No Obamacare ~ God will protect you

[Exotix]

Originally Posted by Z06PDQ

what do you expect from a guy that gets all butt hurt mad when you bash the fat,junkie racist, junkie POS Rushbo?

did I mention junkie?

Yeah how can I forget ... they had to close that thread for *renovations* ... bloated with Rusbocontin-like flame-trolls ...

[Entropy]

Originally Posted by Exotix

Brewer spent Stimulus money on private prisons (one escaped and committed heinous murders on the run until he was caught and sent back to the same private prison) and a roof for a colesium but denied organ transplants to her own citizens on the cusp of those inviduals getting those organs ... they all died.


Palins' Death Panels caused by Obamacare are the ones you still believe exist. (probably because you didn't read the actual 2,000 page watered down to about 1,000 pages by the (R)'s so to make for better comfy-at-home reading in-between margeurita golf outings)

Don't assume that I will automatically back the Republicans, I have plenty of ire for them as well.

Is life fair? No. Far from it.
However in the attempt to make it "fair" you will be forced to do harm. Is it sad that those individuals died. Absolutely. Is it fair for them to expect others to fix their problems? Or even demand it? Absolutely not.

It's unfortunate the family was unable to raise the money, or have the insurance to pay for it, or work out a deal with the hospital to do some work pro bono, but that is life. It's inherently unfair.

I have no idea if they will create death panels, but if you don't have the ability to care for yourself, and depend on others to take care of you financially, what do you expect to happen when the money runs out?

[Exotix]

Originally Posted by Entropy

Don't assume that I will automatically back the Republicans, I have plenty of ire for them as well.

Is life fair? No. Far from it.
However in the attempt to make it "fair" you will be forced to do harm. Is it sad that those individuals died. Absolutely. Is it fair for them to expect others to fix their problems? Or even demand it? Absolutely not.

It's unfortunate the family was unable to raise the money, or have the insurance to pay for it, or work out a deal with the hospital to do some work pro bono, but that is life. It's inherently unfair.

I have no idea if they will create death panels, but if you don't have the ability to care for yourself, and depend on others to take care of you financially, what do you expect to happen when the money runs out?

You forgot the part where they spent a lifetime paying into Medicaid then in a blink of an eye Brewer rescinded transplants from Medicaid ... and the families couldn't come up with the money, about an additional $250,000 within a few days, or the length of time for an organ to remain viable for transplant before they have to give it to someone else ... and of course it's Obamas' fault ..


Two Dead Since Arizona Medicaid Program Slashed Transplant Coverage
Hospital Confirms Former Patient Died While Awaiting Liver Transplant

Jan. 6, 2011

Arizona Transplant Patients Die After State Cuts Medical Insurance - ABC News


Two Arizona Medicaid recipients denied potentially life-saving organ transplants have died, even as Arizona doctors, transplant survivors and some lawmakers push to restore health care benefits slashed last fall.



(See video where Brewer spent elsewhere)

[Entropy]

Originally Posted by Exotix

You forgot the part where they spent a lifetime paying into Medicaid then in a blink of an eye Brewer rescinded transplants from Medicaid ... and the families couldn't come up with the money, about an additional $250,000 within a few days, or the length of time for an organ to remain viable for transplant before they have to give it to someone else ... and of course it's Obamas' fault ..


Two Dead Since Arizona Medicaid Program Slashed Transplant Coverage
Hospital Confirms Former Patient Died While Awaiting Liver Transplant

Jan. 6, 2011

Arizona Transplant Patients Die After State Cuts Medical Insurance - ABC News


Two Arizona Medicaid recipients denied potentially life-saving organ transplants have died, even as Arizona doctors, transplant survivors and some lawmakers push to restore health care benefits slashed last fall.



(See video where Brewer spent elsewhere)

... and they have no legal recourse, since it's a federally funded program.

Do you see the issues you can have when you place your faith in the government? With a private company, they'd at least have the option to take them to court and possibly get a redress for their grievances.

[Exotix]

Originally Posted by Entropy

... and they have no legal recourse, since it's a federally funded program.

Do you see the issues you can have when you place your faith in the government? With a private company, they'd at least have the option to take them to court and possibly get a redress for their grievances.

You have a point ... what's the (Ariz. ) courtroom procedure and costs paid by the family for bringing in a cadaver before the costs of moving a cadaver in case theirs a change of venue ?

[Will]

Originally Posted by Exotix

Two Dead Since Arizona Medicaid Program Slashed Transplant Coverage
Hospital Confirms Former Patient Died While Awaiting Liver Transplant

Jan. 6, 2011

Arizona Transplant Patients Die After State Cuts Medical Insurance - ABC News


Two Arizona Medicaid recipients denied potentially life-saving organ transplants have died, even as Arizona doctors, transplant survivors and some lawmakers push to restore health care benefits slashed last fall.



(See video where Brewer spent elsewhere)

This supports my argument against Obamacare. MEDICARE AND MEDICAID ARE BROKEN and the idiotic democrats want to ignore the problem and create a whole new one. GMAFB. Fix Medicare/Medicaid, then expand coverage to the 10-20 million Americans who (1) actually are U.S. citizens (2) actually cannot afford insurance.

Obamacare instead assaults the rest of us, will cost Hundreds of Billions, does NOT effectively address the REAL causes of cost increases, etc.

It's shrouded in lies, and it's true aim is socialism. The day after it passed Obama was telling his followers it was just the first step on the road to single payer.

With a mild payroll tax increase and a lifting of the cap around $100,000 (both of which could be off-set by an equivalent REDUCTION to personal income taxes) you could fix medicare and add the millions of Americans Democrats claim this is all about helping, all WITHOUT harassing the rest of us and wreaking the havoc Obamacare will.

An excerpt from a paper I wrote critiquing the new law:

A. Straightforward Expansion of Medicare

As of 2008, Medicare covered 45.2 million Americans, including 37.8 million Americans aged 65 and older, and 7.4 million "disabled" Americans. (99) 2008 Medicare expenditures were just shy of 391 billion dollars. (100) This amounted to an average expenditure of 8,650 dollars per person. (101) If 23 million U.S. citizens were added to the Medicare rolls, the added annual expense would be just shy of 200 billion dollars, assuming the average expenditure per patient would be the same for the new enrollees as current enrollees. (102) The total taxable adjusted gross income for all federal income tax returns filed by individuals in the U.S. in 2007 was $8,799,000,000,000. (103) If the cap on payroll taxes was lifted, a payroll tax increase of 2.27%, or a 1.14% increase for both employers and employees, would be enough to generate an additional 200 billion dollars in revenue. (104) A payroll tax increase of 4%, or 2% for both employers and employees, would generate an additional 352 billion dollars in revenue (105) —more than enough to both cover 23 million more patients and reverse the tide of ever-shrinking reimbursements to healthcare providers discussed in Part I(B) above.

Originally Posted by Footnotes

#99 U.S. Census Bureau, The 2010 Statistical Abstract, Health & Nutrition: Medicare, Medicaid, Table 139: Medicare Enrollees, available at http://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/10s0139.xls (last accessed 9/23/2010).

#100 U.S. Government Printing Office, Budget of the United States Government: Historical Tables Fiscal Year 2011, Table 3.1 — Outlays by Superfunction and Function: 1940–2015, available at http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy...s/hist03z1.xls (last accessed 9/24/2010).

#101 391,000,000,000 ÷ 45,200,000 = 8,650

#102 In reality, average expenditures per patient would be much lower for the new enrollees, as the elderly and the disabled who already qualify for Medicare are the most costly patients to cover.

#103 Gerald Prante, Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data, The Tax Foundation, available at The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data (July 30, 2009) (last accessed 9/24/2010).

#104 200,000,000,000 ÷ 8,799,000,000,000 = 0.0227.

#105 8,799,000,000,000 * 0.04 = 351,960,000,000.

#106 See supra note 93.

[Exotix]

Originally Posted by Will

This supports my argument against Obamacare. MEDICARE AND MEDICAID ARE BROKEN and the idiotic democrats want to ignore the problem and create a whole new one. GMAFB. Fix Medicare/Medicaid, then expand coverage to the 10-20 million Americans who (1) actually are U.S. citizens (2) actually cannot afford insurance.

Obamacare instead assaults the rest of us, will cost Hundreds of Billions, does NOT effectively address the REAL causes of cost increases, etc.

It's shrouded in lies, and it's true aim is socialism. The day after it passed Obama was telling his followers it was just the first step on the road to single payer.

With a mild payroll tax increase and a lifting of the cap around $100,000 (both of which could be off-set by an equivalent REDUCTION to personal income taxes) you could fix medicare and add the millions of Americans Democrats claim this is all about helping, all WITHOUT harassing the rest of us and wreaking the havoc Obamacare will.

An excerpt from a paper I wrote critiquing the new law:

Fine ... what's your critique on income quintiles to healthcare costs that affect the overall growth of an economy based on historical data especially that data concerning the current recession/depression ?

[Will]

Originally Posted by Exotix

Fine ... what's your critique on income quintiles to healthcare costs that affect the overall growth of an economy based on historical data especially that data concerning the current recession/depression ?

(1) Why are you changing the subject and asking me a question unrelated to my post/position?

(2) Your question, as worded, makes no sense.

(3) Please supply whatever data you wish me to comment on.

(4) Please explain what it has to do with the fact that Obamacare is an idiotic and inefficient way of solving whatever problem exists.

[Exotix]

Originally Posted by Will

(1) Why are you changing the subject and asking me a question unrelated to my post/position?

(2) Your question, as worded, makes no sense.

(3) Please supply whatever data you wish me to comment on.

(4) Please explain what it has to do with the fact that Obamacare is an idiotic and inefficient way of solving whatever problem exists.

Oh, you're a Law student who wants me to talk like a layman ... fine.

For years you've proposed that Reagonomics is the one true way to American economic *freedom* ... I lived in California when Reagan was Governor ... the first thing that happened was that he emptied the mental hospitals and Sacramento was flooded with mentally-deranged people walking the streets ... it was so bad, a tent city had to be made ... it's there to this day .. and Jared Loughner (Tucson Killer) was a by-product of Reagans' *The Evils of Socialized Mediicine* policy ...

At what point are there *diminshing returns* ... costs with regards to people and their health to security and health of a nation ?

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Exotix

Depends on what the definition of socialism is ... is ... the right-wing wants you to believe that the Europeans' & Canadians' healthcare is lousy despite longevity and better health and as a neccessary contrubution to the economy ...

I for one believe that the right-wing uses the term socialsim to infer Obama Gulags as opposed to Bush/Cheny FEMA camps for Libs ...

OK... YOU define socialism... Seriously. Rather than sidestepping, changing the subject, and throwing insults, define the word socialism.

[Exotix]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

OK... YOU define socialism... Seriously. Rather than sidestepping, changing the subject, and throwing insults, define the word socialism.

From my perspective it's a psuedo-govt. regulated economy ... but hell, it took 50 years to create the EU to emerge as a major trading block such that the value of the euro on the global markets can withstand it's most impoverished debtor/deficit members' *economic inconsistencies* ...

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Exotix

From my perspective it's a psuedo-govt. regulated economy ...

OK...and what is it that the Obama administration is pushing for more of?

I didn't ask if you were for it, against it or indifferent...

True or False. Obama has from day 1 pushed for increased government regulation of the economy.

[Exotix]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

OK...and what is it that the Obama administration is pushing for more of?

Socialism/Communism/National Socialist Fascism ?

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Exotix

Socialism/Communism/National Socialist Fascism ?

Your standard reply... At least change it up from time to time.


By YOUR definition, Socialism is government regulated economy.

It is not a secret that the current administration is continuously pushing for more and more regulation. Whether the country needs it or not is irrelevant. Whether you think it is a good thing is completely irrelevant.

If you can't make the connection... well...

You are so closed minded that you would never for one instant consider that there are other ways of doing things and that people who see things in different ways than you might be right. You have proven that time and time again.

With that said. Some battles aren't worth fighting and some people aren't worth fighting with. This is one of those times.

[Will]

Originally Posted by Exotix

Oh, you're a Law student who wants me to talk like a layman ... fine.

WTF?


At what point are there *diminshing returns* ... costs with regards to people and their health to security and health of a nation ?[/QUOTE]

WTF?


The makers of Rosetta Stone mrvette edition need to get to work on yours next.

Talking to you is like talking to downs baby.

[Exotix]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Your standard reply... At least change it up from time to time.


By YOUR definition, Socialism is government regulated economy.

It is not a secret that the current administration is continuously pushing for more and more regulation. Whether the country needs it or not is irrelevant. Whether you think it is a good thing is completely irrelevant.

If you can't make the connection... well...

Well again it depends ... and it goes to my asking Wills' recommendation on *diminshing returns* ... at what point does the Govt. *intervene* ... this is important because FDR didn't *intervene* in our *capitalistic* markets ... he insured that people wouldn't be so badly ruined if *capitalism* ever failed again ...


... despite what todays *McCarthyists* ~ Palin, Bachmann, Beckerhead, Rushbocontin and the Congressional Bush neocons still in office say ... who got us here today the same way their hero Hoover did ..

[Exotix]

Originally Posted by Will

WTF?


At what point are there *diminshing returns* ... costs with regards to people and their health to security and health of a nation ?

WTF?

The makers of Rosetta Stone mrvette edition need to get to work on yours next.

Talking to you is like talking to downs baby.[/QUOTE]

If you have something important to say, say it ... post a graph or something in compliance with my request .... otherwise quit trying to involve me in your dementias ... it didn't play out way way back in CFPR&C and certainly won't play it out here where you don't have Grumpy and mhlls' panties to hide in ...

[Broken Wind]

Wtf?????????

[Exotix]

Originally Posted by Broken Wind

Wtf?????????

That's what I say every time I see your username ... Broken Wind ? ... goes to your *nature* here ...

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Exotix

...it didn't play out way way back in CFPR&C ...

Like I said, I am done with the political argument but from a personal side... you really need to let that go. I don't know what happened over there (and don't really care) but damn man. You bring it up in every thread!