Daughter in law just found out she was on the Air Force's cut list - Page 4

jaxgator · 02-25-2014, 2:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxAg

I have no issue with giving aid to certain countries at certain times.

But the rate and frequency we "spread the wealth" is a joke.

I guess I should have been a little more specific as I agree with what you are saying. Just look at all that shit we gave to the Saudis. They are rich as shit off of oil sales and the we give them cash and military equipment?

bsmith · 02-25-2014, 2:52pm

Nutsack 2016

NavyC5 · 02-25-2014, 4:49pm

Phil,

I'm very knowledgeable on this process and you're oversimplifying it a lot. Having been working the current Force Shaping process for the past several months I can tell you two things. One, it's not as arbitrary as you make it out to be. And two, the AF is separating the people with issues first.

If you would like all the details and how the process is working, I'm happy to educate you. However, you should know/post all the facts before blasting the institution that I have spent the last 17 years of my life serving in.

Joecooool · 02-25-2014, 5:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NavyC5

Phil,

I'm very knowledgeable on this process and you're oversimplifying it a lot. Having been working the current Force Shaping process for the past several months I can tell you two things. One, it's not as arbitrary as you make it out to be. And two, the AF is separating the people with issues first.

If you would like all the details and how the process is working, I'm happy to educate you. However, you should know/post all the facts before blasting the institution that I have spent the last 17 years of my life serving in.

Ryan,

They have to get rid of 25 people in her unit, and the list they put together was based on promotion dates, not issues. She doesn't have any or they wouldn't have just promoted her.

Perhaps of the 21 people on the list before her some of them have issues, but from what I understand, most do not. The job she has and the requirements for the security clearance weeds people out pretty quickly when issues develop.

The absurd thing about the whole situation is that they are still recruiting people for those jobs, processing their clearances and putting them through school. Why on earth would they do that when they are already going to have to let go of so many people?

And if you are not a screw up, why can't they let you just change your MOS? Wouldn't the Air Force rather have a trained person they know is competent rather than an unknown new trainee?

Don't take any of this personally, as you know I'm a vet too. That doesn't mean we can't get angry when we perceive an injustice being done.

RedLS1GTO · 02-25-2014, 6:12pm

I don't claim to know anything about the current happenings and who is being chosen and why, but I do know for a fact that this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joecooool

She doesn't have any or they wouldn't have just promoted her.

And this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joecooool

The job she has and the requirements for the security clearance weeds people out pretty quickly when issues develop.

...couldn't possibly be farther from the truth.

I've been with commands where the clearances are as high as it gets and there are just as many F-ups per capita as any other command... I would venture to say it might even be more. A security clearance doesn't in any way, shape, or form mean that you don't have issues. For the other part, a promotion being an argument that a person doesn't have issues is just laughable.

69camfrk · 02-25-2014, 6:27pm

Phil, nothing is off the table at this point. The unit I am in, 116ACW here at Robins is getting chopped off at the knees. I am a civilian technician in the Air National Guard, and we are going to lose folks too. The active duty side of the house (461ACW) is also cutting back, and I imagine that is going to get ugly too. I know several guys that are getting "boarded". Call it what you want, but that is just another term for "your ass is gone, thanks for playing". I am over 20 years in the Guard, but that said, I don't get any form of retirement until I'm 60 years old out of the military side. There are way too many of us that put lock, stock, and barrel into the retirement system etc. and if they want us gone, all they have to do is "non retain" us on the military side and we automatically lose our civilian job since we are considered "dual status". Starting fiscal year '15 we are going to start losing tails and will be dropping down to 10 aircraft. It does not look good.

Jeff '79 · 02-25-2014, 7:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NavyC5

Phil,

One, it's not as arbitrary as you make it out to be. And two, the AF is separating the people with issues first.

Maybe that's why his daughter wasn't axed right off the bat.

Craig · 02-25-2014, 7:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joecooool

Don't take any of this personally, as you know I'm a vet too. That doesn't mean we can't get angry when we perceive an injustice being done.

Is she and the others getting any kind of separation comp?

SnikPlosskin · 02-25-2014, 7:49pm

So much delicious OP fail here.

Your daughter will be fine. We have to pay for everybody's health insurance somehow.

The reason the military is being cut is pure ideology of YOUR party.

Grey Ghost · 02-25-2014, 8:19pm

The only thing safe with the current administration are the social welfare programs. They won't cut a dollar related to them. The money that was in the military budget, NASA, etc...will be routed to Obamacare, and welfare programs.

boracayjohnny · 02-25-2014, 9:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NavyC5

Phil,

I'm very knowledgeable on this process and you're oversimplifying it a lot. Having been working the current Force Shaping process for the past several months I can tell you two things. One, it's not as arbitrary as you make it out to be. And two, the AF is separating the people with issues first.

If you would like all the details and how the process is working, I'm happy to educate you. However, you should know/post all the facts before blasting the institution that I have spent the last 17 years of my life serving in.

Thanks for the clarification, Ryan. It is nice to know there is some sense in the Rifs. I can see it now. Fat boy/girl won't reduce weight after given much more than one chance...gone. Mr. I got a dui while being watched due to other "incidents"....gone.

SteelCityBlue · 02-25-2014, 10:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnakePlissken

So much delicious OP fail here.

Your daughter will be fine. We have to pay for everybody's health insurance somehow.

The reason the military is being cut is pure ideology of YOUR party.

His ilk may have contributed to the problem but the military, NSA, Homeland security, et al is a ****ing racket that needs to be downsized.

NavyC5 · 02-26-2014, 4:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joecooool

Ryan,

They have to get rid of 25 people in her unit, and the list they put together was based on promotion dates, not issues. She doesn't have any or they wouldn't have just promoted her.

Perhaps of the 21 people on the list before her some of them have issues, but from what I understand, most do not. The job she has and the requirements for the security clearance weeds people out pretty quickly when issues develop.

The absurd thing about the whole situation is that they are still recruiting people for those jobs, processing their clearances and putting them through school. Why on earth would they do that when they are already going to have to let go of so many people?

And if you are not a screw up, why can't they let you just change your MOS? Wouldn't the Air Force rather have a trained person they know is competent rather than an unknown new trainee?

Don't take any of this personally, as you know I'm a vet too. That doesn't mean we can't get angry when we perceive an injustice being done.

Phil,

I understand where you're coming from and I'm not going to disagree that the entire process sucks. I hate having to get rid of folks.

That being said, your understanding of the process isn't 100%. It's pretty tricky and I've been dealing with it for 3 months to get the level of understanding I have. The reductions aren't based at the unit level. What is being done is individuals in certain career fields that are overmanned and basically being "racked and stacked". This is being done across the career field, not by squadron.

What each squadron has to do is rate their people and the CC then makes a recommendation to retain, consider retain, or don't retain. This information goes to a central board where the cuts will be made.

What you don't realize is before this process even happens there is another process that takes place that looks at folks with negative markers in their records. The vast majority of these people will probably not be retained.

So if the first round of cuts gets a career field to the target numbers, the second round won't take place.

So if you have career field of 100 and 10 need to go. The first board has 7 people with negative factors. Those folks are gone, as it should be. That leaves 3 left to cut. So AF wide the career field gets racked and stacked 1 to 93. The bottom three of those get cut.

Hopefully this clears some stuff up.

I'm happy to discuss the process in more detail with you to help you understand how it all works. Right now I have 56 Enlisted and 9 Officers in my squadrons that are facing the board.

Feel free to PM me and I'll shoot you my phone number. Just remember it's a 14 hour time difference to Japan.

And the reason we have to continue to let people into the same career field is to be able to maintain the career field years down the road.

NavyC5 · 02-26-2014, 4:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxAg

Sounds like it could be a way out for some folks who don't want to be there.

It is. People can also apply for early out and early retirement.

Bottom line, if the AF meets its number by voluntary separations, negative trend people and early retirements, the number of involuntary people leaving will drop dramatically and in some career fields, nobody could be forced out.

Bottom line, the process isn't perfect, but it's as fair as the AF can make it.

I'll give you an example. The AF just pushed up promotion testing for for E-5s. The reason being some career fields have E-5s on the chopping block but not E-6s. They move up testing to allow those E-5s that have a shot at making E-6 the chance to promote and not be separated.

Jeff '79 · 02-26-2014, 7:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by NavyC5

It is. People can also apply for early out and early retirement.

Bottom line, if the AF meets its number by voluntary separations, negative trend people and early retirements, the number of involuntary people leaving will drop dramatically and in some career fields, nobody could be forced out.

Bottom line, the process isn't perfect, but it's as fair as the AF can make it.

I'll give you an example. The AF just pushed up promotion testing for for E-5s. The reason being some career fields have E-5s on the chopping block but not E-6s. They move up testing to allow those E-5s that have a shot at making E-6 the chance to promote and not be separated.

And that's the definition of corporate downsizing.
Corporations with unions have to go about it a lot differently than non union shops, but either way, it is a must for a bloated organization to survive.
Berkshire Hathaway has a 10% profit increase mandate. If you need to eliminate positions to meet that mandate, then so be it, or you will lose your job.
It's about time that Uncle Sugar got around to downsizing, but ya, it's too bad that it took the back door route of the sequester to start it happening.
I have to give Obama credit for having the balls to do that because it's exactly what the country needs.
Human nature dictates that you hold on to what you have but after a while something's gotta give.
I just hope that it carries over to all other sections of the bloated .gov.

VatorMan · 02-26-2014, 8:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxAg

It won't carry over which is why he has no balls. If he really had a set, he would START with cutting "entitlement" crap first and the military last.

Face it- It wasn't military oriented people that elected him. WTF you think it would be different ?

RedLS1GTO · 02-26-2014, 8:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey Ghost

The only thing safe with the current administration are the social welfare programs. They won't cut a dollar related to them. The money that was in the military budget, NASA, etc...will be routed to Obamacare, and welfare programs.

Yep. ...and it's f**king pathetic that this is what we have become.