Choose your color scheme:
The Vette Barn  
 
Go Back   The Vette Barn > Off Topic/Babes/Other > Politics & Religion

Politics & Religion Discussion of politics and religion

User Tag List

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-21-2011, 6:13pm   #21
73sbVert
Moderator
Barn Stall Owner #20
Barn Stall Owner #33

Barn Raising I,II
NCM Supporter '11,'13,'14,'20,'21
Bantayan Kids '13
Points: 30,399, Level: 100
Activity: 1.4%
 
73sbVert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 24,173
Thanks: 16,751
Thanked 3,291 Times in 1,955 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $988270
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z06PDQ View Post
the "line" was passed a long time ago. do we take ourselves back to the 1800's or do we progress? ....oh yeah...I forgot...you guys hate that word "progress" because it's in Progressive.
Stop getting all defensive now. We're having a good quality argument here, no one else is being combative. Defend your position. I've stated mine, others have stated theirs, you've not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z06PDQ View Post
*I* "let them vote?" show me how taking several human lives at a frat party is worse than voting for a black man with a funny name?
What human lives lost at a frat party? Are you projecting on what MIGHT happen based on your opinion?? Got any statistics that back up your position? You seem to be condemning them before the fact, which is another form of discrimination, no?


And most of whom I agree with could give 2 shits what color he is, or how funny his name might be. His platform and policies suck. Period. The LEFT is who makes the presumption that it is his race or (suspected) religion that is the cause of all the angst.
73sbVert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2011, 6:34pm   #22
Z06PDQ
A Real Barner
Points: 14,229, Level: 82
Activity: 0%
 
Z06PDQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lone Star State
Posts: 3,547
Thanks: 2,080
Thanked 394 Times in 336 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $16626
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 73sbVert View Post
Stop getting all defensive now. We're having a good quality argument here, no one else is being combative. Defend your position. I've stated mine, others have stated theirs, you've not.



What human lives lost at a frat party? Are you projecting on what MIGHT happen based on your opinion?? Got any statistics that back up your position?


And most of whom I agree with could give 2 shits what color he is, or how funny his name might be, his platform and policies suck. Period. The LEFT is who makes the presumption that it is his race or (suspected) religion that is the cause of all the angst.
I work with a guy who's daughter was shot in the face at a frat party a couple of years ago in OKC. she is recovering, but she was set back for years by this stupidity. how can this situation get any better if we take the "arm everyone to the teeth" mentality overboard ? maybe if she had a gun could she have quickdrawn & shot her assailant first like Marshall Dillon? is that what we want? is that the kind of society we are headed for? like I said, I will always arm & protect myself & I have no problems doing so, but I'm a grown man & way past student age & I remember some of the crazy shit I did back then. I just wonder if we are setting ourselves up for more Arizona like scenarios. I sure as hell don't want my second amendment weakened any more & I don't want to see any more public bloodbaths that make the voters want to take away our guns.
Z06PDQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2011, 7:10pm   #23
73sbVert
Moderator
Barn Stall Owner #20
Barn Stall Owner #33

Barn Raising I,II
NCM Supporter '11,'13,'14,'20,'21
Bantayan Kids '13
Points: 30,399, Level: 100
Activity: 1.4%
 
73sbVert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 24,173
Thanks: 16,751
Thanked 3,291 Times in 1,955 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $988270
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z06PDQ View Post
I work with a guy who's daughter was shot in the face at a frat party a couple of years ago in OKC. she is recovering, but she was set back for years by this stupidity. how can this situation get any better if we take the "arm everyone to the teeth" mentality overboard ? maybe if she had a gun could she have quickdrawn & shot her assailant first like Marshall Dillon? is that what we want? is that the kind of society we are headed for? like I said, I will always arm & protect myself & I have no problems doing so, but I'm a grown man & way past student age & I remember some of the crazy shit I did back then. I just wonder if we are setting ourselves up for more Arizona like scenarios. I sure as hell don't want my second amendment weakened any more & I don't want to see any more public bloodbaths that make the voters want to take away our guns.
Ok, you have some personal interest invested in this. That's fine. But statistically speaking, one incident in how many thousands or more frat parties? More than likely some sort of armament available?? (not just a firearm either)

I'm not saying "armed to the teeth" either. Most info that I've seen prior (sorry can't seem to find the link now), showed that on average, only about 4% of a given population actually goes all the way to being armed, even in the free states. That 4% unknown quantity to the criminals is sufficient to convince them to move on.

All those previous places where massacres occurred were only as successful because the general populace was UNarmed, and forcibly so.

If those students and staff have to meet the same requisites as everybody else (including the older farts like us) in qualifying for a concealed carry permit (and most states have quite a rigmarole to meet), then who are you to say that they are not worthy of protecting themselves? Also, are you aware that MOST states MINIMUM requirement is that if you are carrying, you can NOT consume alcohol? Even here in AZ, you make the choice of either drinking, or carrying. No in between.
If you have been drinking and are found to be carrying, you face very stiff penalties.


You seem to have them all convicted before any of them committed any crime. Those who go through the trouble of qualifying to carry are NOT the problem. The CRIMINALS are the problem. Concentrate on making the punishment worse enough to be a deterrent, then the problems would go away.
73sbVert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2011, 7:22pm   #24
ChasC5
Banned
Points: 18,058, Level: 92
Activity: 0%
 
ChasC5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Where Cons Fear
Posts: 7,146
Thanks: 369
Thanked 410 Times in 376 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $37320
biggrin

I say give them all Guns, let them succeed, give them that fence they want and lets sit back and watch the show.
ChasC5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2011, 7:55pm   #25
Z06PDQ
A Real Barner
Points: 14,229, Level: 82
Activity: 0%
 
Z06PDQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lone Star State
Posts: 3,547
Thanks: 2,080
Thanked 394 Times in 336 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $16626
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 73sbVert View Post
Ok, you have some personal interest invested in this. That's fine. But statistically speaking, one incident in how many thousands or more frat parties? More than likely some sort of armament available?? (not just a firearm either)

I'm not saying "armed to the teeth" either. Most info that I've seen prior (sorry can't seem to find the link now), showed that on average, only about 4% of a given population actually goes all the way to being armed, even in the free states. That 4% unknown quantity to the criminals is sufficient to convince them to move on.

All those previous places where massacres occurred were only as successful because the general populace was UNarmed, and forcibly so.

If those students and staff have to meet the same requisites as everybody else (including the older farts like us) in qualifying for a concealed carry permit (and most states have quite a rigmarole to meet), then who are you to say that they are not worthy of protecting themselves? Also, are you aware that MOST states MINIMUM requirement is that if you are carrying, you can NOT consume alcohol? Even here in AZ, you make the choice of either drinking, or carrying. No in between.
If you have been drinking and are found to be carrying, you face very stiff penalties.
You seem to have them all convicted before any of them committed any crime. Those who go through the trouble of qualifying to carry are NOT the problem. The CRIMINALS are the problem. Concentrate on making the punishment worse enough to be a deterrent, then the problems would go away.
it all looks good on paper, but who the hell goes into a club & doesn't drink? let's be real.some, but not that many. we'll see how it all plays out, but I think the people that are grandstanding while playing with my second amendment are doing a disservice to what our Founders had in mind & are doing us more harm than good as gun owners.
Z06PDQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2011, 8:16pm   #26
73sbVert
Moderator
Barn Stall Owner #20
Barn Stall Owner #33

Barn Raising I,II
NCM Supporter '11,'13,'14,'20,'21
Bantayan Kids '13
Points: 30,399, Level: 100
Activity: 1.4%
 
73sbVert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 24,173
Thanks: 16,751
Thanked 3,291 Times in 1,955 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $988270
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z06PDQ View Post
it all looks good on paper, but who the hell goes into a club & doesn't drink? let's be real.some, but not that many. we'll see how it all plays out, but I think the people that are grandstanding while playing with my second amendment are doing a disservice to what our Founders had in mind & are doing us more harm than good as gun owners.
Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree then.

I think we're both on the same side of the 2A, but my opinion is that we should all have the opportunity to protect ourselves, not just a select few.

73sbVert is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 73sbVert For This Useful Post:
Old 02-21-2011, 8:19pm   #27
Z06PDQ
A Real Barner
Points: 14,229, Level: 82
Activity: 0%
 
Z06PDQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lone Star State
Posts: 3,547
Thanks: 2,080
Thanked 394 Times in 336 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $16626
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 73sbVert View Post
Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree then.

I think we're both on the same side of the 2A, but my opinion is that we should all have the opportunity to protect ourselves, not just a select few.

fair enough.
Z06PDQ is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Z06PDQ For This Useful Post:
Old 02-21-2011, 8:24pm   #28
ChasC5
Banned
Points: 18,058, Level: 92
Activity: 0%
 
ChasC5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Where Cons Fear
Posts: 7,146
Thanks: 369
Thanked 410 Times in 376 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $37320
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 73sbVert View Post
Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree then.

I think we're both on the same side of the 2A, but my opinion is that we should all have the opportunity to protect ourselves, not just a select few.

Wait a minute there, not all. There's lot I wouldn't trust with a blunt spoon.

There needs to be standards (regulations)
ChasC5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2011, 9:28pm   #29
Peter Pan
Charter Member
Barn Stall Owner #58
Points: 9,221, Level: 66
Activity: 0%
 
Peter Pan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Converse, Texas
Posts: 2,776
Thanks: 206
Thanked 214 Times in 175 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $13154
Default

I am one of those unlucky to be robbed at a young adult age at gun point and I had no gun, lucky they only wanted my wallet for money, when where and how old.

1976
Las Vegas (In the Air Force and staying in a hotel while looking for a place to live)
18 with wife

Do I carry now, what do you think
Peter Pan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2011, 9:41pm   #30
Exotix
Banned
Points: 12,642, Level: 77
Activity: 0%
 
Exotix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,147
Thanks: 346
Thanked 507 Times in 434 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $0
Default

Let's hear from one'a'tha Austin bruthas ...


Exotix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2011, 9:44pm   #31
Z06PDQ
A Real Barner
Points: 14,229, Level: 82
Activity: 0%
 
Z06PDQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lone Star State
Posts: 3,547
Thanks: 2,080
Thanked 394 Times in 336 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $16626
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Pan View Post
what do you think
I think if a criminal knows you might be armed he will blow your shit away immediately. why not? why should he take the chance?
Z06PDQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2011, 10:15pm   #32
bill_daniels
10cm member
Barn Stall Owner #90125

NCM Supporter '19,'20
Points: 219,989, Level: 100
Activity: 99.4%
 
bill_daniels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Houston, Tejas, Estados Unidos
Posts: 80,893
Thanks: 36,586
Thanked 41,075 Times in 17,078 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $2621492
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z06PDQ View Post
I remember Charles Whitman. I remember the Luby's massacre. I carry occasionally, but if a criminal thinks I might be armed he's going to blow my shit away immediately if he's smart. it's getting like Tombstone or Dodge City all over again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2Kvert4me View Post
Because no one anywhere has ever been shot where guns are prohibited.
Irony alert. Charles Whitman was able to gun people down from the University of Texas clock tower with impunity precisely because there weren't any armed folks around to stop him.

And how was Whitman able to bring guns on the campus? That isn't permitted, right, so how did he get the weapons to the tower?

From Wiki:

Sniper fire commences
Main building of the University of Texas at Austin from where Whitman, who was just under the clocks, fired upon those below.The first shots from the tower's outer deck came at approximately 11:48 a.m. A history professor was the first to phone the Austin Police Department, after seeing several students shot in the South Mall gathering center; many others had dismissed the rifle reports, not realizing they were gunfire. Eventually, the shootings caused panic as news spread and, after the situation was understood, all active police officers in Austin were ordered to the campus. Other off-duty officers, Travis County Sheriff's deputies, and Texas Department of Public Safety troopers also converged on the area to assist.

Around 20 minutes later, once Whitman began facing return fire from the authorities and armed civilians who had brought out their personal firearms to assist police, he used the waterspouts on each side of the tower as gun ports, allowing him to continue shooting largely protected from the gunfire below but also greatly limiting his range of targets. Ramiro Martinez, an officer who participated in stopping Whitman's rampage, later stated that the civilian shooters should be credited as they made it difficult for him to take careful aim.[22] Police lieutenant Marion Lee reported from a small airplane that there was only a single sniper firing from the observation deck. The airplane circled the tower while Lee tried to shoot Whitman, but turbulence made it difficult for him to get a clear shot. The airplane, piloted by Jim Boutwell, was hit by Whitman's rifle fire but continued to circle the tower from a safe distance until the end of the incident.

Whitman's choice of victims was indiscriminate; most of them were shot on Guadalupe Street, a major commercial and business district across from the west side of the campus. Efforts to reach the wounded included an armored car and ambulances run by local funeral homes. Ambulance driver Morris Hohmann was responding to victims on West 23rd Street when he was shot in the leg, severing an artery. Another ambulance driver quickly attended to Hohmann, who was then taken about ten blocks south of UT to Brackenridge Hospital, which had the only local emergency room. The Brackenridge administrator declared an emergency, and medical staff raced there to reinforce the on-duty shifts. Following the shootings, volunteers donated blood at both Brackenridge and the Travis County Blood Bank.
bill_daniels is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2011, 10:44pm   #33
Z06PDQ
A Real Barner
Points: 14,229, Level: 82
Activity: 0%
 
Z06PDQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lone Star State
Posts: 3,547
Thanks: 2,080
Thanked 394 Times in 336 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $16626
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill_daniels View Post
Irony alert. Charles Whitman was able to gun people down from the University of Texas clock tower with impunity precisely because there weren't any armed folks around to stop him.

And how was Whitman able to bring guns on the campus? That isn't permitted, right, so how did he get the weapons to the tower?

From Wiki:

Sniper fire commences
Main building of the University of Texas at Austin from where Whitman, who was just under the clocks, fired upon those below.The first shots from the tower's outer deck came at approximately 11:48 a.m. A history professor was the first to phone the Austin Police Department, after seeing several students shot in the South Mall gathering center; many others had dismissed the rifle reports, not realizing they were gunfire. Eventually, the shootings caused panic as news spread and, after the situation was understood, all active police officers in Austin were ordered to the campus. Other off-duty officers, Travis County Sheriff's deputies, and Texas Department of Public Safety troopers also converged on the area to assist.

Around 20 minutes later, once Whitman began facing return fire from the authorities and armed civilians who had brought out their personal firearms to assist police, he used the waterspouts on each side of the tower as gun ports, allowing him to continue shooting largely protected from the gunfire below but also greatly limiting his range of targets. Ramiro Martinez, an officer who participated in stopping Whitman's rampage, later stated that the civilian shooters should be credited as they made it difficult for him to take careful aim.[22] Police lieutenant Marion Lee reported from a small airplane that there was only a single sniper firing from the observation deck. The airplane circled the tower while Lee tried to shoot Whitman, but turbulence made it difficult for him to get a clear shot. The airplane, piloted by Jim Boutwell, was hit by Whitman's rifle fire but continued to circle the tower from a safe distance until the end of the incident.

Whitman's choice of victims was indiscriminate; most of them were shot on Guadalupe Street, a major commercial and business district across from the west side of the campus. Efforts to reach the wounded included an armored car and ambulances run by local funeral homes. Ambulance driver Morris Hohmann was responding to victims on West 23rd Street when he was shot in the leg, severing an artery. Another ambulance driver quickly attended to Hohmann, who was then taken about ten blocks south of UT to Brackenridge Hospital, which had the only local emergency room. The Brackenridge administrator declared an emergency, and medical staff raced there to reinforce the on-duty shifts. Following the shootings, volunteers donated blood at both Brackenridge and the Travis County Blood Bank.
ok ....so today's Whitman can carry & be legal. gotcha. [like Loughner]
Z06PDQ is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Z06PDQ For This Useful Post:
Old 02-22-2011, 12:37am   #34
Peter Pan
Charter Member
Barn Stall Owner #58
Points: 9,221, Level: 66
Activity: 0%
 
Peter Pan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Converse, Texas
Posts: 2,776
Thanks: 206
Thanked 214 Times in 175 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $13154
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z06PDQ View Post
I think if a criminal knows you might be armed he will blow your shit away immediately. why not? why should he take the chance?
At 18 that was true, not today
Peter Pan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

The Vette Barn > Off Topic/Babes/Other > Politics & Religion


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 8:18pm.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 2009 - 2024 The Vette Barn


Support the Barn:
 
Download the Mobile App;
 
Follow us on Facebook:

Become a Stall Owner

 

Apple iOS App        Google Android App

 

Visit our Facebook page