Crummy News for America --> Unemployment Rate back up to 9%

[Chris Fowler]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

Are you willing to drop the minimum wage

Absolutely. It's an artificial number that does nothing but make people feel better while lowering the value of the dollar every time we raise it.

[ChasC5]

Originally Posted by Chris Fowler

Absolutely. It's an artificial number that does nothing but make people feel better while lowering the value of the dollar every time we raise it.

There you go, compromise ... see how easy it is?

[Joecooool]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

This is part of it. I do agree that we need much higher import taxes.

At the same time we are taxing the living shit out of domestic companies, and increasing those taxes at an insane rate. Don't blame the corporations, blame the idiotic government that makes it a simple choice to leave.

Its a fallacy to say we are taxing the shit out of domestic corporations. There are so many loop holes that the largest company in the world, GE, paid no taxes last year.

Then you have massive agriculture companies that not only pay no taxes, they get subsidies. More than 20% of all profits generated by farms in this country are direct government subsidies.

Sure the corporate tax brackets exist, but there are so many loop holes that no companies are paying anywhere close to what you think they are.

Read this - http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/bu...y/03rates.html

[Joecooool]

Originally Posted by Chris Fowler

Absolutely. It's an artificial number that does nothing but make people feel better while lowering the value of the dollar every time we raise it.

Its not an artificial number to the millions of Americans that are paid minimum wage.

The less money a company pays them, the more tax dollars we will have to spend on basic social services.

And we need to lower the value of the dollar. Its the only way we will ever get the debt under control. Personally I'm in favor of a couple of years of some double digit inflation.

[ChasC5]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

Its not an artificial number to the millions of Americans that are paid minimum wage.

The less money a company pays them, the more tax dollars we will have to spend on basic social services.

And we need to lower the value of the dollar. Its the only way we will ever get the debt under control. Personally I'm in favor of a couple of years of some double digit inflation.

I never could understand the Republican Logic of squeezing money out of those who have none and then complaining about the ramifications and morals of desperate individuals. We see what this brings everyday all over the world … yet America is supposed to be different.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

Its a fallacy to say we are taxing the shit out of domestic corporations. There are so many loop holes that the largest company in the world, GE, paid no taxes last year.

...and GE is also one of the very few companies bringing thousands of jobs back to the US and investing well over a billion dollars into American plants in appliances alone. See how this works? It is about a LOT more than simple tax revenue.

In your opinion, which is better for America? GE paying ~100 million dollars in taxes, or employing somewhere near 160,000 Americans? You see the one line statement "GE didn't pay taxes" and you make all sorts of assumptions based on that.

How much tax income was generated by those 160,000 jobs? How much was generated by the sale of GE products? How much did the plants positively affect the communities that they are in? How many American companies does the GE business alone keep in business by buying raw material and parts?

Look at the big picture and it isn't quite so simple.

[ChasC5]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

...and GE is also one of the very few companies bringing thousands of jobs back to the US and investing well over a billion dollars into American plants in appliances alone. See how this works? It is about a LOT more than simple tax revenue.

In your opinion, which is better for America? GE paying ~100 million dollars in taxes, or employing somewhere near 160,000 Americans? You see the one line statement "GE didn't pay taxes" and you make all sorts of assumptions based on that.

How much tax income was generated by those 160,000 jobs? How much was generated by the sale of GE products? How much did the plants positively affect the communities that they are in? How many American companies does the GE business alone keep in business by buying raw material and parts?

Look at the big picture and it isn't quite so simple.

I think you just made a case as to why they don't require American Tax Payer Help ... they already have it under control.

[RedLS1GTO]

...and on a side note, it has been shown time and time again that "GE paid no taxes" is an ignorant statement at best.

Here is one pretty simple break down of it. If you really dig into it, you see more and more how misleading the original story really was. It was piss poor, misinformed journalism at it's finest. Of course people jumped all over it (Joecool apparently falls into that group) without actually being informed enough to really know what they were talking about.

The Washington Post

[Joecooool]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

...and on a side note, it has been shown time and time again that "GE paid no taxes" is an ignorant statement at best.

Here is one pretty simple break down of it. If you really dig into it, you see more and more how misleading the original story really was. It was piss poor, misinformed journalism at it's finest. Of course people jumped all over it (Joecool apparently falls into that group) without actually being informed enough to really know what they were talking about.

The Washington Post

They didn't pay any corporate income tax. Your article doesn't say any different.

[Joecooool]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

In your opinion, which is better for America? GE paying ~100 million dollars in taxes, or employing somewhere near 160,000 Americans? You see the one line statement "GE didn't pay taxes" and you make all sorts of assumptions based on that.

Both

[RetiredSFC 97]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

We live in a global economy and that most certainly isn't a "free market". You have countries like China and India with more than a billion people each with no minimum wage, environmental laws, or infrastructure to support. You have other countries with nationalized corporations like Citgo, and still others like Airbus with enormous government subsidies.

On top of that, how can we make the "atmosphere conductive to stay here" when over half the world's population is willing to work for less than a dollar a day?

Are you willing to drop the minimum wage, our environmental protections and everything else that makes this country great to be competitive with India and China?

To me this is a race to the bottom. It makes Wall Street rich and destroys the middle class. In the end it destroys America. Instead of racing to the bottom, I believe its better to force the other countries up to our standards.

The answer is to stop giving tax breaks to corporations that export the jobs overseas. We also need import taxes to protect American manufacturers. Sure, you might have to pay a few dollars more for a product but maybe your neighbor won't lose his job and go bankrupt.

Get rid of all taxes on corporations.

All it is a hidden tax on consumers. We are still the largest market in the world and they need us and would rather be here than in China anyway.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

They didn't pay any corporate income tax. Your article doesn't say any different.

Wow. You really don't have a clue about corporate tax laws, accounting, and finance do you?


Like I said. People jumped all over the headline without having any idea what they were actually talking about.

[Chris Fowler]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

Its not an artificial number to the millions of Americans that are paid minimum wage.

The less money a company pays them, the more tax dollars we will have to spend on basic social services.

And we need to lower the value of the dollar. Its the only way we will ever get the debt under control. Personally I'm in favor of a couple of years of some double digit inflation.

You raise minimum wage, you devalue the dollar, prices for basics go up, the poverty line goes up, a bunch of people get to feel better because they're "making more", but they're just as poor as they were before. But the left feels better because they "tried to help"...it's completely artificial. It does nothing to help and hurts in the long run.

And then you want to devalue the dollar more? You want double digit inflation? Wow...you really do feel for the guy making minimum wage...

[RetiredSFC 97]

Originally Posted by Chris Fowler

You raise minimum wage, you devalue the dollar, prices for basics go up, the poverty line goes up, a bunch of people get to feel better because they're "making more", but they're just as poor as they were before. But the left feels better because they "tried to help"...it's completely artificial. It does nothing to help and hurts in the long run.

And then you want to devalue the dollar more? You want double digit inflation? Wow...you really do feel for the guy making minimum wage...

You know what else it does I never hear anyone talking about?

It raises taxes on business by increasing their payroll tax. A little here a little there makes a buttload of cash.

[Chris Fowler]

Originally Posted by RetiredSFC 97

You know what else it does I never hear anyone talking about?

It raises taxes on business by increasing their payroll tax. A little here a little there makes a buttload of cash.

It raises the total cost of minimum wage employees, salary and taxes.

Of course, all of the business owners are capitalist pigs and could simply take all of the additional cost out of a few hours of their exorbitant salaries and keep all other costs the same...obviously.

[Joecooool]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Wow. You really don't have a clue about corporate tax laws, accounting, and finance do you?


Like I said. People jumped all over the headline without having any idea what they were actually talking about.

GE didn't pay any corporate income tax. Are you still trying to dispute this?

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

GE didn't pay any corporate income tax. Are you still trying to dispute this?

I never disputed that. Not once. Pay attention.

What I dispute is that you have any clue as to what that actually means.

[Will]

Originally Posted by ChasC5

President Clinton left a Budget surplus, not a Debt Surplus.

No, Newt Gingrich and the Conservatives balanced the budget, and dragged Clinton along kicking and screaming, accusing them of hating children, women, minorities, the elderly, etc.

BUT it was only balanced on paper. We added small amounts of debt in those years.

[RetiredSFC 97]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

GE didn't pay any corporate income tax. Are you still trying to dispute this?

No