The wife is on autotrader looking at prices of used.....

[...Whitepower...]

Originally Posted by carlton_fritz

Beautiful cars, but the new one is much nicer.

And two times more expensive..

[Chuck A]

Originally Posted by carlton_fritz

WOW, that jag looks sharp

[NB2K]

Originally Posted by lspencer534

You're close, but it needs refining. Ford bought Jaguar in 1989 (for $2.38B), but the first Ford-influenced Jaguar was the 1997 model. Prior to 1997 Ford concentrated on improving production efficiency and quality of the 1997 model. Now, two things usually happen when a big company takes over a smaller one: A massive infusion of cash (good) and a massive influx of managers (not good). Ford chose to let Jaguar style its own cars and to meddle only with production and quality. That paid off, at least in terms of quality. Quality drastically improved beginning in 1997, and since then Jaguar Jaguar approached Lexus in quality, even tying with them one year.

Jaguars as tin cans? Not from 1997 on. They are solid, heavy, reliable cars, and the "R" engine is screaming fast. They are a somewhat peculiar breed in one respect: They have shied away from 'gadgets', that abundance of mysterious controls and devices like those found in BMW's. I've owned 4, going back to 1986, currently have a 2008 XK8. The 2008 has everything I need on a car, nothing I don't need. Very few models, very little optional equipment. As I recall my 2008 had Alpine stereo, satellite radio, I-Pod plugin, and 20-inch wheels as the only options.

That said, it is very difficult to judge the condition of a used Jaguar because of the massive amounts of insulation and dampeners on the car. The car can have expensive problems that you can't detect from driving it and listening to it. And, Jaguars are not cheap to repair. FWIW, my 1998 XK8 had 143K miles on it when I sold it, and the only problem I had with it was a leaking heater hose. But, that's not an easy problem to fix because that hose runs under the intake manifold. I was able to fix it myself (I just prayed that the car would ever run again after I raised up the manifold), but parts were over $300.

BTW, Ford never made any money from Jaguar the entire time it was the owner.

I agree re: the "gadgets".. We stayed away from BMW b/c every time we looked at the dealership, the service line was a mile long.

I have watched this deal closely as I think Ford should get credit for saving Jag.
My "bulldozer" comment was a quote from a Ford exec who , after touring Jaguar's crappy factory, said, "Their's nothing wrong with this factory that a good bulldozer couldn't cure".
It's too bad they had to sell, I have doubts as to whether TATA can keep it going.

[lspencer534]

Originally Posted by NB2K

I agree re: the "gadgets".. We stayed away from BMW b/c every time we looked at the dealership, the service line was a mile long.

I have watched this deal closely as I think Ford should get credit for saving Jag.
My "bulldozer" comment was a quote from a Ford exec who , after touring Jaguar's crappy factory, said, "Their's nothing wrong with this factory that a good bulldozer couldn't cure".
It's too bad they had to sell, I have doubts as to whether TATA can keep it going.

Me too. Tata makes small, inexpensive cars and work trucks for the masses in India, etc. Now it owns 2 luxury brands--is it going to know even how to market them? Plus, Tata is ruthless in laying off workers and trying to save a buck anywhere possible. The term "Warranty by Tata Motors" isn't confidence inspiring.

[NB2K]

Originally Posted by lspencer534

[/B]

Me too. Tata makes small, inexpensive cars and work trucks for the masses in India, etc. Now it owns 2 luxury brands--is it going to know even how to market them? Plus, Tata is ruthless in laying off workers and trying to save a buck anywhere possible. The term "Warranty by Tata Motors" isn't confidence inspiring.

Good points. Also, they have only competed (?) as monopoly before. Let's see how they do in a competitive market.

My gut says they are going to cough up a hairball.

[vetteman9368]

Originally Posted by carlton_fritz

I wonder how Much Aston Martin is suing them for over the copying of their design...........that's even worse than some of the early Lexus "benz" ripoffs

[lspencer534]

Originally Posted by vetteman9368

I wonder how Much Aston Martin is suing them for over the copying of their design...........that's even worse than some of the early Lexus "benz" ripoffs

Both were designed by the same person, Ian Callum. So who should sue whom?

[polarbear]

Originally Posted by lspencer534

BTW, Ford never made any money from Jaguar the entire time it was the owner.

I think the actual loss totalled over $10B, not including the almost complete destruction of the Lincoln-Mercury Division as Jaguar swallowed the majority of the luxury R&D resources.

[Frizzle]

Originally Posted by vetteman9368

I wonder how Much Aston Martin is suing them for over the copying of their design...........that's even worse than some of the early Lexus "benz" ripoffs

AM and Jaguar were once both owned by Ford and used the same designer. It will take several years before Tata designs Jaguars that are completely different from AMs.

I wouldn't be surprised if Tata sells Jaguar in 10 years and Ford buys em back.

[carlton_fritz]

Originally Posted by Chuck A

WOW, that jag looks sharp

First time I saw one I wondered what it was. Thought maybe a new Ferrari or Astin or sonthin.

[polarbear]

Originally Posted by Frizzle

AM and Jaguar were once both owned by Ford and used the same designer. It will take several years before Tata designs Jaguars that are completely different from AMs.

I wouldn't be surprised if Tata sells Jaguar in 10 years and Ford buys em back.

Absolutely won't happen. The main thing Ford learned about their "other brand" purchases is something Toyota's said for years. It's not just the question of profitability, but the fact that it compromises your focus on your existing product and marketing plans.