ever, in large part because only the eggregious cases end up going to trial.

Noncompetes are generally valid provided they are reasonable in scope (what you are prevented from doing), time (how long you are prevented from doing it) and geography (where you are prohibited from doing it).

Take a pharmaceutical rep in Dallas making $25k/yr. A prohibition on accepting a sales position anywhere in the medical field anywhere in the US for a period of 5 years isn't likely to fly. A prohibition selling pharmaceuticals in direct competition with those previously sold within a 25 mile radius of previous sales calls and which applies for a period of three months is more likely to stand.

Everything is relative. So when you're a CFO of a Fortune 500 company who has made 7 figures the last few years, a prohibition on employment with a direct competitor (e.g., CVS vs Walgreens) may be reaonable even though its geographic scope ends up being national when you are talking about a CFO position. That, plus the fact that failing to abide by a noncompete can result in you to forfeiting substantial nonqualified deferred compensation, such as unvested stock options, is why you don't often see high profile noncompete cases go to trial.

The only absolute with non-competes is that there is no absolute. So while I generally agree with your "bottom line", I don't necessarily agree with your cousin's opinion that they are worth less than the cost of the paper.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Jay13

One of the most misunderstood legal concepts ever, in large part because only the eggregious cases end up going to trial.

Noncompetes are generally valid provided they are reasonable in scope (what you are prevented from doing), time (how long you are prevented from doing it) and geography (where you are prohibited from doing it).

Take a pharmaceutical rep in Dallas making $25k/yr. A prohibition on accepting a sales position anywhere in the medical field anywhere in the US for a period of 5 years isn't likely to fly. A prohibition selling pharmaceuticals in direct competition with those previously sold within a 25 mile radius of previous sales calls and which applies for a period of three months is more likely to stand.

Everything is relative. So when you're a CFO of a Fortune 500 company who has made 7 figures the last few years, a prohibition on employment with a direct competitor (e.g., CVS vs Walgreens) may be reaonable even though its geographic scope ends up being national when you are talking about a CFO position. That, plus the fact that failing to abide by a noncompete can result in you to forfeiting substantial nonqualified deferred compensation, such as unvested stock options, is why you don't often see high profile noncompete cases go to trial.

The only absolute with non-competes is that there is no absolute. So while I generally agree with your "bottom line", I don't necessarily agree with your cousin's opinion that they are worth less than the cost of the paper.

Nice write up. Before I went into business for myself, my last employer wanted me to sign one (I was a salesman). I told him, "sure, I'll sign, but since we are making our arrangement more formal, I'll also need an employment contract to go along with that non compete, and I want to know what I am being offered in exchange for signing the non compete (in addition to keeping my job." Well, that's where things went South. About a week later, after I refused to bow to pressure to sign the non compete, I was fired and escorted off the premises.

I thought in order to enforce a non compete, something of value (besides keeping your job) had to be proffered? Is this right?

[meflyfrc]

Its interesting to see this post today. I changed jobs just a little over two months ago. I work for a federal contractor as a business developer. Today I received a letter from my old employers attorney "reminding me" that I signed a non-compete. Whats interesting is they sent me copy of what I signed. It was a part of a stock option agreement if they went public. They never completed process, number of shares etc.... So they squashed the stock option program. Now they are trying to say it is an agreement. What they sent me was the clause that was the non-compete, and the signature page. The rest of the document was blank pages, approximately 20 pages. Called my attorney, faxed the document. He stated he sees this all the time, Virginia company. Said it scare tactics.

[NeedSpeed]

I've signed a few, and from what I've seen they're hard to enforce. On one side they are trying to get you to not release company secrets, but on the other they can't stop you from making a living. They have to prove you're giving up the secrets. Hard to do. We had one case when I worked at Brother where a big wig came to our R&D facility, then brought all of his buddies with. Yep, lawsuit. Except our R&D in America did nothing with printers and they came from a printer company. Not sure how it turned out moved on.....

[sanchez]

Originally Posted by ...Whitepower...

Good news is i didn't...

Just talked to my boss about a few things and casually asked him whatever happened with a guy they were looking to hire that had a noncompete that our attorneys got involved with. Apparently the guy opted out of the offer on his own.. I then casually asked if we have them as i couldn't recall after 4 years if i had signed one. He said no we haven't had them for years..

Bad news is it is on their radar to implement on the next wave of new hires and get all existing key staff to sign one as well.

Other projects just have priority for the time being.

At least i will be in front of it and can get an attorney to review it if it happens and make revisions to it.

Don't sign it for free. You are giving something up by signing it. They get all of the benefit. This should cost them something.

[Fastguy]

I signed one in 2002, quit in 2010 and got a "barking dog" letter from an attorney a month later. I had emailed my database and told them I switched jobs. They had no issue when I started with them in 2002 and emailed my database about switching to them. They wanted me to bring them my computer to wipe clean of email and delete my database.
I had an attorney send them back a letter telling them to pound sand and that was the end of it. It did really concern me at the time, now I look back and see it for what it was, scare tactics.